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Turned Out Nice Again

The Moral case for Veganism

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My brother staged a lavish meat-laden BBQ yesterday in honour of the safe return of his 18 yo prodigal daughter from a gap year touring C. America, only to have her inform us that she has embraced Veganism on her travels, citing activist Gary Yourofsky as a persuasive influence and insisting we watch this film:

I can honestly say I have never before seen so many emotional triggers applied to an argument - Hitler, concentration camps, rape, murder etc. - which seem deliberately contrived to appeal to women.

My main objection to Veganism is that it involves abstracting ourselves from Nature (which is not sentimental) and denies our origins as a species.

Perhaps Humans having reached our current state of technological development should conform to super-Natural Moral standards but I see dangers in such progressive idealism. The movie Solaris (the Russian original)  intelligently tackled this theme suggesting that the endpoint of human alienation from nature is madness.

 

Edited by Turned Out Nice Again

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I'm pretty much a veggie - although do eat fish, so not really a veggie. A pretend veggie.

I don't give a fuck.

Vegans in my experience are some of the most fucking annoying moralistic finger wagging holier-than-though twats out there.

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1 hour ago, JFK said:

I'm pretty much a veggie - although do eat fish, so not really a veggie. A pretend veggie.

I don't give a fuck.

Vegans in my experience are some of the most fucking annoying moralistic finger wagging holier-than-though twats out there.

I hear your words brother!

I eat little meat, but don't feel obliged to lecture people on it.:CryBaby:

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Try this:  Life is life.   When you eat a plant you still destroy life.  By saying that plants don't count but animals do you are putting a hierarchical value to life.  You are saying that animals are a higher order of life than plants and when you refuse to eat animals (even though animals eat animals) then you are putting yourself higher than animals.  So all forms of vegetarianism are simply ways of saying that they are at the top of a hierarchical  system that they themselves have invented.   It is arrogance at its finest.  There is no part of nature that elevates one form of life above another.  Only man does that and vegetarians elevate themselves above all other humans.  The arrogant of the arrogant.  I would suggest they have demonstrated that they are really the lowest of the low.  They have no respect for the life of plants.  The rest of us see ourselves as part of nature they see themselves as above it.   

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5 hours ago, JFK said:

I'm pretty much a veggie - although do eat fish, so not really a veggie. A pretend veggie.

I don't give a fuck.

Vegans in my experience are some of the most fucking annoying moralistic finger wagging holier-than-though twats out there.

True, it doesn't apply to vegetarians who are fine but being a vegan seems to have the effect of making you humourless and patronising.

My funniest was a temp who mentioned she was a veggie, I was interested so asked her about it but she was evasive about it for some reason and I was only being polite so let it go.

She raised it again another day and it turned out she ate eggs, and fish, and lamb, and beef, and pork.

All she didn't eat was chicken and turkey.

So either don't bother mentioning it it just say you don't like chicken. Don't start claiming to be vegetarian!

 

Harry Hill in his "Fight!" section one time had "naughty vegetarians" and had Hitler taking on Heather Mills.

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5 hours ago, JFK said:

I'm pretty much a veggie - although do eat fish, so not really a veggie. A pretend veggie.

I don't give a fuck.

Vegans in my experience are some of the most fucking annoying moralistic finger wagging holier-than-though twats out there.

How many vegans do you actually know? I don't know any in real life. Yet everyone else seems to know plenty...  I blame the media. 

I'm not a vegan but the Holocaust connection is eerily accurate, ie the similarities. Among these are the use of actual cattle cars for transport and wood crates for housing, the cruel treatment and deception about impending slaughter, the processing efficiency and emotional detachment of the perpetrators, and the piles of assorted body parts. 

I respect vegans and it's something I would like to do one day. The only thing i don't like is the way that most vegans online appear to align themselves with extreme leftwing causes , and people on the right definitely aren't welcome. Again, I don't know any in real life. 

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I have no problems with vegans or vegetarians, each to their own. I don't mind eating animals. My biggest responsibility to animals (or any life as @SnowBird says) is to respect it and not abuse it or waste it. For animals, farm and kill it well, and eat it. I catch a lot of seafood and because of that we only eat meat about once a month.

People who know me often wonder why I don't give them any seafood. It is simply because in the past when I have done so, and I've then asked  'did you enjoy it?' I've found out find they never got around to eating it. So that was a wasted life.

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4 hours ago, Snow bird said:

Try this:  Life is life.   When you eat a plant you still destroy life.  By saying that plants don't count but animals do you are putting a hierarchical value to life.  You are saying that animals are a higher order of life than plants and when you refuse to eat animals (even though animals eat animals) then you are putting yourself higher than animals.  So all forms of vegetarianism are simply ways of saying that they are at the top of a hierarchical  system that they themselves have invented.   It is arrogance at its finest.  There is no part of nature that elevates one form of life above another.  Only man does that and vegetarians elevate themselves above all other humans.  The arrogant of the arrogant.  I would suggest they have demonstrated that they are really the lowest of the low.  They have no respect for the life of plants.  The rest of us see ourselves as part of nature they see themselves as above it.   

 Plants lack a central nervous system therefore have no pain receptors. Therefore i see no issues in eating plants. Ultimately one has to eat, and opt for the one that causes the least suffering. If that makes vegetarians arrogant then I'm afraid that is the most warped logic I've been presented with for a while! :Jumping:

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I had a mate who went vegan for about a year when I was in Uni.

In that time he went from a healthy looking guy into something resembling a shambling smackhead. He stopped and within a few months or so had returned almost to normal.

I don't really care about what someone chooses to eat or not to eat however vegans really can be some of the most tedious, morally posturing people on the planet, almost on a par with Jehovas Witnesses except more judgemental.

I've got very little time for them.

 

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I do agree with the view that taking a moral stance on the issue is placing human beings at the top of a hierarchy which simply doesn't exist. For as long as we're bombing each other to fuck, cutting people's heads off and generally being all rounds cunts, then as far as I'm concerned we're still animals and I see no reason not to eat like one.

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1 hour ago, Sgt Hartman said:

I had a mate who went vegan for about a year when I was in Uni.

In that time he went from a healthy looking guy into something resembling a shambling smackhead. He stopped and within a few months or so had returned almost to normal.

I don't really care about what someone chooses to eat or not to eat however vegans really can be some of the most tedious, morally posturing people on the planet, almost on a par with Jehovas Witnesses except more judgemental.

I've got very little time for them.

 

Sorry to sound like a stuck record but how many vegans do you know in real life and how did you meet them? I genuinely don't know any. I meet people who claim they know them and they're obnoxious etc. Would love to meet a vegan - maybe I need to attend a few ANTIFA protests.

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4 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

Sorry to sound like a stuck record but how many vegans do you know in real life and how did you meet them? I genuinely don't know any. I meet people who claim they know them and they're obnoxious etc. Would love to meet a vegan - maybe I need to attend a few ANTIFA protests.

I'm a vegetarian, and have been since I was a teenager. I vividly remember an encounter with a young lady of the vegan persuasion at a nightclub in my youth. 

A mutual aquatintence had told her I was a vegetarian, so she rushed over to talk with me enthusiastically about animal rights. When I told her that I wasn't bothered about animal rights, and just didn't like meat she took a step back and punched me in the face.

xD

 

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2 minutes ago, SpectrumFX said:

I'm a vegetarian, and have been since I was a teenager. I vividly remember an encounter with a young lady of the vegan persuasion at a nightclub in my youth. 

A mutual aquatintence had told her I was a vegetarian, so she rushed over to talk with me enthusiastically about animal rights. When I told her that I wasn't bothered about animal rights, and just didn't like meat she took a step back and punched me in the face.

xD

 

That's quite funny and would probably put me off them for life.

Thinking about it, a vegetarian (female) relative once told me that a (female) vegan acquaintance made a pass at her when drunk. She's now very anti-vegan.  xD

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2 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

That's quite funny and would probably put me off them for life.

Thinking about it, a vegetarian (female) relative once told me that a (female) vegan acquaintance made a pass at her when drunk. She's now very anti-vegan.  xD

The girl was very good looking. I should have just nodded and gone off a bit about fox hunting.

Oh well, we're all stupid when we're young xD

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I've noticed that Vegetarianism - even if initially adopted for health or taste reasons - almost always turns into religion or virtue signalling. I suppose if you are constantly patted on the back for your high moral character then it's difficult not to start to feeling holy and viewing non-veg food as Haram.

Edited by Turned Out Nice Again

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I don't mind vegans. Their public perception suffers because some vegans are preachy wankers, and they're the ones you notice because they're in your face.

It's a bit like the obvious tranny thing. Everybody thinks they can spot a tranny a mile off, because some are very obvious, but it's only the obvious ones you notice.

For example, I used to work with a vegan university professor who never brought up that he was vegan (I knew because somebody else told me). We were at an event once with a buffet lunch, and there was fuck all he could eat. We'd traveled to get there, and he'd had nothing to eat all day.

I watched him to see what he'd do, and he discreetly removed the slices of cheese from a sandwich and ate the rest. No fuss no bother, no drama.

 

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Just now, Turned Out Nice Again said:

I've noticed that Vegetarianism - even if initially adopted for health or taste reasons - almost always turns into religion or virtue signalling. I suppose if you are constantly patted on the back for your high moral character then it's difficult not to start to feel holy.

I usually just get passive-aggressive putdowns! I can't recall having my back patted. Others may differ!

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1 minute ago, Turned Out Nice Again said:

I've noticed that Vegetarianism - even if initially adopted for health or taste reasons - almost always turns into religion or virtue signalling. I suppose if you are constantly patted on the back for your high moral character then it's difficult not to start to feel holy.

I think it's just that you notice the virtue signallers more.

It's a common thing for people I've known for years to be surprised to discover that I'm vegitarian. They normally notice at events like weddings, where it's obvious I've got different food to everybody else.

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2 minutes ago, SpectrumFX said:

I don't mind vegans. Their public perception suffers because some vegans are preachy wankers, and they're the ones you notice because they're in your face.

It's a bit like the obvious tranny thing. Everybody thinks they can spot a tranny a mile off, because some are very obvious, but it's only the obvious ones you notice.

For example, I used to work with a vegan university professor who never brought up that he was vegan (I knew because somebody else told me). We were at an event once with a buffet lunch, and there was fuck all he could eat. We'd traveled to get there, and he'd had nothing to eat all day.

I watched him to see what he'd do, and he discreetly removed the slices of cheese from a sandwich and ate the rest. No fuss no bother, no drama.

Yes, that would be my test for non-religious vegetarianism - can your food have touched the forbidden fruit?

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It's all part of the late stage civilisation pathology. People denying their existence as animals, as part of nature and inseparable from nature. See: gender fluidity, antiracism, environmentalism, feminism.

These people aren't well. The trouble is that being vegan isn't enough. Animals die to make way for crops. Without people the habitat would be full of thriving wildlife. Veganism ends up being an extreme cult of misanthropy and an argument for suicide. 

Oh well, all the more bacon for me I suppose. 

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3 minutes ago, whitevanman said:

It's all part of the late stage civilisation pathology. People denying their existence as animals, as part of nature and inseparable from nature. See: gender fluidity, antiracism, environmentalism, feminism.

These people aren't well. The trouble is that being vegan isn't enough. Animals die to make way for crops. Without people the habitat would be full of thriving wildlife. Veganism ends up being an extreme cult of misanthropy and an argument for suicide. 

Oh well, all the more bacon for me I suppose. 

If anything, from what I know anyway, veganism could be an argument for preserving the future, rather than suicide. Without wanting to get into the global warming shit, animal farming produces many times more toxins and gases than non-animal farming. It also uses much less land and resources like water. Beef farming produces 80% of the world's methane, etc etc.

 

I feel a bit like Pinny in one of the anti-Islam threads, speaking into the void! xD

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2 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

If anything, from what I know anyway, veganism could be an argument for preserving the future, rather than suicide. Without wanting to get into the global warming shit, animal farming produces many times more toxins and gases than non-animal farming. It also uses much less land and resources like water. Beef farming produces 80% of the world's methane, etc etc.

 

I feel a bit like Pinny in one of the anti-Islam threads, speaking into the void! xD

The issue is that there are too many people for the world's population to live in 1st world style. And the 3rd world is experiencing 97% population growth.

You can address this as a "too many people" problem now, or kick the can down the road, making everything more "sustainable" by switching more people to vegitarian or insect based diets. Then when there's too many people for that you can go back to looking at the original (now much worse) too many people problem.

We're so fucked.

 

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When I became a vegetarian back in about 1996 I subscribed to a vegetarian society magazine which had recipes and commentary.

I remember reading a piece back then that said something like "By around 2040 almost everyone will be vegetarian, not through choice, but because there won't be enough land left to farm the animals thanks to population growth. This will in turn make meat so expensive that few will be able to afford it".

I didn't pay it that much attention at the time.

 

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As someone who pretty much agrees with what the vegans say, and eats a mostly vegan diet, I should really fight veganism's corner shouldn't I?

Maybe later today I'll lace up my gloves and go to battle ;)

(And I'll be expecting a total bollocking!)

Edited by JoeDavola

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1 hour ago, spunko2010 said:

Sorry to sound like a stuck record but how many vegans do you know in real life and how did you meet them? I genuinely don't know any. I meet people who claim they know them and they're obnoxious etc. Would love to meet a vegan - maybe I need to attend a few ANTIFA protests.

I've known four so far including the bloke above. One was a mate from uni, one was another mates (now ex) girlfriend, and the other were guys I worked relatively closely with. I've also met quite a few just as aquantances

Not exactly a whopping number I know but three out of four of those were pretty fundamentalist about it and the other wouldn't talk about it much ...until you asked him about his eating habits. Not long after that you'd wish you hadn't bothered.

I'd say it was influential in my mates girlfriend becoming his ex. She was almost impossible for cater for and would kick up an almighty song and dance if a restaurant didn't cater for her exact requirements. I was convinced she went to them just to kick up some shit. We had them round for dinner once and, despite doing my best, she fecking moaned about just about everything that was on the table and generally made the night miserable for everyone. 

As mentioned, it does tend to go hand in hand with some pretty far left views (though not always) and I find that tiresome at the best of times.

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