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Dual flush toilets - whoops


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Like the current generation of smart meters that are all going have to be ripped out in a few short years and replaced here is another nanny state eco initiative that is actually worse than useless.

It turns out that those dual flush toilets with their small cistern and inadequate flush are now wasting more water than they are saving because the mechanism, being more complicated than a simple flush, goes wrong much more often than the standard flush and acts like a tap left on.

As more traditional toilets are replaced the problem keeps getting worse.

Genius.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54326178

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42 minutes ago, Wahoo said:

It's been a known problem for years and years. The Euro mechanism get grit in the valves which results in them leaking and early replacement. Unlike the old fashioned British ball-valve method, which was virtually fault proof.

Hardly a problem in damp wet moron island though....surely ?

Having had direct experience of this I couldn’t agree more.

I have spent countless hours trying to repair the dual flush valve mechanisms in the toilets in our house after a few years regular use - due to degraded parts, broken / corroded seal etc. 

You end up replacing the whole part which costs more than the toilet. 

Nothing worse than being woken up by hearing the cistern filling up every hour or so at 3am in the morning.

Give me a ball-cock anytime.

 

1 minute ago, Vendetta said:
Edited by Vendetta
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55 minutes ago, Snark said:

They'll be reusing that article format a lot over the next 10+ years, as all the current trendy eco bollox stuff starts to go wrong.

Prior to this we had EWI / cladding which was wrapped around loads of social housing 2000 - 2015 and is already costing a fortune to take off and replace now that it has been shown to increase fire risk.

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Pretty standard, really.  

I'm sure that more than half the 'make the world better!' changes over the last 20 years have ended up making things worse.  A few examples:

  • Diesel.  They could have pushed LPG as a stopgap before ecars, but, no -- they encouraged everyone to drive diesels and made the problem far worse than if 'the average person' had stuck with petrol.
  • Recycling.  Some fuckwit thought that we should collect all that 'recycling' and then sending overseas for them to chuck in the river.  'The planet' would have been better off if we'd just continued shoving the stuff in big holes in the ground.
  • Plastic bags.  They ban plastic bags and people start using big thick bags or paper bags, each of which has a net higher carbon footprint.  Sure, there's less 'plastic bag rubbish', but that's a problem of far too many people being scum these days, not an intrinsic problem of plastic bags.

A couple of 'current solutions' for the future to sort out:

  • Driving in general.  We should be driving less, not giving high-mileage commuters a government grant to reduce their costs.  
  • Ecars in general.  it makes no sense to encourage very low mileage drivers (eg, pensioners) to buy ecars.  It'll probably end up that 'global badness' would be reduced if they just stuck with a small engined petrol car (well, LPG would be better, but they killed LPG in the UK).
  • Hydrogen in residential boilers -- it'll probably end up massively increasing leaks.
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Quote

But water is also lost by confusion over buttons. Style over substance has made many unclear which button does what.

Thames Water says in recent research as many as 50% of customers chose the wrong button - or pushed both.

Seriously, I thought I had pretty low expectations of my fellow man/woman. But it seems even I am overestimating their intelligence.

 

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I fitted new mechanisms in 4 toilets earlier this year as the old ones were contaminated with grit and never properly shut off the water. 2 of the new ones already have the same problem and I had to do some emergency plumbing at 2AM last week as one had stuck open and was literally pouring water down the drain.
They're great in theory but it takes next to nowt to cause problems.

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51 minutes ago, dgul said:

Pretty standard, really.  

I'm sure that more than half the 'make the world better!' changes over the last 20 years have ended up making things worse.  A few examples:

  • Diesel.  They could have pushed LPG as a stopgap before ecars, but, no -- they encouraged everyone to drive diesels and made the problem far worse than if 'the average person' had stuck with petrol.
  • Recycling.  Some fuckwit thought that we should collect all that 'recycling' and then sending overseas for them to chuck in the river.  'The planet' would have been better off if we'd just continued shoving the stuff in big holes in the ground.
  • Plastic bags.  They ban plastic bags and people start using big thick bags or paper bags, each of which has a net higher carbon footprint.  Sure, there's less 'plastic bag rubbish', but that's a problem of far too many people being scum these days, not an intrinsic problem of plastic bags.

A couple of 'current solutions' for the future to sort out:

  • Driving in general.  We should be driving less, not giving high-mileage commuters a government grant to reduce their costs.  
  • Ecars in general.  it makes no sense to encourage very low mileage drivers (eg, pensioners) to buy ecars.  It'll probably end up that 'global badness' would be reduced if they just stuck with a small engined petrol car (well, LPG would be better, but they killed LPG in the UK).
  • Hydrogen in residential boilers -- it'll probably end up massively increasing leaks.

Or, it might be simpler to end fractional reserve banking. The mechanism designed to promote never ending growth and over consumption.  

?

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2 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

Prior to this we had EWI / cladding which was wrapped around loads of social housing 2000 - 2015 and is already costing a fortune to take off and replace now that it has been shown to increase fire risk.

This is the 21st century in a nutshell, selling us crap we don't really need and making so unreliable that we have to keep replacing it.

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I've got a Grohe dual flush cistern in my upstairs bathroom. It was the most incredibly fiddly thing to fit as during installation a bit came loose because I turned it too much / did the wrong thing because the instructions were shit. Getting it back together ideally needed 3 tiny hypermobile hands. Not having 2 children with no bones in their arms I had to fuck about for hours and finally when I was about to rip the fucking thing off the wall I got it back together. 

I've looked and looked, checked and double checked and I can't see that there's any frigging difference whether I press either or both buttons. It looks like the same amount of water comes out regardless 

Edited by the gardener
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8 minutes ago, onlyme said:

Old fashioned with a twist the Dudley unit is very good, has a pull out pin that allows you to swap out the siphon internals in seconds.

Whole blue section pops off, no demounting the bottom flange / stem. If you have built in / tiled over etc I;d consider this or something like it essential.

image.thumb.png.b3ca286f7beea1e35fe43e3730b460e4.png  

I use these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0060X5Q0A/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_4pWCFbPTAKNHW

It has the overflow pipe built in so just overflows into the toilet bowl in the event of a fault, and you can just unclip the moving parts section and replace in about 20 seconds when they eventually go wrong. I bought 6 spares and have five remaining after 12 years, so I reckon they’ll see me out if we don’t move house.

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7 hours ago, Wahoo said:

It's been a known problem for years and years. The Euro mechanism get grit in the valves which results in them leaking and early replacement. Unlike the old fashioned British ball-valve method, which was virtually fault proof.

Hardly a problem in damp wet moron island though....surely ?

I've just replaced my old syphon system with one of the Euro valves.

I didn't want a Euro one (in fact,  I had to grind a new hole in my cistern to accommodate it)..   but some bright spark previous owner plumbed in our toilet overflow to terminate in our kitchen directly above the oven.   As I discovered when cooking dinner one day and water started pouring out of the oven (proper WTFing hell! moment).

After fixing the float valve,  I decided I didn't fancy a repeat so swapped the syphon for a Euro one simply because they overflow down the bowl rather than into the overflow (or kitchen in my case).

Good to know my toilet nightmare saga isn't complete and can look forward to the prospect of a faulty valve in two years time :/

At least we're not on a meter.

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6 hours ago, Boglet said:

Seriously, I thought I had pretty low expectations of my fellow man/woman. But it seems even I am overestimating their intelligence.

 

Nah, the design is confusing with nothing but two buttons, one large, one small, and the small one looking like it extends the large one. So is the following correct, in which case maybe not that confusing afterall:

1. Press the large button alone for normal flush. i.e. it's brown so flush it down.

2. Press the large and small button together for a maximum flush. i.e. after a pebble dashing or giant log.

3. Press the small button alone for a smaller than normal flush. i.e. it's yellow but don't want to let it mellow.

Maybe it's a generational thing where those that were toilet trained with these don't know what the fuss is about. Sort of like how the three seashells system in Demolition Man confused anyone waking up in that future. xD

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