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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-54339973
 

“The investigators also said the product's CE mark, normally associated with having passed rigorous European safety standards, was misleading.

Some Chinese companies use a similar CE mark to designate "China export".

Others simply fake the safety mark because there is no central database to check whether it has been verified and it can be self-declared by companies.

"Companies get away with it until they don't," said Clever Compliance chief executive Max Stralin.”


How does this get managed just through re-calls or luck ? I understood some faking but Hadn’t realised China Export was a thing! Had a few dodgy electrical items when you know look at thinking this thing looks dangerous.

 

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7 hours ago, Ash4781b said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-54339973
 

“The investigators also said the product's CE mark, normally associated with having passed rigorous European safety standards, was misleading.

Some Chinese companies use a similar CE mark to designate "China export".

Others simply fake the safety mark because there is no central database to check whether it has been verified and it can be self-declared by companies.

"Companies get away with it until they don't," said Clever Compliance chief executive Max Stralin.”


How does this get managed just through re-calls or luck ? I understood some faking but Hadn’t realised China Export was a thing! Had a few dodgy electrical items when you know look at thinking this thing looks dangerous.

 

Very slight difference in the distance between the C and the E IIRC.

CE marking has been a disaster, shutting down small scale start ups with £1000s of compliance costs and testing per product whereas the Chinese just ignored it and carry one or print an A4 compliance  cert and a  few CE labels.

Edited by onlyme
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Having bought an extension lead off Amazon a few years back and then getting it condemned by my PAT tester I’m careful with my purchases especially the electrical shite off the likes of Amazon and Wayfair.

I rather stupidly purchased some hair clippers for son to take to uni but when they arrived I knew I’d made a mistake, no kite mark, questionable plug. I sent them back and bought some Wahl ones in Argos. 
 

I didn’t like the idea of him leaving them on charge in his student accommodation. The thought that these could be a fire risk and put not only his but others in danger made me think we should be more wary of so much cheap electronic products without any safety standards.

Edited by Battenberg
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21 minutes ago, Battenberg said:

Having bought an extension lead off Amazon a few years back and then getting it condemned by my PAT tester

I'm surprised you have your personal electrical equipment PAT tested.

Especially something like an extension cord.   There's not much too them.  What did it fail on ?

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2 hours ago, onlyme said:

Very slight difference in the distance between the C and the E IIRC.

CE marking has been a disaster, shutting down small scale start ups with £1000s of compliance costs and testing per product whereas the Chinese just ignored it and carry one or print an A4 compliance  cert and a  few CE labels.

Real-CE-mark-vs-Fake-CE-mark.thumb.jpg.dc2bd9b254d824c594e6f5c6e1384ba4.jpg

 

The similarity is probably accidental, and in any case it's important for all right-thinking Western consumers to remember that not all Chinese companies do this.

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1 hour ago, Libspero said:

I'm surprised you have your personal electrical equipment PAT tested.

Especially something like an extension cord.   There's not much too them.  What did it fail on ?

No it was for my business. There were so many things wrong, in fact he still uses it to teach people what to look out for. Fuses are a big problem. They aren’t the correct size/length. It also had a really long cable that wound inside. That was a bit dodgy as I would get twisted inside. The plug holes are supposed to have shutters, there were none. I went back to buying Belkin ones. 
 

It was this sort of thing.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DoubleYI-Extension-Retractable-Protector-Protection-19-W-12/dp/B07SM8818T/ref=sr_1_9?crid=36FQXP1DJAJIB&dchild=1&keywords=tower+extension+lead&qid=1601587675&sprefix=Tower+ext%2Caps%2C151&sr=8-9

Edited by Battenberg
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50 minutes ago, Battenberg said:

No it was for my business. There were so many things wrong, in fact he still uses it to teach people what to look out for. Fuses are a big problem. They aren’t the correct size/length. It also had a really long cable that wound inside. That was a bit dodgy as I would get twisted inside. The plug holes are supposed to have shutters, there were none. I went back to buying Belkin ones. 
 

It was this sort of thing.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DoubleYI-Extension-Retractable-Protector-Protection-19-W-12/dp/B07SM8818T/ref=sr_1_9?crid=36FQXP1DJAJIB&dchild=1&keywords=tower+extension+lead&qid=1601587675&sprefix=Tower+ext%2Caps%2C151&sr=8-9

So it is 'CE Certified' and still on sale?

Amazon should be held responsible.

Then there is the issue of pooling genuine and counterfeit goods at Amazon.

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7 hours ago, Battenberg said:

 The plug holes are supposed to have shutters, there were none. I went back to buying Belkin ones. 

Interesting.

I know that’s part of UK plug design (I think we’re the only country in the world to do it),  but with CE being an EU directive I’m surprised it’s covered. None of the EU sockets have them o.O

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9 minutes ago, Mr Miyagi said:

You self certify that you have met all relevant standards when you place a CE mark on a product there is no application to any official body, the system is open to abuse and has been abused. Trust me there is not the capacity in the system to police product safety standards. 

Others might disagree,  but I actually think that’s a good thing.  If everything had to be independently tested the cost of goods would increase considerably and the choice shrink to nothing.   

Most home electrics are pretty low power,   and anyone plugging multiple heaters into a cheap Chinese multi-adaptor probably shouldn’t be qualified to own one in the first place. o.O 

 

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2 hours ago, Libspero said:

Interesting.

I know that’s part of UK plug design (I think we’re the only country in the world to do it),  but with CE being an EU directive I’m surprised it’s covered. None of the EU sockets have them o.O

No, it's part of the UK socket design. The first shuttered socket was a UK design in 1893 by Compton, and shielding the plug power pins with sleeves was first done in about 1905.

Earthed plugs and sockets appeared around 1910.

The present UK 13A socket and fused plug appeared in the 1940;s. Originally it didn't have the sleeved pins, and I am not sure if they were originally shuttered; they probably were. The Earth pin is longer and operates the shutter, and makes contact first.

About 50 countries use the UK design, mostly remnants of the Empire, where electricity was properly done with a stiff upper earth pin.

Those stupid plastic socket guards that plug in to protect children are completely pointless.

 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Happy Renting said:

About 50 countries use the UK design, mostly remnants of the Empire, where electricity was properly done with a stiff upper earth pin.

I can't think I've ever been to another country where they have a shuttered plug socket.  50.   Really?   o.O

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49 minutes ago, MrPin said:

Many countries still use the older round pin British plugs, like India, and ZA.

Should have kept them like that in the UK.  Much more aesthetically pleasing. Still 240v between the live pin and ground.  And a fuse. That's real man's electricity. Not like European 110v between  pin and ground. Or even worse those fannies in America with their pissy 55v between each pin and ground. 

When you get a shock in UK you know you've been shocked. 

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31 minutes ago, Poseidon said:

Should have kept them like that in the UK.  Much more aesthetically pleasing. Still 240v between the live pin and ground.  And a fuse. That's real man's electricity. Not like European 110v between  pin and ground. Or even worse those fannies in America with their pissy 55v between each pin and ground. 

When you get a shock in UK you know you've been shocked. 

Strictly speaking, it's 240v between Live and Neutral. Neutral is notionally at Earth voltage, but they are separate.

It's to do with the fact that the mains supply is 3-phase, with only one phase going into each dwelling normally. The 3 phases share a common neutral, and when the supply to different phases is about the same, the currents cancel out and the neutral is at around earth potential. The advantage of this is that the current in the neutral conductor is consequently low and so does not require a thick expensive conductor from the power station.

Edited by Happy Renting
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5 hours ago, Libspero said:

Interesting.

I know that’s part of UK plug design (I think we’re the only country in the world to do it),  but with CE being an EU directive I’m surprised it’s covered. None of the EU sockets have them o.O

To be fair to you, the shuttering IS also part of the plug design, in that the longer earth pin on the plug is designed to open the shutter.

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From Wikipedia:

Quote

Counterfeits and non-standard plugs

Plugs which do not meet BS 1363 often find their way into the UK. Some of these are legal in the country they are manufactured in, but do not meet BS 1363 – these can be brought into the UK by unsuspecting travellers, or people purchasing electrical goods online. They can also be purchased through many UK electrical component distributors. There are also counterfeit plugs which appear to meet the standards (and are marked as such) but do not in fact comply. Legislation[18] was introduced, with the last revision in 1994, to require plugs sold to meet the technical standard. Counterfeit products are regularly seized when found, to enforce the safety standards and to protect the approval marks and trademarks of imitated manufacturers.[61] The pressure group PlugSafe[62] reported in March 2014 that since August 2011 "thousands" of listings of products including illegal plugs had been removed from the UK sections of the websites eBay and Amazon Marketplace. The UK Electrical Safety Council expressed shock at the magnitude of the problem and published a video[63] showing a plug exploding due to a counterfeit BS 1362 fuse. The Institution of Engineering and Technology also published information on the extent of the problem with on-line retailers, many advertising replacement cord sets, mobile device chargers, and travel adaptors fraudulently marked BS 1363, and mentioning the same sites.[64]

 

 

Edited by Happy Renting
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