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It's all about shame, or lack of it.

"Do you have no shame?"

I was trying to think what the underlying commonality is that links posters here.

The modus operandi of the vast majority of causes appears to be to shame you into behaving as desired or thinking as desired.

Is there a cause that doesn't work the shame angle?

And its not new, religion is built on shame, parents trying to shame their kids into behaving, charity collectors, social influencers, all working at our fear of standing out.

Are there other traits that link the posters here?

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Compared to many forums what is most obvious about DOSBODS is the quality of posters. Sadly, very poor, and getting worse if anything. If I had to pinpoint one failing, it would have to be t

Slagging off Trump is just a shibboleth that gains you access; it's no different really to owning the right motorbike or collecting antique radios, or morris dancing. If the chips were down, you would

If you are proposing that Dosbodders don't feel shame, I think you are wrong. Everyone on here, even the atheists, says they have a moral code, be it personal or institutional, and the feeling you get

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Think that's very true at surface and the way a lot of society functions.

Guess here you can say cunt many times and whatever the fuck you like.  Especially as you can't elsewhere as it's often taboo or "too shameful".  Example being most politics or most of the groupthink you see at a local level.

My local Reddit is an example there is a clear line you have to go down... As long as your helping source sourdough or bemoaning all the people not sociol distancing all good.

Guy got shot down earlier in year for suggesting people pick up bit of extra food from seeing what was happening in Italy, then later for giving link to how to make a face covering.  Few weeks later all virtue signalling about social distance and mask wearing.

Don't visit often as a result but did a rare post the other day as they were all laughing at some local rapper (I don't like Scottish rappers accent full stop btw).  The YouTube video actually had 10k plus views so obviously not completely random.

Guy was just talking about stuff around him, gangs, poverty depression.  Definitely didn't fit into their neat little middle class Dom.  I replied a bit more politely as such haven't checked again but was getting the clever clogs commenting that it wasn't just that but his ryhme or beatflow was bad... I don't think that was why they were having a friend day laughing at him though.

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17 minutes ago, Dogtania said:

they were having a friend day laughing at him though.

Groups often ridicule outsiders; it is part of the glue that holds the group together. I'm not into football, but I imagine something similar holds fans togther, although it could be ridicule of your own team. It could also be clothing, politics, environmental concerns, or motorbikes. Basically, however much we don't like the idea, humans are still tribal.

Edited by Nippy
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1 minute ago, Nippy said:

Groups often ridicule outsiders; it is part of the glue that holds the group together. I'm not into football, but I imagine someting similar holds fans togther, although it could be ridicule of your own team. It could also be clothing, politics, environmental concerns, or motorbikes. Basically, however much we don't like the idea, humans are still tribal.

Agree completely and was thinking of saying it's something probably goes way back the evolutionary timeline.

But was just so vapid/ vacous on there.  Politics verboten unless of course ripping trump.  Government advice back in march couldn't be questioned.  Sure it's a group here etc (bunch of clever clogs IMO) but don't think stuff like virtue signalling is at the forefront or holds much sway.  (Yes probably everyone to an extent sites now and then - probably evolutionary again but seems to have really reared its head recently - maybe back in 1930's Germany was similar until it got blurry and then turned head over and praising Hitler was the correct thing to do).

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Its rare I choose to stand out. I get my views when needed accross. I have no major urge or drive to get others to believe or see what I do. Exeperience shows the discussion gets clogged down right at the start with a variety of internal/external censoring mechanisms. Leading to shame I guess. I guess those barriers are some time hit here although when it gets heated my view is that its based on differing opinions about facts. The fiery moments not being driven by a wrong from some moral basis ( although it does happen).

Limiting factors for me; I work with on the whole quite left wing people. I work for myself and as big and balsy to have a pair is, I have a family to support. They could see me with no work and worse. General lack of reading by those out there. I have no problem in waiting a while, dropping hints and so in, to see if someone is open minded. Thats it. To me, just being open minded.

The advantage of this site many of those first hurdles are avoided. I think people are on the whole mature and can negotitate these barriers or forms of control leading to a richer indeph discussion.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

Parents condition children not to stand out as we are pack or herd animals. Standing out in the tribe was a bad thing for much of our history. It continued right through to my childhood years through organisations like the various churches, the scouting movement, etc.

 

and yet we're very individualistic compared to the Japanese who have sayings such as the nail that sticks out gets hammered down and the tall poppy gets cut down

first time I've heard the german phrase speech is silver, silence is golden, maybe explains a lot

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/119705/are-there-counterpart-english-expressions-to-japanese-proverb-the-nail-that-po

I wondered at that time if this expression is unique to the Japanese collectivity-oriented patterns of thinking, which Shichihei Yamamoto defined as ‘rice-growers’ mindset’ to simply mimic what others do without having your own thought - when the neighboring farmer starts planting rice, you plant rice. When your neighbor crops rice, you crop yours. When the neighboring farmer starts to repair a thatched roof made of rice straw, you mend the thatch of your cottage.

In the famous book, “Japanese and Jew ” written by the pseudonym of Isaiah Ben-Dasan, Yamamoto argues basic differences of the ways of thinking between the Japanese and the Jew - agricultural people vs pastoral people in his definition.

We have a lot of proverbs to teach us to be meek, or flexible at best, such as “泣く子と地頭には勝てぬ‐You cannot argue with a crying child and your magistrate,” “長いものには巻かれろ- It’s better to be obedient to those in power,” “喬木は風に弱し-A tall tree is weak to a gale,” “柳に風折れなし‐Willows don’t break in storms (because they have branches and leaves supple enough to fend off strong wind).”

“触らぬ神に祟りなし‐Don’t get involved (with the problem), and you won’t get a slap from God,” and “Silence is gold (I think this is a Japanese version of German proverb, 'Reden ist Silber, Schweigen ist Gold' transplanted in the Meiji era in late 19 century),” can be classified into the same “Don’t be conspicuous” lesson group.

I understand westerners value assertiveness based on individualism against oriental collectivism, and wonder if the concept like ’出る釘は打たれる- the nail that pops up is hammered down,’ is viable at all in the western societies as a matter of comperative culture.

Edited by ashestoashes
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Shame or guilt ?

Shame based cultures are all about preserving face.

Western culture with its Christian roots is sin based. In the classic cycle sin leads to guilt which triggers repentance and finally redemption. 

Current shaming does not really fit into either category . It wants to use the concept of sin and guilt but does not really admit the concept of God and redemption. In many ways it is a culture created by social media that wants to create group identity for insiders by excluding outsiders by mandating cultural norms. It actually depends on exclusiveness and the concept of the other. That is why so many SJW tropes are indistinguishable from avowed racist ideologies of the past. In many ways it is a case that “our enemies become ourselves”. The determination of a shaming culture to attack certain things they claim to despise ultimately makes them come to resemble that which they seek to denigrate. For example the idea that racism can be fought by creating black only institutions that end up replicating elements of Jim Crowe USA or apartheid South Africa.

Edited by Virgil Caine
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8 minutes ago, ashestoashes said:

and yet we're very individualistic compared to the Japanese who have sayings such as the nail that sticks out gets hammered down and the tall poppy gets cut down

first time I've heard the german phrase speech is silver, silence is golden, maybe explains a lot

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/119705/are-there-counterpart-english-expressions-to-japanese-proverb-the-nail-that-po

I wondered at that time if this expression is unique to the Japanese collectivity-oriented patterns of thinking, which Shichihei Yamamoto defined as ‘rice-growers’ mindset’ to simply mimic what others do without having your own thought - when the neighboring farmer starts planting rice, you plant rice. When your neighbor crops rice, you crop yours. When the neighboring farmer starts to repair a thatched roof made of rice straw, you mend the thatch of your cottage.

In the famous book, “Japanese and Jew ” written by the pseudonym of Isaiah Ben-Dasan, Yamamoto argues basic differences of the ways of thinking between the Japanese and the Jew - agricultural people vs pastoral people in his definition.

We have a lot of proverbs to teach us to be meek, or flexible at best, such as “泣く子と地頭には勝てぬ‐You cannot argue with a crying child and your magistrate,” “長いものには巻かれろ- It’s better to be obedient to those in power,” “喬木は風に弱し-A tall tree is weak to a gale,” “柳に風折れなし‐Willows don’t break in storms (because they have branches and leaves supple enough to fend off strong wind).”

“触らぬ神に祟りなし‐Don’t get involved (with the problem), and you won’t get a slap from God,” and “Silence is gold (I think this is a Japanese version of German proverb, 'Reden ist Silber, Schweigen ist Gold' transplanted in the Meiji era in late 19 century),” can be classified into the same “Don’t be conspicuous” lesson group.

I understand westerners value assertiveness based on individualism against oriental collectivism, and wonder if the concept like ’出る釘は打たれる- the nail that pops up is hammered down,’ is viable at all in the western societies as a matter of comperative culture.

 

Who was it who said, about Japan and World War Two, that the Japanese people could not do anything as individuals so they went mad en masse.

One of the historians said that in The World At War.

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13 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

 

Who was it who said, about Japan and World War Two, that the Japanese people could not do anything as individuals so they went mad en masse.

One of the historians said that in The World At War.

most were descended from peasants who could get their head cut off if they looked at a samurai the wrong way, so a certain conformity developed

visited Japan in the 90s and just couldn't get used to the lack of individuality, took me a while to recover as it was such a culture shock. There's a veneer of westernisation, but then there's a culture you're just never going to understand.

Did have occasions when on trains in rural areas where people wouldn't sit next to me  

Edited by ashestoashes
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20 minutes ago, Virgil Caine said:

It wants to use the concept of sin and guilt but does not really admit the concept of God and redemption.

It's seems to me noticable that BLM consider that there can be no such thing as forgiveness, and that white guilt will pass down the generations for ever. Despite this, people still have to engage in sisyphean atoning for the unforgivable wrong.

20 minutes ago, Virgil Caine said:

the other

The other is a technical term that is frequently used in sociology. Have you a background in this? You know you can confess your sins to us and you will receive full forgiveness.

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9 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

Compared to many forums what is most obvious about DOSBODS is the quality of posters.

Sadly, very poor, and getting worse if anything.

If I had to pinpoint one failing, it would have to be that many posters do not have a TV Licence.

Not being able to watch BBC News inevitably results in them being uninformed, or worse, misinformed.

It's obvious that many on here are brainwashed by fake news on social media and the internet.

I'm one of the few on here that has a TV Licence.

I can watch fully trained journalists and experienced correspondents reporting live on the ground, from all across the globe.

This is why I am able to correct many of the false opinions posted, and hopefully have helped educate everyone.  

  :)

 

 

 

You almost had me there. Couldnt stop laughing!

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16 minutes ago, Nippy said:

It's seems to me noticable that BLM consider that there can be no such thing as forgiveness, and that white guilt will pass down the generations for ever. Despite this, people still have to engage in sisyphean atoning for the unforgivable wrong.

Yes, it's like the fall of Adam and Eve isn't it. Original sin.

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39 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

 

Who was it who said, about Japan and World War Two, that the Japanese people could not do anything as individuals so they went mad en masse.

One of the historians said that in The World At War.

Thought provoking comment about Japan from a recent podcast.  We were very much aligned an the compared naval forces were a dominating power in the world. With the recent early / first trade agreement with Japan wonder how symbolic this is and whether they are being seen as a crucial trading partner and ally going forward, history often not repeating but rhyming and all that.   

 

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41 minutes ago, ashestoashes said:

Did have occasions when on trains in rural areas where people wouldn't sit next to me  

It happens in the cities, too. They would stand rather than sit adjacent to you.  I reckon they are wary or scared because they see so few Westerners about; even the young children hide behind mum.

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1 hour ago, onlyme said:

Thought provoking comment about Japan from a recent podcast.  We were very much aligned an the compared naval forces were a dominating power in the world. With the recent early / first trade agreement with Japan wonder how symbolic this is and whether they are being seen as a crucial trading partner and ally going forward, history often not repeating but rhyming and all that.   

 

 

We were very close allies with Japan in the late 1800's and early 1900's. Japan saw us as a counter-balance to US expansion in the Pacific. Likewise we saw Japan as a much needed ally against a US that, as it expanded across the Caribbean and the Pacific, saw the British Empire standing in its way.

The Japanese navy took a lot of things from the Royal Navy - traditions, ranks, even uniforms and used numerous tactical and strategy books by Royal Navy captains and admirals in how to conduct modern naval warfare operations, not least for how to attack Pearl Harbour.

Likewise, before Japan had the capability of building its own warships it bought warships from the United Kingdom. It was a combination of all these that led the Japanese navy to score some impressive victories over the Russian navy in the final decade or two of the tsars.

Edited by The Masked Tulip
typo, found one, can't be arsed looking for more.
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2 minutes ago, Nippy said:

It happens in the cities, too. They would stand rather than sit adjacent to you.  I reckon they are wary or scared because they see so few Westerners about; even the young children hide behind mum.

 

Experiment. Next time you are sat on a bus or train and someone enters looking for a seat wave at them. Implore them to come over and sit beside you. Tell them that you can have a lovely chat about whatever... Prince Harry, Trump, UFO's.

Make a note of how many times people then sit beside you xD

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