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Alcohol duty review : Call for evidence


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Now we have left the EU we are going to review our "arguably outdated" Alcohol Duty. Somehow I cannot see it getting any cheaper.

Currently duty is charged on a few set bands of alcohol strength but would you support a "strength escalator"?

Container size could be used to help pubs pay less but charge more for alcohol sold in supermarkets:

Quote

In Australia, beer pays different duty rates depending on the size of the container (with containers over 48 litres paying less duty) and whether the container is designed to connect to a pressurised gas system. This would indirectly benefit pubs, bars etc who can make use of these systems.

Where did this lot go?:

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Since publication of the HMRC Alcohol Strategy in 2010 to the end of 2018-19, 77 million litres of alcohol with a duty value in excess of £155 million have been seized

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/alcohol-duty-review-call-for-evidence?

 

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We have a higher level in Wales, causing supermarkets in Wales to lose out on whole 'big shop' grocery trips, as shoppers cross into England to buy cheaper drinks.

Similar to people in England travelling to mainland Europe for the same purpose.

Welsh government denies this happens.

Yet at the same time they are trying to pull air passengers across the border to Cardiff airport by lowering APD compared to flying from Bristol.

 

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1 minute ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

We have a higher level in Wales, causing supermarkets in Wales to lose out on whole 'big shop' grocery trips, as shoppers cross into England to buy cheaper drinks.

Similar to people in England travelling to mainland Europe for the same purpose.

Welsh government denies this happens.

Yet at the same time they are trying to pull air passengers across the border to Cardiff airport by lowering APD compared to flying from Bristol.

 

No we don't.

We have Minimum Price for Alcohol which is not Alcohol Duty. The extra we pay doesn't go to the governbankment, it's not a tax. It goes to retailers.

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1 minute ago, Democorruptcy said:

No we don't.

We have Minimum Price for Alcohol which is not Alcohol Duty. The extra we pay doesn't go to the governbankment, it's not a tax. It goes to retailers.

Nobody if anybody knows that.

We just believe the Welsh government is making us pay more for Tyskie.

Please don't challenge us with facts and truth.

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2 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

Nobody if anybody knows that.

We just believe the Welsh government is making us pay more for Tyskie.

Please don't challenge us with facts and truth.

There was some modelling done before Scotland brought it in:

Quote

 

MUP is not a tax. It will be a condition of a licence that the holder of that licence does not sell a unit of alcohol below a certain price. That price is set to be 50p.

As such, any extra money from MUP will go to the licensed premises, whether it is a pub, club or supermarket.

The Scottish Government’s modelling of the policy looked at the impact on revenue and predicted that – with a 50p per unit price – revenue to off-trade retailers (i.e. shops) would increase by £41m per annum, but would fall by £7m for on-trade retailers (i.e. pubs/clubs).

As such, it is only the off trade sector that is expected to actually gain any revenue, although whether this will translate into profit is not yet known. This is because the modelling did not look at the response of the whole industry to the policy, including how wholesalers and producers will respond.

https://spice-spotlight.scot/2018/04/16/minimum-pricing-for-alcohol-a-frequently-asked-question/

 

 

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It's a difficult area.  I link to the current rates which first split out into four categories - beer, cider, spirits, wine - and then in bands by strength within each of these.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rates-and-allowance-excise-duty-alcohol-duty/alcohol-duty-rates-from-24-march-2014

As a beer or lager I'm not unhappy at the current level of taxation given that I buy it from Lidl or Aldi or brew it myself. Probably 50:50 over the course of a year.  Pubs are so prohibitively expensive that my nights out drinking more than one or two pints are now maybe two or three times a year when it used to be two or three times a week.

I would say that the best move would be to reduce the duty on pub beer sales given the big hit the sector is taking at the moment from the government's own actions.

If they instead whack up supermarket beer then they are going to find that a lot more people start homebrewing.

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The other change is for us to buy more expensive spirits, wines, and beers, rather than the cheapest we sometimes bought previously.

I'm not referring to the Buckfast (is that exempt ?) or White Lightning type ciders, but to £4 bottles of wine which now cost around £5 (£4.69 is one popular choice, a TESCO Chilean Merlot).

When buying 24 bottles (4 boxes of 6) it's a saving of around £20 I guess.

I don't really drink much so it doesn't really bother me, but the elderly neighbours I (used to before lockdown) take for supermarket trips, can tell you the price of everything to the nearest penny.

They rage against the Welsh government for pushing up prices.

It's surprising how small the change in pricing can be to achieve a change in behaviour.

It's also evident that the changed behaviour is not always as predicted.

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1 minute ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

Alternatively grabbing a free Go Cup refill from a sanitiser fountain.

One place I worked had an arm that helped the homeless - hostels, move on flats - and they had to take out the hand sanitiser after realising that the reason for their running out so quickly was that people were drinking them :D

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14 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

The other change is for us to buy more expensive spirits, wines, and beers, rather than the cheapest we sometimes bought previously.

I'm not referring to the Buckfast (is that exempt ?) or White Lightning type ciders, but to £4 bottles of wine which now cost around £5 (£4.69 is one popular choice, a TESCO Chilean Merlot).

When buying 24 bottles (4 boxes of 6) it's a saving of around £20 I guess.

I don't really drink much so it doesn't really bother me, but the elderly neighbours I (used to before lockdown) take for supermarket trips, can tell you the price of everything to the nearest penny.

They rage against the Welsh government for pushing up prices.

It's surprising how small the change in pricing can be to achieve a change in behaviour.

It's also evident that the changed behaviour is not always as predicted.

ITV Wales did a piece on MUP in Wales last week. Totally biased governbankment type propaganda.

"The days of people buying huge amounts of cheap alcohol are over" as if everybody who drinks is an alki

"10% of people have changed their habits" that should be 90% haven't

A small brewery owner who thought it was great because other places had to charge as much as him!

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6 minutes ago, Democorruptcy said:

ITV Wales did a piece on MUP in Wales last week. Totally biased governbankment type propaganda.

"The days of people buying huge amounts of cheap alcohol are over" as if everybody who drinks is an alki

"10% of people have changed their habits" that should be 90% haven't

A small brewery owner who thought it was great because other places had to charge as much as him!

Yes; MUP is absolutely crap.

Joe Average loses out because they have to pay more for one of life's pleasures when they weren't causing any problem in the first place.

The problem is hardcore alcoholics and it should be obvious to the meanest intelligence that you are not going to stop them drinking through increasing the price of alcohol because they are addicted to it.  Make it too expensive and they will join the drug addicts in mugging and stealing to fund their habit.

I don't disagree with alcohol duty at all; but MUP is simply stupid.

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46 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

If they instead whack up supermarket beer then they are going to find that a lot more people start homebrewing.

Or just stop drinking as much.  The reason they haven’t already increased it is not because they’re “being nice”..  it’s because the price is set at the level the market will stand to maximise tax revenue.

They should really encourage people to home brew anyway..  think of the green credentials,  no more waste,  all those bottles being washed and re-used multiple times.  But despite their drive for “greener lifestyles” it never seems to get much of a mention.  Funny that..

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