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The European Spreadsheet Risks Interest Group


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I disagree. I pretty much expect fuckwittery like this when dealing with any large organisation - but especially a government department. It is absolutely par for the course.    

Over the years, various governments have had a crack at reforming the NHS. They all fail. I firmly believe that it is fundamentally impossible to run a very large organisation in an efficien

The whole covid lark is now actually starting to feel like I'm in a circular reference anyway.

https://order-order.com/2020/10/05/spreadsheet-capacity-limit-cause-of-lost-16000-covid-test-results/

In 2018 (pre covid) DHSC had a budget of 3bln.

Considering this is the UK public health body. And the place will have cash splurged on it.

You have to wonder why the DGSC does not have a robust set of database and software people on hand to do this.

So, the NHS alone has ~1.3m employees. The DHSC will have several 1000s more.

And not a single person able to handle large data sets??????

 

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10 minutes ago, spygirl said:

https://order-order.com/2020/10/05/spreadsheet-capacity-limit-cause-of-lost-16000-covid-test-results/

In 2018 (pre covid) DHSC had a budget of 3bln.

Considering this is the UK public health body. And the place will have cash splurged on it.

You have to wonder why the DGSC does not have a robust set of database and software people on hand to do this.

So, the NHS alone has ~1.3m employees. The DHSC will have several 1000s more.

And not a single person able to handle large data sets??????

 

It is absolutely unbelievable.

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1 minute ago, Bornagain said:

I disagree.

I pretty much expect fuckwittery like this when dealing with any large organisation - but especially a government department.

It is absolutely par for the course.

 

 

Matt I should have said that it would be absolutely unbelievable in the real world.😁

How many rows can Excel manage these days anyhow?

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48 minutes ago, Bornagain said:

I disagree.

I pretty much expect fuckwittery like this when dealing with any large organisation - but especially a government department.

It is absolutely par for the course.

 

 

No.

This is public health.

If public health is anything its mass roll out of healthcare, where number  are very important.

To have a bit of UKGOV, which sucks in ~15%+ of GDP and not be able to handle  large datasets is beyond a joke.

The entire lot - NHS, DHSC needs scrapping and starting again.

 

47 minutes ago, Rare Bear said:

Matt I should have said that it would be absolutely unbelievable in the real world.😁

How many rows can Excel manage these days anyhow?

To try and put important data into Excel is nuts.

 

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1 hour ago, spygirl said:

The entire lot - NHS, DHSC needs scrapping and starting again.

Over the years, various governments have had a crack at reforming the NHS.

They all fail.

I firmly believe that it is fundamentally impossible to run a very large organisation in an efficient manner.

Too few of the staff actually have any time facing the customer and hence the majority of the workforce never really understands what the organisation it trying to do.

Prices law says that 50% of work is done by the square root of the number of employees. It is a crude rule of thumb but I believe there is something behind it.

The NHS employs about 1.2 million people.

How much bureaucracy ?

How much waste ?

How much empire building ?

How much gaming the systems and career building ?

All in an organisation that is essentially the national religion, with the Prime Minsister being the high priest.

How would you even start to radically improve it ?

We have built a huge state sector which employs a massive number of people, we also have a large number of people who are dependant on benefits for all or the majority of their income. All of these people  have a vote.

Turkeys generally do not vote for Christmas.

The only way things are going to improve is if the state totally collapses, the institutions are detroyed and we start again from scratch.

Millions will have to starve to death and we will have rioting in the streets.

TPTB will do anything to prevent this.

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5 hours ago, spygirl said:

    
Directors of companies, charities, departments of government and other organisations have numerous statutory, fiduciary, reporting and compliance obligations. Penalties for failing to meet them include fines, jail sentences, undesired share price movements and unplanned career changes.

:D

Gotta love a well-turned euphemism 

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3 hours ago, spygirl said:

https://order-order.com/2020/10/05/spreadsheet-capacity-limit-cause-of-lost-16000-covid-test-results/

In 2018 (pre covid) DHSC had a budget of 3bln.

Considering this is the UK public health body. And the place will have cash splurged on it.

You have to wonder why the DGSC does not have a robust set of database and software people on hand to do this.

So, the NHS alone has ~1.3m employees. The DHSC will have several 1000s more.

And not a single person able to handle large data sets??????

 

yeh, but x is a spreadsheet wizard, they've got a mug and everything, just produce a spreadsheet that I can put on my laptop

oh, your proposing a database solution, ok, but the analysts will be downloading it onto a spreadsheet.

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Mmmmm.

I may have voiced my opinions on this fora before regarding Microsoft Excel or spreadsheets in general. I recall saying "useful for mom and pop operations or your home budget" as a minimum.

I have been saying this for twenty years.

5 hours ago, spygirl said:

http://www.eusprig.org/about.htm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54412581

Dont. Use. Excel. For. Important. Fucking. Data.

 

This^ Right there. With sugar on top.

2 hours ago, Sucralose Ray Leonard said:

I bet they had an apprentice doing the data import too. 

 

This^ Right there. With sugar on top.

2 hours ago, Oskar said:

The row limit is over 1 million so they must be using a single spreadsheet for all cases so far.

Wonder how much that .xls cost us taxpayers?

Covid Data for the security of the nation in a spreadsheet. Track 'n' Trace run by Dido harding.

What could possibly go wrong.

 

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10 minutes ago, MrLibertyRedux said:

Mmmmm.

I may have voiced my opinions on this fora before regarding Microsoft Excel or spreadsheets in general. I recall saying "useful for mom and pop operations or your home budget" as a minimum.

I have been saying this for twenty years.

This^ Right there. With sugar on top.

This^ Right there. With sugar on top.

Covid Data for the security of the nation in a spreadsheet. Track 'n' Trace run by Dido harding.

What could possibly go wrong.

 

Actually, Excel is very handy for viewing the data in a database.

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34 minutes ago, Option5 said:

You're assuming that they've updated from Windows 95.

My previous employer still has a Windows 95 machine running on the shop-floor that could stop the line of a major world automotive company if it died. It's also a specialist industrial PC in a 19" rack, and spare parts availability is close to zero.

Every now and again the Access 98 Database running on it gets corrupted, and the entire Engineering and IT departments shit their fucking pants....

 

XYY

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Not just public sector. Not too many years ago a big investment bank got fined lots for a similar fuck up. I think the issue with that incident was to do with some hidden excel rows - and someone not un-hiding them every day to tot up some value of investment. xD

I think the fine was tens of millions and the daily pricing fuck up in the hundreds of millions. 

 

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23 minutes ago, Rare Bear said:

Actually, Excel is very handy for viewing the data in a database.

Its *great* for presenting data.

However that data has to be stored and maintained in a proper database, then it can squirted to CSV or, if you're a smart arse like me, via COM.

Excel has no transaction. Any macro functionality whatever is not seperate from the data, so you have a massive dataptigrampresetentation Munger. And then you have several people accessing n updating at the same time.

Recipe for a fuckup.

And why did noone in dhsc/ngs/ukgov grasp this?

They cant all be classic n ppe grads, can they??.?

 

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29 minutes ago, The XYY Man said:

My previous employer still has a Windows 95 machine running on the shop-floor that could stop the line of a major world automotive company if it died. It's also a specialist industrial PC in a 19" rack, and spare parts availability is close to zero.

Every now and again the Access 98 Database running on it gets corrupted, and the entire Engineering and IT departments shit their fucking pants....

 

XYY

Theres so much fucked up stuff out there, running production lines.

Oh spy, we've had a - whizzkid /expensive consultant/ directors kid in. They made this great system that runs on normally a combination of an out of date windows, either .Net andor silverlight. Basically got a drag n drop gui, created an important process which theyve managed to embed into production.

I can guarantee that any system that has a mix of various MS 'technology' can never be created on demand to the exact same combination.

So you have a production line that is totally dependent on the capacitors or hard disk not failing. But they will after ~10 years.

 

 

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