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Madness of exporting animals only to reinport them as meat


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21 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54435029

 

They go via Spain's fattening "farms" and are shipped to the Middle East where they are barbically slaughtered.

"Now we have left the EU, the government needs to ban live exports for slaughter or fattening."

The UK currently exports some livestock to third countries for breeding. EU rules, which apply in the UK until at least January, limit the number of hours animals can travel without being rested and also the density of stock. They also require various vet checks at borders.

But clearly whatever rules are in place are ignored.

Why do we not keep the animals here? How can it be cheaper to send them to Spain to get fat?

 

Don't know - maybe the Spanish don't mind doing stuff to the calves to make them fatter that is illegal in the UK or would bring the animal rights people to the door?

In the same way that there are people that eat foie gras in the UK, but afaik no-one force-feeds ducks in Britain, that's all done in France.

 

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1 hour ago, 5min OCD speculator said:

Spain was close to being a 'third world county' a few decades ago...it's an effing big country....

How can you deprive these poor peasants of making a living and turning into fat burger eating, German car drivers like the Brits?

Spain was a 3rd world country back in the early 80s.

Its rapidly going back there since 2010 and all that.

The UK is hosting an ever increasing number of Spanish economic refugees.

As far as exporting animals to Spain - nuts. The countries turning more n more into a desert.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, sarahbell said:

 

Why do we not keep the animals here? How can it be cheaper to send them to Spain to get fat?

 

 

It's specifically:

Quote

Unweaned male calves are by-products of the dairy industry. The UK exported around 17,000 last year to Spain, the majority from Northern Ireland.

These aren't wanted by the dairy industry, which just wants female calves for milking, so they are sold.  If the Spanish will pay more for them than their value as meat then they will be sold to Spain.

I don't like the transportation of animals over such distances and I am disgusted that they end up being religiously slaughtered.

The rule should be no live exports except for breeding purposes.

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2 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

It's specifically:

These aren't wanted by the dairy industry, which just wants female calves for milking, so they are sold.  If the Spanish will pay more for them than their value as meat then they will be sold to Spain.

I don't like the transportation of animals over such distances and I am disgusted that they end up being religiously slaughtered.

The rule should be no live exports except for breeding purposes.

Hmm, thats interesting.  A new ferry service has been announced that serves Dublin port to Portugal..

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/fleet.ie/cldn-launches-direct-dublin-leixoes-service/%3famp?espv=1

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4 hours ago, spygirl said:

Spain was a 3rd world country back in the early 80s.

Its rapidly going back there since 2010 and all that.

The UK is hosting an ever increasing number of Spanish economic refugees.

As far as exporting animals to Spain - nuts. The countries turning more n more into a desert.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yet they somehow seem to own half of our banks. 

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8 hours ago, sarahbell said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54435029

 

They go via Spain's fattening "farms" and are shipped to the Middle East where they are barbically slaughtered.

"Now we have left the EU, the government needs to ban live exports for slaughter or fattening."

The UK currently exports some livestock to third countries for breeding. EU rules, which apply in the UK until at least January, limit the number of hours animals can travel without being rested and also the density of stock. They also require various vet checks at borders.

But clearly whatever rules are in place are ignored.

Why do we not keep the animals here? How can it be cheaper to send them to Spain to get fat?

 

 

To give a virus link ;)

Bird flu and Bernard Matthews, 2007, strain H5N1

The strain found in Suffolk was the same strain as that in their plant in Hungary, although no link was proven.

Think of the costs of the following. Driven by cheap turkey food, cheap labour and cheap human food.

Allegedly, the following chain occurred

Turkey eggs were hatched in the UK and day-old chicks transported by lorry to Hungary

Chicks were grown into turkeys in Hungary and killed

Turkey carcasses were transported chilled to Suffolk

In Suffolk the breasts were removed as that enabled "Produced in the UK"

The carcasses were shipped back refrigerated to Hungary where they were turned into turkey sausages.

 

Edited by Hopeful
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4 hours ago, MrPin said:

Veal is not popular here. It is in Germany.

Veal has been banned in the EU for over a decade, you cannot produce it or sell it because veal crates are outlawed. Interestingly foie gras is banned everywhere except France as they secured an opt out. I think the legal standpoint is that you can buy it but not sell it, unless it's imported from France or something. One of the reasons I voted for brexit, this inconsistency within the EU is bollocks.

Anyway the rose veal that you can buy now is from a young cow but it has never been inside a crate so not strictly veal.

It was surely a requirement to be a little sick in the head to knowingly have eaten veal before it was banned anyway. I suppose some weren't aware of the usage of crates or cages, though.

Veal-calves-standing3-1.jpg

Edited by spunko
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37 minutes ago, spunko said:

Veal has been banned in the EU for over a decade, you cannot produce it or sell it because veal crates are outlawed. Interestingly foie gras is banned everywhere except France as they secured an opt out. I think the legal standpoint is that you can buy it but not sell it, unless it's imported from France or something. One of the reasons I voted for brexit, this inconsistency within the EU is bollocks.

Anyway the rose veal that you can buy now is from a young cow but it has never been inside a crate so not strictly veal.

It was surely a requirement to be a little sick in the head to knowingly have eaten veal before it was banned anyway. I suppose some weren't aware of the usage of crates or cages, though.

Veal-calves-standing3-1.jpg

The Ortolan is also technically banned by the EU, but it seems the French also ignore that too.  They are tiny endangered birds that are fattened using grain, and are then drowned in Armagnac.  Diners wear napkins over their heads to "savour the aroma"...

ortolan-bunting-napkins-339070.jpg

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Just been reading about the small island country Paula near Indonesia and Micronesia.  They have -or had- an amazing abundance of seafood being positioned as they are with lots of little islands amongst bountiful Ocean. 

With a population of only 20k it's an uphill battle protecting their waters. 

The author of the book goes on patrol to find Chinese fishing boats coming in illegally.  After heading back to land the police crew grab a bite to eat as they can't catch anything decent on way back in (sign of times apparently).  They pick up some chicken stew from a stall.

The chicken comes from China.

Meanwhile the author says Chinese tourists flock to their country but they have to work hard to stop foreigners depleting the rare fish further.  As in there are inland lakes well known there, almost a national treasure filled with jelly fish that don't sting.  Signs up everywhere "do not disturb fish".  Author visits and first thing he sees is tourist pick up a jerky fish to inspect up close.

Apparently many of the Chinese will smuggle their own hot plates through customs and set up in the hotel rooms trying to eat all these rare weird creatures.  Wtf this isn't @Hopeful road kill gulls or careful fishing just wanton eating anything that looks different and probably just about extinct.

The rooms get raided from time to time but still clearly not deterrent enough.

 

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6 hours ago, spunko said:

Veal has been banned in the EU for over a decade, you cannot produce it or sell it because veal crates are outlawed. Interestingly foie gras is banned everywhere except France as they secured an opt out. I think the legal standpoint is that you can buy it but not sell it, unless it's imported from France or something. One of the reasons I voted for brexit, this inconsistency within the EU is bollocks.

Anyway the rose veal that you can buy now is from a young cow but it has never been inside a crate so not strictly veal.

It was surely a requirement to be a little sick in the head to knowingly have eaten veal before it was banned anyway. I suppose some weren't aware of the usage of crates or cages, though.

Veal-calves-standing3-1.jpg

You can buy veal in any French supermarket, and I think I’ve seen it in Switzerland too, bit less sure about that. But in France, definitely. No idea whether it’s from crated calves or young cows.

Actually scrub that, just remembered there are a couple of classic Swiss dishes that are veal, so you can definitely get it. 

Edited by swiss_democracy_for_all
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6 hours ago, Dave Beans said:

The Ortolan is also technically banned by the EU, but it seems the French also ignore that too.  They are tiny endangered birds that are fattened using grain, and are then drowned in Armagnac.  Diners wear napkins over their heads to "savour the aroma"...

ortolan-bunting-napkins-339070.jpg

The napkins aren't to savour the aroma.

The birds are eaten whole and its a messy business, the napkins are so other people can't see you chowing down on a whole bird. 

Edited by Roger_Mellie
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6 hours ago, Dogtania said:

Just been reading about the small island country Paula near Indonesia and Micronesia.  They have -or had- an amazing abundance of seafood being positioned as they are with lots of little islands amongst bountiful Ocean. 

With a population of only 20k it's an uphill battle protecting their waters. 

The author of the book goes on patrol to find Chinese fishing boats coming in illegally.  After heading back to land the police crew grab a bite to eat as they can't catch anything decent on way back in (sign of times apparently).  They pick up some chicken stew from a stall.

The chicken comes from China.

Meanwhile the author says Chinese tourists flock to their country but they have to work hard to stop foreigners depleting the rare fish further.  As in there are inland lakes well known there, almost a national treasure filled with jelly fish that don't sting.  Signs up everywhere "do not disturb fish".  Author visits and first thing he sees is tourist pick up a jerky fish to inspect up close.

Apparently many of the Chinese will smuggle their own hot plates through customs and set up in the hotel rooms trying to eat all these rare weird creatures.  Wtf this isn't @Hopeful road kill gulls or careful fishing just wanton eating anything that looks different and probably just about extinct.

The rooms get raided from time to time but still clearly not deterrent enough.

 

 

The Chinese are eating the world's wildlife.

Hundreds of Chinese fishing boats lurking off South America add to fears about a future war for fish

Ecuador says Chinese fishing vessels near the Galapagos have turned off tracking systems to prevent being monitored

 

chinese-fleet-fishing-in-galapagos.jpg

Edited by Hopeful
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When I were a lad, animals at that point in the food chain went to the mart in the local town (ours was about 3 miles away), then on to the local abattoir (about half a mile again), then the carcass went to the local butchers (about 1/4 mile) and was sold to customers.

This worked fairly well.  Sure, it isn't a nice process, but the miles were contained and the kill-process was about what it is now.

Then the EU came along.

  • They introduced laws about killing (needing vets, etc), and all the local abattoirs shut down.
  • Then they had to support abattoirs in less favoured economic regions, so they paid out cash for a new, much larger, abattoir about 20 miles away.  
  • They paid out for some other ones dotted about the place, but they never actually opened as it turns out getting cash from the EU is a great scam.
  • Then the EU paid for the one that did open to be enlarged.
  • Then all the animals started going there for the whole country, so the EU had to introduce miles-travelled laws for the animals.
  • They also added new laws for abattoirs.  This shut down the remaining smaller enterprises.
  • Now animals travelled for many hours to get slaughtered.
  • And because they're travelling anyway, live export for slaughter became much more common.
  • And some countries like importing animals for slaughter, as they then know that they've had the correct shouting applied at death.
  • Okay, I'm overdoing the EU thing (some was just the way the world was going), but they were important in all this.

IMO there should be no travelling of live animals for more than 3 hours (about), including for slaughter   This would be disastrous for the farming industry, as it is commonplace to shove animals around everywhere, and disastrous for the meat industry as there are nowhere near enough abattoirs in the UK.  But that's just where time has gotten us -- it isn't something that would be impossible to achieve.

Export of live animals for slaughter is barbaric.

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12 minutes ago, dgul said:

When I were a lad, animals at that point in the food chain went to the mart in the local town (ours was about 3 miles away), then on to the local abattoir (about half a mile again), then the carcass went to the local butchers (about 1/4 mile) and was sold to customers.

This worked fairly well.  Sure, it isn't a nice process, but the miles were contained and the kill-process was about what it is now.

Then the EU came along.

  • They introduced laws about killing (needing vets, etc), and all the local abattoirs shut down.
  • Then they had to support abattoirs in less favoured economic regions, so they paid out cash for a new, much larger, abattoir about 20 miles away.  
  • They paid out for some other ones dotted about the place, but they never actually opened as it turns out getting cash from the EU is a great scam.
  • Then the EU paid for the one that did open to be enlarged.
  • Then all the animals started going there for the whole country, so the EU had to introduce miles-travelled laws for the animals.
  • They also added new laws for abattoirs.  This shut down the remaining smaller enterprises.
  • Now animals travelled for many hours to get slaughtered.
  • And because they're travelling anyway, live export for slaughter became much more common.
  • And some countries like importing animals for slaughter, as they then know that they've had the correct shouting applied at death.
  • Okay, I'm overdoing the EU thing (some was just the way the world was going), but they were important in all this.

IMO there should be no travelling of live animals for more than 3 hours (about), including for slaughter   This would be disastrous for the farming industry, as it is commonplace to shove animals around everywhere, and disastrous for the meat industry as there are nowhere near enough abattoirs in the UK.  But that's just where time has gotten us -- it isn't something that would be impossible to achieve.

Export of live animals for slaughter is barbaric.

Meat inspection switched from Local government (Meat Inspectors and EHO's did the inspection) to the useless high cost Meat Hygiene Service. That killed 100's of small and medium size abattoirs. 

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30 minutes ago, dgul said:

When I were a lad, animals at that point in the food chain went to the mart in the local town (ours was about 3 miles away), then on to the local abattoir (about half a mile again), then the carcass went to the local butchers (about 1/4 mile) and was sold to customers.

This worked fairly well.  Sure, it isn't a nice process, but the miles were contained and the kill-process was about what it is now.

Then the EU came along.

  • They introduced laws about killing (needing vets, etc), and all the local abattoirs shut down.
  • Then they had to support abattoirs in less favoured economic regions, so they paid out cash for a new, much larger, abattoir about 20 miles away.  
  • They paid out for some other ones dotted about the place, but they never actually opened as it turns out getting cash from the EU is a great scam.
  • Then the EU paid for the one that did open to be enlarged.
  • Then all the animals started going there for the whole country, so the EU had to introduce miles-travelled laws for the animals.
  • They also added new laws for abattoirs.  This shut down the remaining smaller enterprises.
  • Now animals travelled for many hours to get slaughtered.
  • And because they're travelling anyway, live export for slaughter became much more common.
  • And some countries like importing animals for slaughter, as they then know that they've had the correct shouting applied at death.
  • Okay, I'm overdoing the EU thing (some was just the way the world was going), but they were important in all this.

IMO there should be no travelling of live animals for more than 3 hours (about), including for slaughter   This would be disastrous for the farming industry, as it is commonplace to shove animals around everywhere, and disastrous for the meat industry as there are nowhere near enough abattoirs in the UK.  But that's just where time has gotten us -- it isn't something that would be impossible to achieve.

Export of live animals for slaughter is barbaric.

Time limits have been routinely broken... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/calves-cows-animal-cruelty-veal-eu-live-exports-ireland-irish-republic-france-netherlands-a8457876.html

Post Brexit, the wait times will get worse, once they hit the SPS checks at the Border Control Posts in Calais, Rotterdam, Le Havre and so on..

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2 hours ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

You can buy veal in any French supermarket, and I think I’ve seen it in Switzerland too, bit less sure about that. But in France, definitely. No idea whether it’s from crated calves or young cows.

Actually scrub that, just remembered there are a couple of classic Swiss dishes that are veal, so you can definitely get it. 

On one of several business nights out in Switzerland we were taken to a restaurant for just this; I didn't know in advance but said I would have something else because I wouldn't eat veal on principle.

They did say that quite a few British people said that so weren't offended.

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2 hours ago, dgul said:

Export of live animals for slaughter is barbaric.

I am not sure if an animal can tell the difference between countries and knows when it passes a border. It would be more noble to limit all live animal transportation to maybe 2-4 hours, regardless of the destination.

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2 minutes ago, spunko said:

I am not sure if an animal can tell the difference between countries and knows when it passes a border. It would be more noble to limit all live animal transportation to maybe 2-4 hours, regardless of the destination.

And can they have a deck ticket rather than a hold one?

And a deckchair maybe?

Putting animals on ships strikes me as utter madness.

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