Jump to content
DOSBODS
  • Welcome to DOSBODS

     

    DOSBODS is free of any advertising.

    Ads are annoying, and - increasingly - advertising companies limit free speech online. DOSBODS Forums are completely free to use. Please create a free account to be able to access all the features of the DOSBODS community. It only takes 20 seconds!

     

Bitcoin, crypto generally, Central Banks Digital Currencies, System Resets, Wealth Preservation, controversies


Erewhon888

Recommended Posts

Erewhon888
20 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

That one line is all I needed to read to discount everything he says completely. You can believe this FUD or you can be rich, simple as that.

Yes, that's exactly the reaction he got for that line in the Realvision comments. There was more vicious personal comment on both of them than I've ever seen in several years of watching RV pieces. The comment by "R D" was similar to many others which in turn caused reaction on why the topic had become so emotional.

 
Quote

 

R D.
Apr 02, 2021 @ 17:40
Lemony & John A, yes, you've nailed it. For the cognitively challenged Mike Green fanboys who get erect upon hearing his hollow sesquipedallianism (ie, 99% of Real Vision viewers), vote down and move on. For the cognitively intact, it's worth noting that Mike Green is a human saprophyte who survives by feasting on the blubber of financial whales like Druckenmiller and Thiel. Is it surprising that he is no longer under the employ of either? Could it be because he provided them with zero or negative value (financial or otherwise)? Mike bemoans anything that challenges his 2+20% vampirism off the financial elite: passive investing, bitcoin, etc. In any field other than finance, Green would have long ago been exposed as a value-extracting parasite. But in finance, one gets paid not for performance, but merely for producing CO2. Congrats to Green for finding his true calling!

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 432
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Green Devil

    51

  • goldbug9999

    50

  • Erewhon888

    41

  • jamtomorrow

    36

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Interesting anecdotal for you all into crypto. My wife has just received a text from an old friend saying 'we're thinking of buying some bitcoin, can you help at all with how to go about it'. The

I was thinking about something similar, although corporate-driven instead of govt-driven. And it has to do with recent PayPal announcement.   If you look at the history of money, you'll

I've just had a cold-call about investing in bitcoin.  #Shoeshine.

Posted Images

Erewhon888
28 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

That one line is all I needed to read to discount everything he says completely. You can believe this FUD or you can be rich, simple as that.

    •  

      Here is longer reaction of "J L" to the same line that caught your attention.

      Quote

       

      J L.
      Apr 02, 2021 @ 18:30
      Mike Green said: "Bitcoin is, as much as people hate to hear this, it is MySpace to the ultimate CBDCs, and the biggest challenge, I think, is that while the 1.6 trillion sounds like a lot of money, it's just not that big."
       
      Come on now, seriously? The current market cap for gold is around $11 trillion, which is also "not that big" I supposed. So if BTC is MySpace, is gold Friendster? This metaphor doesn't compute.
      And the whole "will governments adopt Bitcoin" is to some degree a red herring of a question, because the obvious answer is "no" -- and yet, at the same time, CBDCs are not real competition for Bitcoin, and never will be by design.
       
      The real question is: "How much of gold's market share will Bitcoin absorb?" As for why CBDCs are not real competition for Bitcoin... Let's play the Sesame Street game, One of These Things is Not Like the Other:
      -- Gold cannot be spent into existence by politicians
      -- Bitcoin cannot be spent into existence by politicians
      -- CBDCs CAN be spent into existence by politicians
      I mean look my dude, a Central Bank Digital Currency will essentially be fiat currency in an electronic wrapper. And that is why no CBDC will compete with Bitcoin, not really, in the same respect that fiat currencies do not "compete" with gold.
      The job of gold has long been to serve as a kind of neutral arbiter, a fixed-supply store of value that exists outside the whims of a paper-based financial system. When the price of gold moves up and down in fiat terms, it is really the fiat that is moving around, not the value of gold itself.
       
      Bitcoin, meanwhile, is rapidly gaining traction because Bitcoin does the same job gold does, but arguably better. Gold is prized for being scarce, Bitcoin is even more scarce. Gold is prized for being divisible and portable, Bitcoin is even more divisible and portable, and so on.
       
      Then, too, there is a reason why giant payment rail providers are building transaction networks to facilitate the use of Bitcoin when they never did so for gold. It seems to turn out that, in technological terms, the useful properties that gold offered up for thousands of years, in terms of serving as a globally recognized store of value, are better served by a digital asset. What all of this means, really, is that:
      -- Gold has had an important job for thousands of years (and still does)
      -- Bitcoin's killer use case is serving as "digital gold" and should be considered in that manner
      - The relevant question is how much of gold's market share Bitcoin will capture
      -- CBDCs are just electronic fiat, with unlimited supply, and thus WILL NEVER DO what gold and BTC do
       
      The question of whether governments will adopt Bitcoin is also kind of frivolous in my view. Asking whether governments adopt Bitcoin is like asking whether they will go back to the gold standard. Why would they do that? The gold standard was abandoned, in part, because a gold standard is a voluntary constraint on monetary and fiscal policy.
       
      If you're on a gold standard, you don't have the ability to borrow in your own currency or monetize your own debts within the flexible boundaries of inflation constraints. Being on a gold standard would also mean ceding some of your monetary sovereignty to other nations that have large enough quantities of gold to impact your policy outcomes by messing with the inflows and outflows of gold.
       
      A Bitcoin standard would be the same thing, because Bitcoin is like gold but even more so (fixed supply, global, etc). So asking "will governments ever adopt Bitcoin" is like asking "will governments ever go back to the gold standard" and the obvious answer to that question is either "No way" or "not unless they are FORCED to by catastrophic circumstances."
       
      One could see, say, a country like Lebanon or post-Erdogan Turkey going to a Bitcoin standard as a means of dealing with a total collapse of faith in the governance system, a way to start over and borrow some credibility from a sovereign asset. But for a country that remains rich and de facto solvent in trade flow terms with a liquid bond market -- yeah there is no way in hell they would give up their own monetary sovereignty because why would they? CBDCs, meanwhile, will be an important and possibly game-changing innovation, but not because they will replace Bitcoin or because they will be anything more than electronic fiat.
       
      CBDCs, instead, will enable the ability of governments and central banks to execute far more nuanced policy. The point of a CBDC is that the Fed and Treasury will be able to get super-duper granular with it, e.g. sending targeted payments to a specific group of households, or creating a tax credit on a smart contract for certain type of household or something like that.
       
      This function will make governments more powerful, maybe far more powerful, in terms of their ability to execute creative policy decision, but it won't change the fiat nature of what a CBDC is -- which will always have unlimited supply capacity by design -- and as such CBDCs will not "compete" with Bitcoin at all, any more than fiat currency (whose supply can balloon with the press of a button) "competes" with a fixed-supply sovereign store of value (gold).
      • CR
        Connie R.
        Apr 03, 2021 @ 13:03
        Thanks for your in depth discussion. I agree with your conclusions, but I'm not sure I see the long-term use case for BTC, other than a store of value like gold, if CBDCs become the new "fiat". Gold bugs will tell you the price of gold is manipulated, and I'm already seeing the "financial products" being put in place to manipulate BTC price. I think that's exactly what will happen to BTC. It will be held as a (manipulated) store of value, but not "circulate" as a currency. The HODLers will kill that function of BTC.
      • JL
        J L.
        Apr 03, 2021 @ 14:32
        @ Connie R. If BTC achieves store of value status on par with gold, its market cap could rise to $10-$15 trillion by the end of the decade as the price of gold doubles, as part of the response to a meaningful inflation cycle (the first one in four-plus decades) taking hold. That would be more than "enough."
         
        At the same time, BTC is fast achieving mass-scale transaction capability status by way of companies like Paypal and Visa. The point there is not to be a transaction currency, but to have seamless access to every other form of currency, which would allow anyone to keep a substantial portion of their liquid savings in BTC, and then convert it to any other currency instantly, and behind the scenes, at the point of transaction for a purchase.
         
        As for gold (and silver) being manipulated, those claims have been around for decades but never really substantiated. And even if there is truth to precious metals being manipulated, the core of that argument involves lying about the amount of physical metal that is actually stored in vaults in warehouses. As such it would be impossible to run the same playbook with BTC -- the supply location is too transparent and trackable. (Just another way BTC has an edge over gold.)

      And the Mike Green sedition argument is triple-obnoxious because, even if you believe U.S. rule of law is holding up fine (as I would argue), it still makes no sense to say buying BTC is seditious any more than buying gold is seditious. I'd like to hear Mike Green answer with a straight face: Is buying gold seditious?

      Is everyone who has ever advocated for gold as an instability and inflation hedge a seditionist? Are, say, Ray Dalio and Jim Grant and Rick Rule and Bill Fleckenstein seditionists? Because if the answer is "no," then the answer is also "no" for Bitcoin, because the rationale is the same. BTC as digital gold / de-materialized gold does the same job. Bitcoin is an asset with useful properties, just like gold is -- nothing more and nothing less -- and Green's low-key hyperbolic arguments have become so specious and toxic and detached from rationality and fair play, one wonders if he might need therapy on this one.

       

       

  •  
  • Informative 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
goldbug9999
29 minutes ago, Erewhon888 said:
    • Here is longer reaction of "J L" to the same line that caught your attention.

       

  •  

 largely agree, glad other people still have stomach for the fight, I got bored of these boiler plate bitcoin FUD arguments years ago so I treat people offering up with the respect they deserve i.e. none at all.

One point I would take issue with is the idea that bitcoin is mostly limited to taking cap from gold, it isn't, there are whole cohorts of investors that gold never gained any traction with ... such as young people. Theres a recent interview with Dominic Frisby where he says that when he went to gold investor conferences at 50 YO he'd be youngest person there, when he went to bitcoin conferences he'd be the oldest person there.

  • Informative 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Sugarlips

For anyone with a spare hour, this is quite the conversation 

 

  • Cheers 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 03/04/2021 at 15:42, goldbug9999 said:

One point I would take issue with is the idea that bitcoin is mostly limited to taking cap from gold, it isn't, there are whole cohorts of investors that gold never gained any traction with ... such as young people. Theres a recent interview with Dominic Frisby where he says that when he went to gold investor conferences at 50 YO he'd be youngest person there, when he went to bitcoin conferences he'd be the oldest person there.

Royal Mint released some stats a few months ago that showed they had massive quantities of customers in the 25-35 bracket - see https://ifamagazine.com/article/the-royal-mint-reports-sharp-rise-in-millennial-investors-and-gifting-gold/ . Specifically - 'The Royal Mint recorded a 32% increase in millennials buying precious metals in 2020 (customers aged 22 – 37 years old)'.

Gold permeates through all popular culture - from games like GTA V to Read Dead Redemption II. Make no mistake, there are a great many younger people buying silver and gold.

They may not go to conferences (but then, why would you?), and they may not talk about it much - but they are buying.

There's been record sales across gold and silver just in the last month. US mint sold more gold eagles than at any time in the last 10 years.

And in any event, 85%+ of all humanity lives in the East - from India to China. They all buy gold and understand it. On that basis, the West is virtually irrelevant.

Edited by Errol
  • Agree 1
  • Informative 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Long time lurking

This could have been posted in many threads but it seem appropriate to be in the funny money thread

Be careful of what you wish for ? 

 

  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

^Negative interest rates which means, a digital wallet offers Zero protection from time expiry digital money. 

To be honest, I don't think it will work, and will probably cause a revolution and the fall of the CCP.

In this current system, 90% of people don't know that fiat is unbacked, and people are encouraged to spend through the threat of creeping inflation. Most people can't pin the blame of inflation on anyone or any entity. It's just those greedy faceless business people profiteering, right?! We shrug, pay the higher prices each year, and carry on.

With such a transparent alternative, they can squarely point the blame at their personal failings in life towards one entity. Very easily. Boom and and we will have a revolution.

Edited by 201p
  • Agree 2
  • Informative 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
goldbug9999
2 hours ago, Long time lurking said:

This could have been posted in many threads but it seem appropriate to be in the funny money thread

Be careful of what you wish for ? 

 

State / central bank digital currencies are as interesting to sound money investors as vegetarian sausages are to meat eaters.

  • Agree 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Similar Content

    • Inoperational Bumblebee
      By Inoperational Bumblebee
      As title, Revolut currency card is adding bitcoin, ethereum and litecoin as currencies on Thursday. No link as on phone. They already have a userbase of a million users, and IME, it works seamlessly everywhere.
      It's often mentioned that bitcoin needs an extra payment layer like Lightning Network. Could this be an interim solution?
      I'm not sure about storing my cryptos on the card, but it may provide an easy way to take profits or to spend them day to day if I want. This may be an easy way to exchange crypto for physical gold...
    • Inoperational Bumblebee
      By Inoperational Bumblebee
      So we have the Ether thread, but no Bitcoin thread yet. Given the rather impressive run up over the last few days (currently £1230 for future reference) I thought I'd start one.
      Who's holding any? Do you have any idea of at what level you plan to sell? Are you treating it like digital gold, pure speculation or what?
      With all the recent action with the SEC Winklevoss ETF decision and Japan's recognition of it as a proper currency, its future looks bright to me though I don't really follow it that studiously. I'm currently experiencing the fear/greed dichotomy of whether I should lock in some profits now and sell some, or go nuts deep and get more!
    • SpectrumFX
      By SpectrumFX
      Is gold a barberous relic which will be rendered a valueless lump of metal, good only as a door stop or paper weight once people come to their senses?
      Or is it the one true money destined to reign supreme once the world abandons the fiat madness?
      Or is it just a commodity we can trade, to make (or lose ) a bit of money if we fancy the risk?
      Is silver the place to be due to the industrial uses?
      Why is platinum cheaper than gold? That's a bit odd isn't it?
      Should we be trading the ratio between the gold and silver prices, or the gold and platinum prices?
      Here's a thread we can use to talk about all of those things.
      And post pictures of rockets
       
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...