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14 minutes ago, Roger_Mellie said:

I have no idea what any of that means.

Can @Hopeful help decipher it? It looks interesting. I love a bit of scientific intrigue. 

it's been rumbling on for a while

I sometimes look at it. It's all a bit cloudy and I haven't looked in detail enough to say whether there is anything in it. I suspect there might not be. If I have time I'll look more closely. It is interesting but it would take me a day or so.

However, the RaTG13 story does suggest sloppy practise at the WIV

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4 hours ago, Hopeful said:

it's been rumbling on for a while

I sometimes look at it. It's all a bit cloudy and I haven't looked in detail enough to say whether there is anything in it. I suspect there might not be. If I have time I'll look more closely. It is interesting but it would take me a day or so.

However, the RaTG13 story does suggest sloppy practise at the WIV

Occam's razor. What  is the likelihood of a novel virus outbreak on the doorstep of one of the few labs in the world looking into the very same sorts of novel virus. Only other highly likely option is that it was planted with the lab as cover/deflection.

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2 hours ago, onlyme said:

Occam's razor. What  is the likelihood of a novel virus outbreak on the doorstep of one of the few labs in the world looking into the very same sorts of novel virus. Only other highly likely option is that it was planted with the lab as cover/deflection.

Oh yes, the lab could be the most parsimonious explanation and the SarsCov2 sequence has some curiosities.

I haven't really paid enough attention. I should because it's interesting, but it's not my research and life gets in the way. I'm also out of my depth with viruses (prokaryotic sequences) as I've only studied some bacteria (also prokaryotic) and mainly, eukaryotic sequences. Principles are the same however.

Back in March I posted this article

Coronavirus origins: genome analysis suggests two viruses may have combined

What the article suggests is that SarsCov2 is a chimera - a product of two different sequences that have come together, some of one and some of another.

Briefly, it says that SarsCov2 is mostly like a sequence previously isolated from bats and called RaTG13. (@Roger_Mellie that is the sequence you queried, the strain isolated in 2016 and held at WIV and then, I think, the strain was 'lost' around 2018, called depleted in the Twitter feed you linked.) RaTG13, can't infect humans however, as the spike protein is unsuitable (according to the article). (@spygirl RaTG13 is what Alina Chan is getting excited about.)

However, SarsCov2, even though it is mainly like RaTG13, it can infect humans as the SarsCov2 spike protein contains a 74 amino acid segment that is 99% identical to Pangolin that creates the ACE2 receptor binding domain. It looks like SarsCov2 is mainly bat cornavirus with a little bit of pangolin coronavirus.

Isolation of SARS-CoV-2-related coronavirus from Malayan pangolins

How could a bat - pangolin chimera come about?

The two viruses have to meet each other to be able to recombine, they have to be in the same host. So a Pangolin infected with a pangolin coronavirus has to become infected with RaTG13 from a bat, or vice versa, or some other coincidence brings the two vruses together in a host.

This is explained at the end of The Conversation article, which says

 

Quote

Two questions remain unanswered: in which organism did this recombination occur? (a bat, a pangolin or another species?) And above all, under what conditions did this recombination take place?

 

Now, how likely is it for a bat to infect a pangolin or vice versa

or another species ?

Of cousre, you could rewrite that quote as:

Two questions remain unanswered: in which organism did this recombination occur? (a bat, a pangolin or a test tube?) And above all, under what laboratory conditions did this recombination take place?

Could it be that researchers were perhaps playing around with RatG13 to see what would make it infectious - Gain of Function research? There was a lot of interest in RatG13 because it was thought to have killed some researchers.

What do the other mol biols on here think about the above - am I talking bollarx?

@spygirl  I think Alina Chan might be onto somethhing in her Twitter thread, but it may not be what she thinks it is at the moment.

Edited by Hopeful
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2 hours ago, onlyme said:

Occam's razor. What  is the likelihood of a novel virus outbreak on the doorstep of one of the few labs in the world looking into the very same sorts of novel virus. Only other highly likely option is that it was planted with the lab as cover/deflection.

It depends.

On one extreme of the internet, you've got people saying the virus was de eloped in a lab. Chinky biological warfare!!

On the other hand youve got CCP who are saying fuckall.

Imho I think the most likely explanation is you've had researches from the wuhan lab out n about looking for unusual viruses in the bat / wild animal population.

This will have been done with state funding I.e ccp, maybe for biological warfare, maybe for academic dick waving, maybe to prove the superior Chinese political-scientific method.

So you'll have mass scale harvesting of bats n other wierd animals, living in a warm, moist long-time environment, took back to lab, bred, strained, tested, evolved, etc.

Then some daft who's Dad is local cadre ignores bio-security and pisses off to get noodles.

So, in short, I reckon it's a natural occuring virus tgats had a hefty human boost that may or may not include pissing with its RNA.

 

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1 hour ago, Hopeful said:

Oh yes, the lab could be the most parsimonious explanation and the SarsCov2 sequence has some curiosities.

I haven't really paid enough attention. I should because it's interesting, but it's not my research and life gets in the way. I'm also out of my depth with viruses (prokaryotic sequences) as I've only studied some bacteria (also prokaryotic) and mainly, eukaryotic sequences. Principles are the same however.

Back in March I posted this article

Coronavirus origins: genome analysis suggests two viruses may have combined

What the article suggests is that SarsCov2 is a chimera - a product of two different sequences that have come together, some of one and some of another.

Briefly, it says that SarsCov2 is mostly like a sequence previously isolated from bats and called RaTG13. (@Roger_Mellie that is the sequence you queried, the strain isolated in 2016 and held at WIV and then, I think, the strain was 'lost' around 2018, called depleted in the Twitter feed you linked.) RaTG13, can't infect humans however, as the spike protein is unsuitable (according to the article). (@spygirl RaTG13 is what Alina Chan is getting excited about.)

However, SarsCov2, even though it is mainly like RaTG13, it can infect humans as the SarsCov2 spike protein contains a 74 amino acid segment that is 99% identical to Pangolin that creates the ACE2 receptor binding domain. It looks like SarsCov2 is mainly bat cornavirus with a little bit of pangolin coronavirus.

Isolation of SARS-CoV-2-related coronavirus from Malayan pangolins

How could a bat - pangolin chimera come about?

The two viruses have to meet each other to be able to recombine, they have to be in the same host. So a Pangolin infected with a pangolin coronavirus has to become infected with RaTG13 from a bat, or vice versa, or some other coincidence brings the two vruses together in a host.

This is explained at the end of The Conversation article, which says

 

 

Now, how likely is it for a bat to infect a pangolin or vice versa

or another species ?

Of cousre, you could rewrite that quote as:

Two questions remain unanswered: in which organism did this recombination occur? (a bat, a pangolin or a test tube?) And above all, under what laboratory conditions did this recombination take place?

Could it be that researchers were perhaps playing around with RatG13 to see what would make it infectious - Gain of Function research? There was a lot of interest in RatG13 because it was thought to have killed some researchers.

What do the other mol biols on here think about the above - am I talking bollarx?

@spygirl  I think Alina Chan might be onto somethhing in her Twitter thread, but it may not be what she thinks it is at the moment.

I'd like to breed a  Bat-Pangoliin hybrid. It would be cool.

I'm also keen on a Gorilla-Salt water croc cross....

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