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Who dunnit?


spygirl
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14 minutes ago, Roger_Mellie said:

I have no idea what any of that means.

Can @Hopeful help decipher it? It looks interesting. I love a bit of scientific intrigue. 

it's been rumbling on for a while

I sometimes look at it. It's all a bit cloudy and I haven't looked in detail enough to say whether there is anything in it. I suspect there might not be. If I have time I'll look more closely. It is interesting but it would take me a day or so.

However, the RaTG13 story does suggest sloppy practise at the WIV

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4 hours ago, Hopeful said:

it's been rumbling on for a while

I sometimes look at it. It's all a bit cloudy and I haven't looked in detail enough to say whether there is anything in it. I suspect there might not be. If I have time I'll look more closely. It is interesting but it would take me a day or so.

However, the RaTG13 story does suggest sloppy practise at the WIV

Occam's razor. What  is the likelihood of a novel virus outbreak on the doorstep of one of the few labs in the world looking into the very same sorts of novel virus. Only other highly likely option is that it was planted with the lab as cover/deflection.

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2 hours ago, onlyme said:

Occam's razor. What  is the likelihood of a novel virus outbreak on the doorstep of one of the few labs in the world looking into the very same sorts of novel virus. Only other highly likely option is that it was planted with the lab as cover/deflection.

Oh yes, the lab could be the most parsimonious explanation and the SarsCov2 sequence has some curiosities.

I haven't really paid enough attention. I should because it's interesting, but it's not my research and life gets in the way. I'm also out of my depth with viruses (prokaryotic sequences) as I've only studied some bacteria (also prokaryotic) and mainly, eukaryotic sequences. Principles are the same however.

Back in March I posted this article

Coronavirus origins: genome analysis suggests two viruses may have combined

What the article suggests is that SarsCov2 is a chimera - a product of two different sequences that have come together, some of one and some of another.

Briefly, it says that SarsCov2 is mostly like a sequence previously isolated from bats and called RaTG13. (@Roger_Mellie that is the sequence you queried, the strain isolated in 2016 and held at WIV and then, I think, the strain was 'lost' around 2018, called depleted in the Twitter feed you linked.) RaTG13, can't infect humans however, as the spike protein is unsuitable (according to the article). (@spygirl RaTG13 is what Alina Chan is getting excited about.)

However, SarsCov2, even though it is mainly like RaTG13, it can infect humans as the SarsCov2 spike protein contains a 74 amino acid segment that is 99% identical to Pangolin that creates the ACE2 receptor binding domain. It looks like SarsCov2 is mainly bat cornavirus with a little bit of pangolin coronavirus.

Isolation of SARS-CoV-2-related coronavirus from Malayan pangolins

How could a bat - pangolin chimera come about?

The two viruses have to meet each other to be able to recombine, they have to be in the same host. So a Pangolin infected with a pangolin coronavirus has to become infected with RaTG13 from a bat, or vice versa, or some other coincidence brings the two vruses together in a host.

This is explained at the end of The Conversation article, which says

 

Quote

Two questions remain unanswered: in which organism did this recombination occur? (a bat, a pangolin or another species?) And above all, under what conditions did this recombination take place?

 

Now, how likely is it for a bat to infect a pangolin or vice versa

or another species ?

Of cousre, you could rewrite that quote as:

Two questions remain unanswered: in which organism did this recombination occur? (a bat, a pangolin or a test tube?) And above all, under what laboratory conditions did this recombination take place?

Could it be that researchers were perhaps playing around with RatG13 to see what would make it infectious - Gain of Function research? There was a lot of interest in RatG13 because it was thought to have killed some researchers.

What do the other mol biols on here think about the above - am I talking bollarx?

@spygirl  I think Alina Chan might be onto somethhing in her Twitter thread, but it may not be what she thinks it is at the moment.

Edited by Hopeful
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2 hours ago, onlyme said:

Occam's razor. What  is the likelihood of a novel virus outbreak on the doorstep of one of the few labs in the world looking into the very same sorts of novel virus. Only other highly likely option is that it was planted with the lab as cover/deflection.

It depends.

On one extreme of the internet, you've got people saying the virus was de eloped in a lab. Chinky biological warfare!!

On the other hand youve got CCP who are saying fuckall.

Imho I think the most likely explanation is you've had researches from the wuhan lab out n about looking for unusual viruses in the bat / wild animal population.

This will have been done with state funding I.e ccp, maybe for biological warfare, maybe for academic dick waving, maybe to prove the superior Chinese political-scientific method.

So you'll have mass scale harvesting of bats n other wierd animals, living in a warm, moist long-time environment, took back to lab, bred, strained, tested, evolved, etc.

Then some daft who's Dad is local cadre ignores bio-security and pisses off to get noodles.

So, in short, I reckon it's a natural occuring virus tgats had a hefty human boost that may or may not include pissing with its RNA.

 

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1 hour ago, Hopeful said:

Oh yes, the lab could be the most parsimonious explanation and the SarsCov2 sequence has some curiosities.

I haven't really paid enough attention. I should because it's interesting, but it's not my research and life gets in the way. I'm also out of my depth with viruses (prokaryotic sequences) as I've only studied some bacteria (also prokaryotic) and mainly, eukaryotic sequences. Principles are the same however.

Back in March I posted this article

Coronavirus origins: genome analysis suggests two viruses may have combined

What the article suggests is that SarsCov2 is a chimera - a product of two different sequences that have come together, some of one and some of another.

Briefly, it says that SarsCov2 is mostly like a sequence previously isolated from bats and called RaTG13. (@Roger_Mellie that is the sequence you queried, the strain isolated in 2016 and held at WIV and then, I think, the strain was 'lost' around 2018, called depleted in the Twitter feed you linked.) RaTG13, can't infect humans however, as the spike protein is unsuitable (according to the article). (@spygirl RaTG13 is what Alina Chan is getting excited about.)

However, SarsCov2, even though it is mainly like RaTG13, it can infect humans as the SarsCov2 spike protein contains a 74 amino acid segment that is 99% identical to Pangolin that creates the ACE2 receptor binding domain. It looks like SarsCov2 is mainly bat cornavirus with a little bit of pangolin coronavirus.

Isolation of SARS-CoV-2-related coronavirus from Malayan pangolins

How could a bat - pangolin chimera come about?

The two viruses have to meet each other to be able to recombine, they have to be in the same host. So a Pangolin infected with a pangolin coronavirus has to become infected with RaTG13 from a bat, or vice versa, or some other coincidence brings the two vruses together in a host.

This is explained at the end of The Conversation article, which says

 

 

Now, how likely is it for a bat to infect a pangolin or vice versa

or another species ?

Of cousre, you could rewrite that quote as:

Two questions remain unanswered: in which organism did this recombination occur? (a bat, a pangolin or a test tube?) And above all, under what laboratory conditions did this recombination take place?

Could it be that researchers were perhaps playing around with RatG13 to see what would make it infectious - Gain of Function research? There was a lot of interest in RatG13 because it was thought to have killed some researchers.

What do the other mol biols on here think about the above - am I talking bollarx?

@spygirl  I think Alina Chan might be onto somethhing in her Twitter thread, but it may not be what she thinks it is at the moment.

I'd like to breed a  Bat-Pangoliin hybrid. It would be cool.

I'm also keen on a Gorilla-Salt water croc cross....

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  • 6 months later...
spygirl
On 27/10/2020 at 19:58, spygirl said:

It depends.

On one extreme of the internet, you've got people saying the virus was de eloped in a lab. Chinky biological warfare!!

On the other hand youve got CCP who are saying fuckall.

Imho I think the most likely explanation is you've had researches from the wuhan lab out n about looking for unusual viruses in the bat / wild animal population.

This will have been done with state funding I.e ccp, maybe for biological warfare, maybe for academic dick waving, maybe to prove the superior Chinese political-scientific method.

So you'll have mass scale harvesting of bats n other wierd animals, living in a warm, moist long-time environment, took back to lab, bred, strained, tested, evolved, etc.

Then some daft who's Dad is local cadre ignores bio-security and pisses off to get noodles.

So, in short, I reckon it's a natural occuring virus tgats had a hefty human boost that may or may not include pissing with its RNA.

 

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/05/24/covid-like-illnesses-wuhan-lab-add-coronavirus-origin-questions/7417618002/

WASHINGTON — A U.S. intelligence report found that three researchers at a lab in Wuhan, China, the city where the coronavirus pandemic is believed to have originated, fell sick in the fall of 2019, according to new reports.

The finding, first reported by the Wall Street Journal, has prompted questions into the origins of COVID-19. U.S. officials and scientists have long said not enough is known to determine definitively whether the virus jumped from animals to humans or came out of a laboratory.

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Ianb78

Origin of Covid 19?

From the minds of the World Economic Forum

It’s all a scam folks. Flu reclassified 

“covid 19” has never been isolated. This is confirmed by freedom of information requests to various health bodies. The PCR tests test for RNA fragments and cannot discern whether you have an infectious disease or not. Even the inventor of the PCR test stated it should not be used for this purpose 

Even if you believe covid exists as a novel entity it was downgraded by our own government from a ‘high consequence infectious disease‘ way back in March 2020 😂🤦🏻‍♂️

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12 minutes ago, Ianb78 said:

Origin of Covid 19?

From the minds of the World Economic Forum

It’s all a scam folks. Flu reclassified 

“covid 19” has never been isolated. This is confirmed by freedom of information requests to various health bodies. The PCR tests test for RNA fragments and cannot discern whether you have an infectious disease or not. Even the inventor of the PCR test stated it should not be used for this purpose 

Even if you believe covid exists as a novel entity it was downgraded by our own government from a ‘high consequence infectious disease‘ way back in March 2020 😂🤦🏻‍♂️

Yup.

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Chewing Grass
Posted (edited)

COVID Wuhan Lab Intel Forces Fauci, Fact Checkers to do a 180

 

Edited by Chewing Grass
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5 hours ago, spygirl said:

A U.S. intelligence report

Stop right there.

The credibility of US 'Intelligence' is virtually zero.

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The Masked Tulip
On 27/10/2020 at 12:44, Roger_Mellie said:

I have no idea what any of that means.

Can @Hopeful help decipher it? It looks interesting. I love a bit of scientific intrigue. 

 

I love a good coloured chart I do. I miss crayoned pencils.

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Roger_Mellie
3 hours ago, Ianb78 said:

Origin of Covid 19?

From the minds of the World Economic Forum

It’s all a scam folks. Flu reclassified 

“covid 19” has never been isolated. This is confirmed by freedom of information requests to various health bodies. The PCR tests test for RNA fragments and cannot discern whether you have an infectious disease or not. Even the inventor of the PCR test stated it should not be used for this purpose 

Even if you believe covid exists as a novel entity it was downgraded by our own government from a ‘high consequence infectious disease‘ way back in March 2020 😂🤦🏻‍♂️

Where are the FOI requests? 

I'd like to know a bit more before I mention this and look like a lunatic retard. 

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King Penda
Posted (edited)
On 27/10/2020 at 19:58, spygirl said:

It depends.

On one extreme of the internet, you've got people saying the virus was de eloped in a lab. Chinky biological warfare!!

On the other hand youve got CCP who are saying fuckall.

Imho I think the most likely explanation is you've had researches from the wuhan lab out n about looking for unusual viruses in the bat / wild animal population.

This will have been done with state funding I.e ccp, maybe for biological warfare, maybe for academic dick waving, maybe to prove the superior Chinese political-scientific method.

So you'll have mass scale harvesting of bats n other wierd animals, living in a warm, moist long-time environment, took back to lab, bred, strained, tested, evolved, etc.

Then some daft who's Dad is local cadre ignores bio-security and pisses off to get noodles.

So, in short, I reckon it's a natural occuring virus tgats had a hefty human boost that may or may not include pissing with its RNA.

 

It’s an undercooked mixed grill from the local wet market.aids started with some sloppy knife work from the chef once again it’s a chef that’s at fault

Edited by stokiescum
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Ianb78
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Roger_Mellie said:

Where are the FOI requests? 

I'd like to know a bit more before I mention this and look like a lunatic retard. 

 

 

1D0908A3-5F06-475E-B6FE-23F97C0F32A4.png

Edited by Ianb78
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Ianb78
On 27/10/2020 at 19:59, spygirl said:

I'd like to breed a  Bat-Pangoliin hybrid. It would be cool.

I'm also keen on a Gorilla-Salt water croc cross....

Pokemon ?

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Roger_Mellie
1 hour ago, Ianb78 said:

none of that is irrefutable proof that the virus doesn't exist. 

I've always like Vernon Coleman, I used to read his column in The Sunday People back in the day, funny as fuck, I think he's right but it's not proof that the virus doesn't exist. 

On balance, given the number of labs that say its been isolated I'm going with them. Unless it's also a global academic conspiracy. Would be interesting to see a study from a reputable lab that says they were unable to isolate it. 

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Ianb78
30 minutes ago, Roger_Mellie said:

none of that is irrefutable proof that the virus doesn't exist. 

I've always like Vernon Coleman, I used to read his column in The Sunday People back in the day, funny as fuck, I think he's right but it's not proof that the virus doesn't exist. 

On balance, given the number of labs that say its been isolated I'm going with them. Unless it's also a global academic conspiracy. Would be interesting to see a study from a reputable lab that says they were unable to isolate it. 

Show me irrefutable proof that it exists. I think someone even offered 50k euro reward for this evidence but as far as I’m aware no one had been able to do so.

what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence 

aside from quibbling about isolation. Where is the evidence of a pandemic in reality?! I don’t know anyone with serious covid (know a few with positive PCR who were asymptomatic or mildly unwell). Where are the piles of bodies? The cremation/burial stats are not significantly increased. 
 

Opening ones eyes and observing reality is all that is needed - this is clearly not a pandemic 

the government itself even downgraded covid 19 from a “high consequence infectious disease” way back in March 2020

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sleepwello'nights
8 minutes ago, Ianb78 said:

 

the government itself even downgraded covid 19 from a “high consequence infectious disease” way back in March 2020

and then locked us down!

None of this makes any sense to me. The most plausible theory is the pharma companies saw it as a way of ousting Trump who was telling the world he was going to stop their price gouging practices. (its debatable whether he was or could). This also had the added benefit to them of making shed loads of money not only from the US healthcare system but also across the world. :ph34r:

Anyway enough of my depressed ramblings let's get back to assembling the evidence into whether the virus is a recombinant manipulated virus or a chimera.

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