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steppensheep
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Average daily vitamin D supplementation.  

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11 hours ago, jm51 said:

I'm guessing that rather than give us energy and/or shorten our sleeping hours, vit D enables us, as it did with our ancestors.

This is what we're supposed to feel like. Modern living is like running a crippleware app. Kinda works but could be so much better.

If I understand it as per what @The Masked Tulipposted earlier on, it's impossible to get enough vitamin D from the sun if you live in the UK for half of the year, even if you live outside 247. Something to do with latitudes.

Therefore our ancestors must have got it from other methods such as diet. Or they were deficient and hence only lived to their 30s. 

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5 minutes ago, spunko said:

If I understand it as per what @The Masked Tulipposted earlier on, it's impossible to get enough vitamin D from the sun if you live in the UK for half of the year, even if you live outside 247. Something to do with latitudes.

Therefore our ancestors must have got it from other methods such as diet. Or they were deficient and hence only lived to their 30s. 

It is important to note that VitD is a fat soluble hormone that is stored in fat cells and released as needed.  The summertime vitD will still be available for many months after the sun has stopped being a useful source.

So our ancesters were vitD deficient in historical Britain, but only for a couple of months a year.  

Modern Brits don't even get the summer sun vitD and are deficient most of the time.

 

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7 hours ago, Green Devil said:

The latest survey done by spectre on the zoe symptom tracker is indicating that Vit D is effective for females in reducing infection rates but not for males.

Sorry chaps 😭

I saw that -- link https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/vitamins-reduce-covid-risk

and the pre-print https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.27.20239087v1

As with all such types of study, the output data is limited by the input data, which is limited.  

Edited by dgul
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Chewing Grass

250 years ago virtually all white Britains worked outside, year round, now most white Britons work inside all year round under artificial light. It is even worse for those whose skin is not genetically predisposed to living so far North.

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19 minutes ago, spunko said:

If I understand it as per what @The Masked Tulipposted earlier on, it's impossible to get enough vitamin D from the sun if you live in the UK for half of the year, even if you live outside 247. Something to do with latitudes.

Therefore our ancestors must have got it from other methods such as diet. Or they were deficient and hence only lived to their 30s. 

That's because they all got skin cancer as sun cream wasn't as good back then...

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37 minutes ago, spunko said:

If I understand it as per what @The Masked Tulipposted earlier on, it's impossible to get enough vitamin D from the sun if you live in the UK for half of the year, even if you live outside 247. Something to do with latitudes.

Therefore our ancestors must have got it from other methods such as diet. Or they were deficient and hence only lived to their 30s. 

Both probably.

And changing diet.

Offal provides a lot of Vit D.

 

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20 minutes ago, dgul said:

I saw that -- link https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/vitamins-reduce-covid-risk

and the pre-print https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.27.20239087v1

As with all such types of study, the output data is limited by the input data, which is limited.  

I'd suggest the main limitation is that the data period covered (June to October* ish) was biased to the natural/sunlight vitD period.  I didn't bother asking my parents to take vitD until September as there wasn't any need (they're outdoors type folk).  We even gave UK folks in the early days of the epidemic a lovely sunny spring and gave them nothing to do but go for walks and tend to the garden (poor folk weren't allowed to go to the park and sunbathe, though, as they're poor) -- so at the June start point for the data most UK people will have had half-decent blood vitD levels.

The actual benefit period of supplementation would be from October to April -- the period excluded from this data (and mostly hasn't happened yet). The data won't include the bulk of the current data spike.

[* the paper doesn't actually give the end date for the data.  I'd say this is a deficiency in the paper and I'd get them to include it if I was reviewing it.  I'd also get them to report by season, rather than in one big lump (or perhaps report based on 'lull' vs 'spike' in the disease incidence.  Anyway, there's no end date, but it would be fair to assume one month for data analysis and writing and it was submitted for review late Nov, which gets us back to the last data contributing to the analysis being no later than late Oct.  It might even be much earlier than that.]

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34 minutes ago, dgul said:

I saw that -- link https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/vitamins-reduce-covid-risk

and the pre-print https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.27.20239087v1

As with all such types of study, the output data is limited by the input data, which is limited.  

The other limitation is that 'taking vitD supplements' meant 

  • at least 3 times a week
  • for at least 3 months
  • no indication as to dose.

The 'for at least 3 months' part is fine, but the vast majority of the 'yes' respondents will have been taking 400IU for 'probably daily' -- ie, not really that much (but better than nothing).

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1 hour ago, Caravan Monster said:

My job is outdoors and sometimes very physical. Been increasingly struggling being that knackered in the evenings and weekends not really wanting to do much, assumed it was down to the onset of middle age. Surprised how much the vitamin D has helped.

 

Will try to persuade the GP to get blood test, guess it would be worth paying privately if necessary. 

You'll be lucky.

Apparently Oldham GPs are not giving B12 injections and haven't since March. 

 

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1 hour ago, spunko said:

If I understand it as per what @The Masked Tulipposted earlier on, it's impossible to get enough vitamin D from the sun if you live in the UK for half of the year, even if you live outside 247. Something to do with latitudes.

Therefore our ancestors must have got it from other methods such as diet. Or they were deficient and hence only lived to their 30s. 

As others have said above - they will have had their levels topped up to the very max at the end of September or so. That will have lasted a fair time. 

Liver, eggs and oily fish are good food sources. I'm guessing their diets contained more of that than today's also. 

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1 hour ago, Caravan Monster said:

My job is outdoors and sometimes very physical. Been increasingly struggling being that knackered in the evenings and weekends not really wanting to do much, assumed it was down to the onset of middle age. Surprised how much the vitamin D has helped.

 

Will try to persuade the GP to get blood test, guess it would be worth paying privately if necessary. 

I've mentioned before about my intention to get a test...I don't think it costs an arm and a leg and would be very interesting to know personally as I've been taking 3-4000iu for months in liquid form.

Think I'll just order a test kit (£30iirc) and get it done.  Least I can alter my dose accordingly or will give peace of mind I'm not taking sugar water.

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Agree that ancestors would have got a lot from fish etc... But I'm not ruling out either levels being previously higher in said food stuffs or whether the cave men sometimes just walked around tired and deficient (evolution obviously did it's thing over time with lighter skin tone etc)

Definitely don't buy into the perception though that back then was some kind of Eden with God providing Adam with all and sundry and everything being in balance.   

But equally don't buy into the belief (a few medical doctors do though) that today if you eat a healthy balanced diet you can't add any value by taking extra supplaments. 

Reading over my words above guess I don't buy a great deal... Maybe just sign of the times right now and later I'll become more confident in what I'm told to believe or follow

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13 minutes ago, Dogtania said:

Agree that ancestors would have got a lot from fish etc... But I'm not ruling out either levels being previously higher in said food stuffs or whether the cave men sometimes just walked around tired and deficient (evolution obviously did it's thing over time with lighter skin tone etc)

 

That's if they lived long enough for Vit D to matter much. 

Certainly not to 70s-80s when covid1984 really strikes

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1 hour ago, ccc said:

As others have said above - they will have had their levels topped up to the very max at the end of September or so. That will have lasted a fair time. 

Liver, eggs and oily fish are good food sources. I'm guessing their diets contained more of that than today's also. 

Presumably oily fish were generally only available if you lived near to the sea. Mushrooms and fungi would have been a mainstay I suspect.

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2 hours ago, spygirl said:

Both probably.

And changing diet.

Offal provides a lot of Vit D.

 

Haggis is a good thing.  Wish I could expand my repatoire further.  Apart from pate I don't think I eat anything remotely offalish.

When I was younger was game for rabbit, pheasant, toungue.  Don't think I can stomach any of it now sadly.  Tried pigeon sausage last summer and had to swallow it without chewing much.

In the same way I've weaned myself onto anchovies, I'd like to do so with sardines, and liver etc.

Maybe it was here I read that in a pack of wolves the top dog always gets the pick of the liver... Must be good stuff.

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2 minutes ago, Dogtania said:

Tried pigeon sausage last summer and had to swallow it without chewing much.

get over to France and ask for a Andouillette.  Next level grossness.

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53 minutes ago, Bear Hug said:

That's if they lived long enough for Vit D to matter much. 

Certainly not to 70s-80s when covid1984 really strikes

I think a fair few cave ancestors probably lived to quite a ripe old age if they survived childhood, as well as if they were lucky enough to not have an accident that went septic.  Probably got looked after by the community or small group of families.

Covid1984 a bad one though.  Trouble is it seems to not just be about a spot of flu at this point either (potentially worse than flu for some but usually and for most at least in short term IMO not as bad) 

 

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6 minutes ago, Soft lad said:

get over to France and ask for a Andouillette.  Next level grossness.

Second Google link was "things not to eat in France".  Not sure what haggis tastes like to people that never tried but in my experience they usually quite like - probably not quite as striking as those frenchies who seem to push the envelope a bit.  Pigs have pretty wide ranging diets and I question the addition of tomato sauce -mask the taste?  Yes I know haggis is peppery but works well.

Love how you get shops dedicated to sausage/ saussaicon but definitely need to be careful what you order I think.

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1 hour ago, spunko said:

Presumably oily fish were generally only available if you lived near to the sea. Mushrooms and fungi would have been a mainstay I suspect.

I'm guessing most people long ago lived near the sea or / and rivers in the UK for obvious reasons ? 

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5 hours ago, dgul said:

I saw that -- link https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/vitamins-reduce-covid-risk

and the pre-print https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.27.20239087v1

As with all such types of study, the output data is limited by the input data, which is limited.  

They are currently studying 1 mill people. So its hardly limited input. Its easy to perform statistical analysis on the numbers of people taking vit D and their response. Id say its probably as good a sample size and the test youre going to get.

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