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Covid has proven to me that post 2008 austerity could have been easily and cheaply avoided and 2 million homes could have been built with little political will


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I am not a fan of Jeremy Corbyn and never was and his buddy John McDonnell. Along with so many others I scoffed at their spending plans and the idea to build and invest their way out of the financial crisis and austerity, I mean "where the fuck would they get the money" we all said. So many people talked about the housing crisis and even the Tories shed crocodile  tears over the fact that they just could not get the cash to build those homes and many like me thought OK, yes I can see the problem  as there is just no more money and even the outgoing Blair government sniggered over the fact there was no more money.

Then comes Covid and Shazam!! £100's Billions just suddenly appear out of nowhere, just like it did during the financial crash in 2007/08.

My conclusion is Bollox, those 2 million badly needed new social houses could have always been built and with little political will, they always choose not to to build them

 

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Does anybody other than members of HPC, Whitehall and the greedy developer cartel actually want 2M houses built? I'd rather 2M were knocked down.   We don't need 2M houses, we need a populat

In the end they would have just given them to more gimmigrants as the boomers die off. Social housing is a double edged sword unless you have a government that looks after the indigenous natives

That's the thing, there is a perception there is no social housing. In London for example 1 in 6 properties are social housing, that's in a back drop of effectively none being built in the last 20 yea

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3 minutes ago, haroldshand said:

I am not a fan of Jeremy Corbyn and never was and his buddy John McDonnell. Along with so many others I scoffed at their spending plans and the idea to build and invest their way out of the financial crisis and austerity, I mean "where the fuck would they get the money" we all said. So many people talked about the housing crisis and even the Tories shed crocodile  tears over the fact that they just could not get the cash to build those homes and many like me thought OK, yes I can see the problem  as there is just no more money and even the outgoing Blair government sniggered over the fact there was no more money.

Then comes Covid and Shazam!! £100's Billions just suddenly appear out of nowhere, just like it did during the financial crash in 2007/08.

My conclusion is Bollox, those 2 million badly needed new social houses could have always been built and with little political will, they always choose not to to build them

I'd say Covid is a different scenario in that it's not just us tanking the economy.

Not saying it's the right approach but the billions we will be spending will be matched by other nations and so on a global level the whole thing is fucked. As opposed to going it alone and basically fucking sterling for decades to come.

 

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Hows it proven this?

You are assuming things are done and theres no future consequence.

The West is at the arse end of a Chinese induced low 'inflations' - mainyl as the inflation stats ignore the assets that have inflated.

The Us is running deficits because the US is running deficit. And the US was running deficits as China was buying US debt.

The US still controls the cost of money.

China will soon start exporting inflation. The US will raise rates -maybe too quickly or massively, but theyll go up as the money printed is going into the economy rather than bank balance sheets.

 

Its easy the the UK to adjust to lowering interest rates.

Its going to be very hard for the UK to adjust as IUS increases rates and the UK has to follow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Chewing Grass said:

In the end they would have just given them to more gimmigrants as the boomers die off.

Social housing is a double edged sword unless you have a government that looks after the indigenous natives first.

Yep that is totally true, but that's another argument.

But one of the main reasons the British people are paying for expensive housing is because they are fighting like rats in a sack for the little housing there is when more could have been built, and yes immigration has played a massive part in that.

A shortage of housing is deliberate IMO as it keeps prices high and certain people happy

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Just now, Chewing Grass said:

In the end they would have just given them to more gimmigrants as the boomers die off.

Social housing is a double edged sword unless you have a government that looks after the indigenous natives first.

That's the thing, there is a perception there is no social housing. In London for example 1 in 6 properties are social housing, that's in a back drop of effectively none being built in the last 20 years or so, save for the odd token one or two next in with 100 new private flats.

The reality is they have found plenty of them for people coming in for elsewhere, but as a UK citizen you won't be getting one.

Case in point Grenfell, lots of questions to be asked.... the main one is why it was full of non-UK nationals.

 

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4 minutes ago, gilf said:

I'd say Covid is a different scenario in that it's not just us tanking the economy.

Not saying it's the right approach but the billions we will be spending will be matched by other nations and so on a global level the whole thing is fucked. As opposed to going it alone and basically fucking sterling for decades to come.

 

Economies can get a pass as log as the other ecnomies are doing the same.

Be it all going tits up in 2007/2008 for the same reason.

Or covid.

However ...

The interst rate cycle is built in to the business cycle/economy.

They will go up.

Thats when it gets hard.

 

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4 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Hows it proven this?

You are assuming things are done and theres no future consequence.

The West is at the arse end of a Chinese induced low 'inflations' - mainyl as the inflation stats ignore the assets that have inflated.

The Us is running deficits because the US is running deficit. And the US was running deficits as China was buying US debt.

The US still controls the cost of money.

China will soon start exporting inflation. The US will raise rates -maybe too quickly or massively, but theyll go up as the money printed is going into the economy rather than bank balance sheets.

 

Its easy the the UK to adjust to lowering interest rates.

Its going to be very hard for the UK to adjust as IUS increases rates and the UK has to follow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am not saying there would not of been consequences, but I am saying it was very doable 

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13 minutes ago, haroldshand said:

I am not a fan of Jeremy Corbyn and never was and his buddy John McDonnell. Along with so many others I scoffed at their spending plans and the idea to build and invest their way out of the financial crisis and austerity, I mean "where the fuck would they get the money" we all said. So many people talked about the housing crisis and even the Tories shed crocodile  tears over the fact that they just could not get the cash to build those homes and many like me thought OK, yes I can see the problem  as there is just no more money and even the outgoing Blair government sniggered over the fact there was no more money.

Then comes Covid and Shazam!! £100's Billions just suddenly appear out of nowhere, just like it did during the financial crash in 2007/08.

My conclusion is Bollox, those 2 million badly needed new social houses could have always been built and with little political will, they always choose not to to build them

 

They are just following what the other western country’s are doing in every way financially and medically 

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4 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Economies can get a pass as log as the other ecnomies are doing the same.

Be it all going tits up in 2007/2008 for the same reason.

Or covid.

However ...

The interst rate cycle is built in to the business cycle/economy.

They will go up.

Thats when it gets hard.

 

Totally agree, point being we are all fucked rather than Corbyn fucking us and us alone.

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4 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Doable for how long?

Til base rates hit 4%.

The UK is already at a point where it risks currency collapse.

 

 

The UK is financially supporting a fucked Banking system as well as zombie businesses, we are paying out more in welfare than ever before because employment does not work for too many.

Public loos shut, allotments built on, community centres closed down, housing is getting more expensive and worse quality, cash is become devalued bit by bit anyway.

I agree in part with you, but government policy is a slowly boiling frog one where we will arrive at your scenario regardless, just later.

And for the record and I have already said it, I never supported Corbyns spending plans, but I feel we should invest in housing for WORKING people

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1 minute ago, haroldshand said:

The UK is financially supporting a fucked Banking system as well as zombie businesses, we are paying out more in welfare than ever before because employment does not work for too many.

Public loos shut, allotments built on, community centres closed down, housing is getting more expensive and worse quality, cash is become devalued bit by bit anyway.

I agree in part with you, but government policy is a slowly boiling frog one where we will arrive at your scenario regardless, just later.

And for the record and I have already said it, I never supported Corbyns spending plans, but I feel we should invest in housing for WORKING people

No its not.

There was some short term solvency 2008-2010, This was solved by banks beign forced hold much more equity and capital and reducing their leverage.

The UK is supporting a bloated benefit and public sector.

Make 90% of people  pay for their housing with their hard earned and youll quickly find out the UK housing demand.

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, haroldshand said:

I am not a fan of Jeremy Corbyn and never was and his buddy John McDonnell. Along with so many others I scoffed at their spending plans and the idea to build and invest their way out of the financial crisis and austerity, I mean "where the fuck would they get the money" we all said. So many people talked about the housing crisis and even the Tories shed crocodile  tears over the fact that they just could not get the cash to build those homes and many like me thought OK, yes I can see the problem  as there is just no more money and even the outgoing Blair government sniggered over the fact there was no more money.

Then comes Covid and Shazam!! £100's Billions just suddenly appear out of nowhere, just like it did during the financial crash in 2007/08.

My conclusion is Bollox, those 2 million badly needed new social houses could have always been built and with little political will, they always choose not to to build them

 I agree that IF your going to borrow/print money on a massive scale then housing is the best thing to spend it on, but neither tories nor labour have any appetite for cheap housing for the masses.

Edited by goldbug9999
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2 minutes ago, spygirl said:

No its not.

There was some short term solvency 2008-2010, This was solved by banks beign forced hold much more equity and capital and reducing their leverage.

The UK is supporting a bloated benefit and public sector.

Make 90% of people  pay for their housing with their hard earned and youll quickly find out the UK housing demand.

 

 

 

Are you serious??

Banks and the financial system were hours from total collapse, the only thing that saved them was QE and government support using tax payers money. If you seriously think that the financial sector has been repaired then we totally differ on that, I call it just spinning plates.

"90%  of people pay for their housing"... Never going to happen with the size of the welfare system and Immigrants we are taking on, pointless even discussing that as an option but one I would agree with if we lived in fairy world

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52 minutes ago, gilf said:

That's the thing, there is a perception there is no social housing. In London for example 1 in 6 properties are social housing, that's in a back drop of effectively none being built in the last 20 years or so, save for the odd token one or two next in with 100 new private flats.

The reality is they have found plenty of them for people coming in for elsewhere, but as a UK citizen you won't be getting one.

Case in point Grenfell, lots of questions to be asked.... the main one is why it was full of non-UK nationals.

 

I will never forget the documentary I watched on channel 4 in Tower Hamlets where one woman not getting what she wanted in housing came out with "it's because I am black". Putting that one aside though One cheeky Asian c***  who was just a pissy little waiter in a curry house and his non working wife and three kids were shown and offered a near £400,000 market value property and the woman initially refused it because it never had private parking, even though non of them could drive,

The person showing them the flat stared into her eyes and said "I have several people outside that door now waiting to take it, decide now" she of course back down

That's how fucked this country is right now, 20 year servicemen on the streets and we are getting this

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16 minutes ago, haroldshand said:

Are you serious??

Banks and the financial system were hours from total collapse, the only thing that saved them was QE and government support using tax payers money. If you seriously think that the financial sector has been repaired then we totally differ on that, I call it just spinning plates.

"90%  of people pay for their housing"... Never going to happen with the size of the welfare system and Immigrants we are taking on, pointless even discussing that as an option but one I would agree with if we lived in fairy world

You said:

The UK is financially supporting a fucked Banking system 

The UK hasnt been ,since ~2010ish.

There is no ongoing UKGOV support of the banks.

What happened is that banks - the everyday, high street banks, had borrowe4d to much and hit a liquidity crisis.

The BoE extended credit to some, let others go under.

The 'money' that saved the banks was not tax payers  it was a electronic credit.

They price of that credit is very hard - you can se by the vast reduction in banking jobs and the much reduced leverage and lending.

The financial sector has not been repaired. Its been deleveraged and forced to hold more capital.

 

90% of working age people paying for their housing happened til very recently - mid 90s.

As far as QE savng the banking sector? - Are you nuts? Do you know how banks make money?

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, MrPin said:

I agree with @haroldshand. There's a need for more social housing at reasonable rent. It could have been done. I don't care who goes in them. That was rather socialist of me.

Theres plenty of social housing.

They just need to allocate to those who ned it now, rasther than let people remain in it after their kids are 18.

And they need to stop giving it to people with no rights to it - migrants and no nationals.

 

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15 minutes ago, MrPin said:

I agree with @haroldshand. There's a need for more social housing at reasonable rent. It could have been done. I don't care who goes in them. That was rather socialist of me.

It really isn't a socialist issue and it's why I have backed off from my John Smith days. Anyone willing  to work 50 plus hour weeks and do so for years deserves first dibs and to be at least housed well. 

Those that make welfare a lifestyle should live in the dross

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16 minutes ago, MrPin said:

I agree with @haroldshand. There's a need for more social housing at reasonable rent. It could have been done. I don't care who goes in them. That was rather socialist of me.

Agree also, gov should be spending £25bn on building and renting houses, not paying private landlords. 

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1 hour ago, haroldshand said:

Yep that is totally true, but that's another argument.

But one of the main reasons the British people are paying for expensive housing is because they are fighting like rats in a sack for the little housing there is when more could have been built, and yes immigration has played a massive part in that.

A shortage of housing is deliberate IMO as it keeps prices high and certain people happy

House prices are largely a function of interest rates.  If they put IRs up prices would go down.

But shelter always costs ~1/3rd of your money (1/3 tax, 1/3 other essentials with a bit left over).  

There is a complication to this, because at a time of long-term lowering of interest rates you get inflation eroding the debt (if you can get the debt, which was tough in the 1970's) -- this results in things like the 'housing ladder' (which is only an effect of lowering interest rates) and the BTL boom.

The reason housing is 'in shortage' is largely because they've incentivised (through ever increasing prices) older folk to stick to their large multi-bedroom houses with large gardens, even though they only use a fraction of their asset that would be better utilised by those with kids at home.  There's also a problem of property being used to 'bank cash' (largely by overseas buyers), but this is minor in comparison.

If they sorted that out housing would become a bit more 'normal' in this country. 

But they don't have to -- we're at the end of a cycle and change will come anyway.

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15 minutes ago, haroldshand said:

It really isn't a socialist issue and it's why I have backed off from my John Smith days. Anyone willing  to work 50 plus hour weeks and do so for years deserves first dibs and to be at least housed well. 

Those that make welfare a lifestyle should live in the dross

Yeah its kind of weird, the so called socialist politicians don't want cheap social housing as half of them own BTLs.

Fundamentally housing isn't a free market because land isn't, and cannot be since land is limited, a free market. The closest you can get to a free market in land and housing is a) some sort of LVT and b) the gov to set a low price floor using its control of land and ability to freely build to saturate the market with cheap rentals.

Edited by goldbug9999
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