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New vaccine and moral dilemmas


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So,  given tnat the world is now saved... Are there any moral questions...

Should oldies get it first and act as guinea pigs? Or should younger priductive people get it?

Should a rich country like us,  buy up loads of vaccines for all their population ahead of a poorer country who cant afford any?

Will anti vaxxer loony brexiteer racists be ostrachised from society?

......

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I nominate the health secretary Handcuck to go on the bbc live with his wife, father, mother, daughter, son or someone close being given the vaccine. Similar to when Gummer posed with his daughte

Given that the UK has got every single decision wrong from the beginning of Covid until now (I can't think of anything they've got right since they caved in and locked down), isn't the UK being the fi

Always been pro vaccine (sister had whooping cough as it was the one jab she didn't have due to the scare in he 70's. Fucking Panorama didn't show you a kid with the actual virus. Nearly killed her).

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29 minutes ago, NewryH said:

So,  given tnat the world is now saved... Are there any moral questions...

Should oldies get it first and act as guinea pigs? Or should younger priductive people get it?

Should a rich country like us,  buy up loads of vaccines for all their population ahead of a poorer country who cant afford any?

Will anti vaxxer loony brexiteer racists be ostrachised from society?

......

I think MP's should get it first followed by the media. Then in 12 months if they have no serious side effect we will be fine to role out to those that want it 

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1 minute ago, ad_ceng said:

I think MP's should get it first followed by the media. Then in 12 months if they have no serious side effect we will be fine to role out to those that want it 

How would you know?

What's the difference between covid-19 vaccine side effects and snorting coke 24-7?

Who the fuck knows? 

 

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1 minute ago, MrLibertyRedux said:

Always been pro vaccine (sister had whooping cough as it was the one jab she didn't have due to the scare in he 70's. Fucking Panorama didn't show you a kid with the actual virus. Nearly killed her).

However.

Contemporary Big Pharma, lined up in a row, snouts twitching to be dipped in to a trough worth billions.

New vaccine, using new and as far as I am aware untried techniques involving genetic engineering, rushed to production, not extensively tested and most likely of dubious efficacy.

So safe (and this is the absolutely key point here) that the manufacturer's are already exempt from prosecution under the law if anything goes wrong?

Fuck off. Only an idiot would believe it.

yup not a fucking chance I will be having this Covid seems to be flu like and I think many cases are flu (it seems to have been cured this year) 

It was all about getting rid of trump I am pretty certain now it was all about that 

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5 minutes ago, ad_ceng said:

they are exempt from damages claims 

This still is not widely known.

I get the "look" from others when I mention it.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-astrazeneca-exc/exclusive-astrazeneca-gets-partial-immunity-in-low-cost-eu-vaccine-deal-idUKKCN26G0NH

Socialisation of risk costs too.

This issue of legal immunity in the States, explained here.

https://theconversation.com/big-pharmas-safety-pledge-isnt-enough-to-build-public-confidence-in-covid-19-vaccine-heres-what-will-145822

You get a whole different "look" when you show these or similar articles.

Some vaccines could be pushed by public health law or the COVID act. The threat of bullying or coercive control,  likely in health settings. It wont be long in my view that capacity and consent to various treatments, something that field deals with, will cause reflection on how a vaccince becomes mandatory. Oh, they exist already. Hep B/C testimg for instance. The former is a with an established vaccine though. This isnt the case here.

And..if all.else fails..who will.force it on you? Really.

One email sent around, for example, that health regulatory bodies might stand back and throw those administering it ..via force...on a capacitous person...on to a legal pyre to come in the future.....will stop most dead in their tracks.

Lots of bluff and bluster to come here.

I expect health regulatory bodies to crank up and say were behind you.  Then gander over at their independent indemnity bodies....very likely to say beware.

 

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3 minutes ago, The Grey Man said:

This still is not widely known.

I get the "look" from others when I mention it.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-astrazeneca-exc/exclusive-astrazeneca-gets-partial-immunity-in-low-cost-eu-vaccine-deal-idUKKCN26G0NH

Socialisation of risk costs too.

This issue of legal immunity in the States, explained here.

https://theconversation.com/big-pharmas-safety-pledge-isnt-enough-to-build-public-confidence-in-covid-19-vaccine-heres-what-will-145822

You get a whole different "look" when you show these or similar articles.

Some vaccines could be pushed by public health law or the COVID act. The threat of bullying or coercive control,  likely in health settings. It wont be long in my view that capacity and consent to various treatments, something that field deals with, will cause reflection on how a vaccince becomes mandatory. Oh, they exist already. Hep B/C testimg for instance. The former is a with an established vaccine though. This isnt the case here.

And..if all.else fails..who will.force it on you? Really.

One email sent around, for example, that health regulatory bodies might stand back and throw those administering it ..via force...on a capacitous person...on to a legal pyre to come in the future.....will stop most dead in their tracks.

Lots of bluff and bluster to come here.

I expect health regulatory bodies to crank up and say were behind you.  Then gander over at their independent indemnity bodies....very likely to say beware.

 

Very good point. I don't think you would have to turn up at the Royal College of Nursing with small arms to have their Wimmin running for the hills for instance.

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1 hour ago, MrLibertyRedux said:

Always been pro vaccine (sister had whooping cough as it was the one jab she didn't have due to the scare in he 70's. Fucking Panorama didn't show you a kid with the actual virus. Nearly killed her).

However.

Contemporary Big Pharma, lined up in a row, snouts twitching to be dipped in to a trough worth billions.

New vaccine, using new and as far as I am aware untried techniques involving genetic engineering, rushed to production, not extensively tested and most likely of dubious efficacy.

So safe (and this is the absolutely key point here) that the manufacturer's are already exempt from prosecution under the law if anything goes wrong?

Fuck off. Only an idiot would believe it.

It's always about the money. Who cares if it doesn't work or kills thousands. It's a once in a generation chance for pharma to make a killing. No wonder there are 47 vaccine candidates lined up. 

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2 hours ago, Van Lady said:

I nominate the health secretary Handcuck to go on the bbc live with his wife, father, mother, daughter, son or someone close being given the vaccine.

Similar to when Gummer posed with his daughter eating a beef burger in the bse era.

Next up all the cabinet plus wives, family etc.

Won’t happen of course!

Nothing will convince me to take the COVID vaccine. No reason to do it because I’m fairly healthy in my 60’s and generally avoid big pharma drugs. Plus I don’t personally feel that COVID is a threat in the grand scheme of things that could end my life.

Anyway, if the fearful in the population want to be guinea pigs, go head....

 

Not sure that would be entirely fair on the kids... :)

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Jeremy Vine asking on his BBC R2 lunchtime program yesterday (10 Nov) whether spreading fake news regarding vaccines should be a criminal offence.

Or put another way, if you disagree with official government policy.

I didn’t actually hear the show. That on the trailer, plus the revelation that a former Labour prime minister from the 1997-2007 era whose name I will not mention, would be giving his thoughts, made me realise  it would be better for my health and that of my radio not to listen.

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9 hours ago, MrLibertyRedux said:

Always been pro vaccine (sister had whooping cough as it was the one jab she didn't have due to the scare in he 70's. Fucking Panorama didn't show you a kid with the actual virus. Nearly killed her).

However.

Contemporary Big Pharma, lined up in a row, snouts twitching to be dipped in to a trough worth billions.

New vaccine, using new and as far as I am aware untried techniques involving genetic engineering, rushed to production, not extensively tested and most likely of dubious efficacy.

So safe (and this is the absolutely key point here) that the manufacturer's are already exempt from prosecution under the law if anything goes wrong?

Fuck off. Only an idiot would believe it.

 

It's most likely not something to worry about, but until I've educated myself further a current concern is around those who may go on to start families - the young and children. It will take a generation to realise if the vaccine (or reaction to the vaccine) causes damage to sperm and/or eggs or fetal development.

Something along these lines:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/the-toxins-that-affected-your-great-grandparents-could-be-in-your-genes-180947644/

 

Although the virus itself may turn out to damage DNA or cause infertility so the vaccine could be the lesser evil. Take mumps as an example.

 

If I was 70 plus then having the vaccine is a no brainer.

Everyone else? I have no idea at the moment. One thing for sure, I'm not going to be rushing to have it.

 

 

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I only buy insurance if a) I am legally required to, or b) I couldn't pay for what I would claim myself. A policy that is likely to pay only small claim will cost more when administrative fees are taken into account.

Vaccines strike me as not that different. I take into account the risk of the vaccine (the cost of the insurance) versus the risk of the disease (the cost of not having the insurance). I'd rather trust my immune system and accept an extremely remote chance of anything worse than a mild flu.

Unlike car insurance, I would rather be a criminal than be legally compelled. My body, my choice.

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28 minutes ago, Craig said:

Trouble is, you might not want to take the vaccine, but what if you're not allowed to work/go to the pub/go shopping etc without a certificate?!

That would be illegal under the nuremburg codes - not that it will stop these fascist fuckers in charge

best thing we could do is revolt kill all elected politicans, senior civil service and the rothschilds etc 

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2 minutes ago, apples said:

I only buy insurance if a) I am legally required to, or b) I couldn't pay for what I would claim myself. A policy that is likely to pay only small claim will cost more when administrative fees are taken into account.

Vaccines strike me as not that different. I take into account the risk of the vaccine (the cost of the insurance) versus the risk of the disease (the cost of not having the insurance). I'd rather trust my immune system and accept an extremely remote chance of anything worse than a mild flu.

Unlike car insurance, I would rather be a criminal than be legally compelled. My body, my choice.

An extremely reasonable position to take.

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11 hours ago, Van Lady said:

I nominate the health secretary Handcuck to go on the bbc live with his wife, father, mother, daughter, son or someone close being given the vaccine.

Similar to when Gummer posed with his daughter eating a beef burger in the bse era.

Next up all the cabinet plus wives, family etc.

Won’t happen of course!

Nothing will convince me to take the COVID vaccine. No reason to do it because I’m fairly healthy in my 60’s and generally avoid big pharma drugs. Plus I don’t personally feel that COVID is a threat in the grand scheme of things that could end my life.

Anyway, if the fearful in the population want to be guinea pigs, go head....

 

I came here to say the very same thing.

I am going to be so cautious about taking any kind of injection in this day and age on mass. Why is that I am getting so paranoid in my advancing years:)

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1 hour ago, Craig said:

Trouble is, you might not want to take the vaccine, but what if you're not allowed to work/go to the pub/go shopping etc without a certificate?!

But if the vaccine is freely available to those that want it, then they are protected* and so it doesn't matter if non vaxxers mingle with them.

 

*either actually or in the mind of the receiver

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11 hours ago, Stuffed said:

Is it safe for people with other illnesses and already on other medications?

Maybe.  I guess we'll find out next year.

[They don't even know if the concept (mRNA) is safe, whether it is safe for those who've already had Covid but didn't know and whether it doesn't case an extreme reaction with infections of similar but different viruses (as is often the case with coronavirus vaccines)]

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