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It Makes You Wonder


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For me it’s always been this:

https://www.sscc.edu/home/jdavidso/Math/Goedel.html
 

(look away now Carl it’s Jew-science).

Put briefly, if you can come up with a set of rules that are complete enough to describe basic arithmetic, then there will always be things about whole numbers that you can’t prove using those rules. It’s almost as if the universe was deliberately designed not to be fully knowable. 

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Generally I agree, but whenever I've ever visited Wales in the past I've found the weather to be entirely predictable. Sometimes to the point that the first drops hit the windscreen as I'm driving acr

Tell you what makes me wonder, where the fuck does all the orange juice come from? have you seen how much juice you get from an orange? Fuck all. If ever there was proof were living in a simulati

I am disappointed by the content of this thread so:  

21 minutes ago, MrPin said:

Not realising that some things are un-knowable is a failure of some modern science genres. Particularly anything with a chaotic element. No, a bigger computer will not predict the weather better.

The weather is an interesting example as it contains repeating patterns that look to be predictable but are in fact chaotic. As a consequence the normal weather forecast would be that the weather tomorrow will be similar to  today except when it is not (ie it will more or less repeat a pattern with minor variations until it suffers a pattern shift  to something new). Thus it can give the illusion of predictability but in reality the shift from one state to another can not really be forecast).

Edited by Virgil Caine
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1 hour ago, MrPin said:

The Met office should spend more on seaweed, and barometers, and less on big computers.

The thing about Chaotic systems is that they are simultaneously deterministic and unpredictable over a given period of time. Inputs effect outputs but the differences in results can be huge. Most weather prediction models are reasonably accurate upto 3 days in advance, less so over 5 days and Fantasy Island 10 days plus out.

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1 hour ago, Virgil Caine said:

The weather is an interesting example as it contains repeating patterns that look to be predictable but are in fact chaotic. As a consequence the normal weather forecast would be that the weather tomorrow will be similar to  today except when it is not (ie it will more or less repeat a pattern with minor variations until it suffers a pattern shift  to something new). Thus it can give the illusion of predictability but in reality the shift from one state to another can not really be forecast).

Generally I agree, but whenever I've ever visited Wales in the past I've found the weather to be entirely predictable. Sometimes to the point that the first drops hit the windscreen as I'm driving across the Severn.

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2 hours ago, Virgil Caine said:

The weather is an interesting example as it contains repeating patterns that look to be predictable but are in fact chaotic.

Weather is indeed a great/interesting example of a very complex system.

On the one hand,  we can see weather fronts moving around in satellite images and predict with a degree of accuracy where they are moving to (see hurricane projected paths etc).  The problem is the further out you forecast,  the more small errors are compounded to quickly make the forecast meaningless.  Then you have the further issue that weather as experienced by people on the ground is extremely localised,  so you might be standing in a field where it is raining at one end and not at the other.  A small error in the path of the precipitation makes a big difference to what is experienced on the ground.  Particularly when "patches of rain" are forecast.  The system is still too complex to model based on a relatively small number of feedback data points.

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1 hour ago, Libspero said:

Weather is indeed a great/interesting example of a very complex system.

On the one hand,  we can see weather fronts moving around in satellite images and predict with a degree of accuracy where they are moving to (see hurricane projected paths etc).  The problem is the further out you forecast,  the more small errors are compounded to quickly make the forecast meaningless.  Then you have the further issue that weather as experienced by people on the ground is extremely localised,  so you might be standing in a field where it is raining at one end and not at the other.  A small error in the path of the precipitation makes a big difference to what is experienced on the ground.  Particularly when "patches of rain" are forecast.  The system is still too complex to model based on a relatively small number of feedback data points.

I think it's more pertinent to ask why we even bother. My parents watch the weather forecast religiously. It doesn't affect them in any way.

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The Universe's expansion means that there are things we can see now that we won't be able to see in a moment... and there it goes.... It went even before we had time to look at it.

Everything is moving away from us faster and faster. No, not the stuff in our Local Group where Gravity seems to keep us all pretty constant. But that other stuff. The stuff further away. Its going away faster and faster... and seems to be accelerating.

We are going to have to invent some truly amazing kit to ever see them again, let alone to visit them... and how do you visit something that you cannot see... It would be like Cabot sailing off in search of China and hoping for the best.

Perhaps there are clues all around us as to the origin or state of existence. Almost as if some supreme being was, deliberately or not, leaving us bread crumbs.

This explains everything.

 

Edited by The Masked Tulip
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8 hours ago, TheBlueCat said:

whole numbers

There are whole numbers so large that they can't be written down:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham's_number (one of the smaller ones)

Quote

Graham's number cannot be expressed even by power towers of the form a b c ⋅ ⋅ ⋅ {\displaystyle a^{b^{c^{\cdot ^{\cdot ^{\cdot }}}}}} a^{{b^{{c^{{\cdot ^{{\cdot ^{{\cdot }}}}}}}}}}.

But they still have a last digit, and in the case of Graham's number, this can be calculated!

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4 minutes ago, Transistor Man said:

I found that one earlier. I thought the answer too Old Testament. @TheBlueCat@Carl FimbleAlso sneakily Canadian. Not one Moose mentioned.

I also like Maxwell's equations, and Kipling's cakes.

Edited by MrPin
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17 minutes ago, Melchett said:

No twin necked guitars....

 

 

I absolutely love Tom Lehrer! Still alive and he just put all his songs in the public domain:

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/10/21/satirist-tom-lehrer-put-his-songs-into-public-domain/

I'm surprised the wokesters haven't cancelled him yet for stuff like this:

 

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