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I keep reading about business saying that they can use 'common law' and 'freeman of the land' as reasons for the lock down of business being illegal.  

The guy below on Twitter is telling the police he can prosecute them for treason and issue them with £10,000 fines.

Does anyone know if these approaches have a realistic legal standing or are these people deluding themselves?

 

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8 minutes ago, MrPin said:

I can see why small businesses/shopkeepers are frustrated. If you run a scented candle shop (good luck to you!), you have been ordered to shut. Tesco can still sell scented candles.

Scented candles are for poofs...!

They should sell padded green waistcoats to the landed gentry, and Labrador arse-cleaning wipes...

 

XYY

Edited by The XYY Man
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IIRC no 'freeman on the land' common-law defence has been successful in a British court.

It does seem to be the case though that refusing to accept a Fixed Penalty Notice is worth doing. The police then have to issue a summons and it has to go to court (not sure if that is magistrates or county) and apparently it's a faff so they try to avoid it.

 

 

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Some issues like warrants ( certain areas of law that touch my work) seem easier to obtain as the Magistrates have been doing these applications on line since March time. Couldnt have those upstanding individuals being exposed....to the virus that is.

Re the OP question. I would say The COVID Act as statute law over rides any form of common law in this area. This is the normal case in grey areas where there is statute law that can be deferred to.

Said before....If you can stand a dry read of close to 400 pages ( often repeated text) you get an idea of just how encompassing this Act is. Its been out there since March..it in retrospect must have been drawn up way before COVID. An off the shelf legislation for such circumstances. It is way to thorough in control to have been dreamt up so quick. Something that was gathering dust till required.

 

Warrants...such as not complying with testing or isolation...include the removal of all digital storage on execution amongst other over arching powers. You tell me the purpose there and link with the original offence? 

It was belt and braces. Only as we go forward are we starting to see the Acts wider powers.

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2 hours ago, The Grey Man said:

Some issues like warrants ( certain areas of law that touch my work) seem easier to obtain as the Magistrates have been doing these applications on line since March time. Couldnt have those upstanding individuals being exposed....to the virus that is.

Re the OP question. I would say The COVID Act as statute law over rides any form of common law in this area. This is the normal case in grey areas where there is statute law that can be deferred to.

Said before....If you can stand a dry read of close to 400 pages ( often repeated text) you get an idea of just how encompassing this Act is. Its been out there since March..it in retrospect must have been drawn up way before COVID. An off the shelf legislation for such circumstances. It is way to thorough in control to have been dreamt up so quick. Something that was gathering dust till required.

 

Warrants...such as not complying with testing or isolation...include the removal of all digital storage on execution amongst other over arching powers. You tell me the purpose there and link with the original offence? 

It was belt and braces. Only as we go forward are we starting to see the Acts wider powers.

I'm pretty sure they've had stuff like this in place for decades. I remember reading a book in the 80s supposedly an expose of secret government legislation ready to be put in place in the event of a nuclear war, it included stuff like summary executions of looters and some sort of medieval-stocks type punishments for lesser offences.

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4 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said:

I'm pretty sure they've had stuff like this in place for decades. I remember reading a book in the 80s supposedly an expose of secret government legislation ready to be put in place in the event of a nuclear war, it included stuff like summary executions of looters and some sort of medieval-stocks type punishments for lesser offences.

It makes sense.

I wonder how far they have deviated from the fixed plans?

They..the gov..definitely use the media in a controlled way.

Almostba contrived drama. The business bit..I dunno... was this scale figured in? Seems a high price. 

Who knows. I bet half of this will be covered in those 100 year release documents.

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On 16/11/2020 at 19:56, The Grey Man said:

It makes sense.

I wonder how far they have deviated from the fixed plans?

They..the gov..definitely use the media in a controlled way.

Almostba contrived drama. The business bit..I dunno... was this scale figured in? Seems a high price. 

Who knows. I bet half of this will be covered in those 100 year release documents.

That's assuming we go back to any kind of 'normal' where government papers etc are released to the public.

With this lot it's more likely they will be burning more files than a German general on VE Day.

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On 16/11/2020 at 16:32, Austin Allegro said:

It does seem to be the case though that refusing to accept a Fixed Penalty Notice is worth doing. The police then have to issue a summons and it has to go to court

The police temporarily stopped issuing £10k fines this week for precisely this reason.  People were just going to court, pleading poverty and (presumably) being let off.

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1 hour ago, Libspero said:

The police temporarily stopped issuing £10k fines this week for precisely this reason.  People were just going to court, pleading poverty and (presumably) being let off.

The whole system relies on the threat and people being compliant...if everyone challenged the system, went to court, and then still refused to pay it would fall apart...this is why they make early payment less expensive, to encourage compliance against a greater threat.

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4 hours ago, MrXxxx said:

The whole system relies on the threat and people being compliant...if everyone challenged the system, went to court, and then still refused to pay it would fall apart...this is why they make early payment less expensive, to encourage compliance against a greater threat.

How exactly does a court ascertain your financial situation? Can they order you to produce bank statements etc?

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6 hours ago, Austin Allegro said:

How exactly does a court ascertain your financial situation? Can they order you to produce bank statements etc?

Good question, I assume they can request these from the banks anyway, but can they order the bank to pay from your account if you refuse?...I would think this unlikely.

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21 hours ago, Austin Allegro said:

How exactly does a court ascertain your financial situation? Can they order you to produce bank statements etc?

I don't know, but I wonder if they do the reverse and make you show that you're on benefits to receive a lesser fine / pay in installments.

The questions then becomes "how do the benefits people ascertain your financial situation?"

I don't know that either :)

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