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It's all about the fish


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You may of heard the latest Brexit dealing means the UK has already offered the EU 50% of our fish. To which the EU have already refused and said we'll let you have 20%.  What utter cunts. That's our politicians and theirs. And this was supposed to be what was Brexit was about. 

It's always been about keeping the French fisherman happy. 

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3 minutes ago, Green Devil said:

You may of heard the latest Brexit dealing means the UK has already offered the EU 50% of our fish. To which the EU have already refused and said we'll let you have 20%.  What utter cunts. That's our politicians and theirs. And this was supposed to be what was Brexit was about. 

It's always been about keeping the French fisherman happy. 

Do we have the fleet to fish 20% of our waters? If not, why not agree a sliding scale of quotas over a 10-15 year period while we build up a trawler fleet. In return we get minimal interruption of goods & services in & out of the EU. There’s no point ejecting EU fishermen from our waters if we don’t have the infrastructure to exploit it.

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4 minutes ago, JohnThePessimist said:

Do we have the fleet to fish 20% of our waters? If not, why not agree a sliding scale of quotas over a 10-15 year period while we build up a trawler fleet. In return we get minimal interruption of goods & services in & out of the EU. There’s no point ejecting EU fishermen from our waters if we don’t have the infrastructure to exploit it.

Surely the point to counter is that if the French and Spanish aren't pillaging most of our fish the stocks will recover? 

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Just now, Green Devil said:

Surely the point to counter is that if the French and Spanish aren't pillaging most of our fish the stocks will recover? 

The stocks have been recovering for several years under the current quota system. Do we (RN) have the resources to even police our fishing grounds? It’s sometimes better to compromise on what you can’t exploit, nor protect.

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2 minutes ago, JohnThePessimist said:

The stocks have been recovering for several years under the current quota system. Do we (RN) have the resources to even police our fishing grounds? It’s sometimes better to compromise on what you can’t exploit, nor protect.

I was watching it on Sky and the EU representative had the cheek (or ignorance) to say that as the fish spawned in eire waters but then swam over to Scotland where they spent the rest of their life, they were just as much the EUs fish as the Scottish/UKs 😂😂

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17 minutes ago, JohnThePessimist said:

Do we have the fleet to fish 20% of our waters? If not, why not agree a sliding scale of quotas over a 10-15 year period while we build up a trawler fleet. In return we get minimal interruption of goods & services in & out of the EU. There’s no point ejecting EU fishermen from our waters if we don’t have the infrastructure to exploit it.

That bits gone.  We'll be outside of the single market.

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1 minute ago, Green Devil said:

I was watching it on Sky and the EU representative had the cheek (or ignorance) to say that as the fish spawned in eire waters but then swam over to Scotland where they spent the rest of their life, they were just as much the EUs fish as the Scottish/UKs 😂😂

Remarkably fish don’t carry passports. However UK waters are surrounded by EU waters. If we deny our waters to EU boats, and if the fish do migrate, all we’re doing is saving the fish for the EU anyway. Let’s agree a compromise that let’s us build a fishing fleet, gives them temporary access, and we get something in return.

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3 minutes ago, Green Devil said:

I was watching it on Sky and the EU representative had the cheek (or ignorance) to say that as the fish spawned in eire waters but then swam over to Scotland where they spent the rest of their life, they were just as much the EUs fish as the Scottish/UKs 😂😂

It's like French surrender monkeys. No matter what country they are in when they surrender... they are still French.

Is that what he means?

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5 minutes ago, JohnThePessimist said:

Only if we don’t cut a deal.

Deal or not, we'll be outside of the single market.  We rejected to stay in the EEA - customs union issues could have been mitigated against.  We're looking at 29 (or so) Lorry parks dotted around the UK over time.  10 in the first 6-9 months.

Visas for "foreign" fishermen aren't on the shortage occupation list, so post Jan, they wont be renewed...

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/uk-politics/1721314/orkney-fishermen-turn-on-boris-johnson-over-bitterly-disappointing-immigration-rules/  

Edited by Dave Beans
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Just now, Dave Beans said:

Deal or not, we'll be outside of the single market.  We rejected to stay in the EEA.  Now we're looking at 29 (or so) Lorry parks dotted around the UK over time.

Visas for "foreign" fishermen aren't on the shortage occupation list, so post Jan, they wont be renewed...

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/uk-politics/1721314/orkney-fishermen-turn-on-boris-johnson-over-bitterly-disappointing-immigration-rules/  

Yes we’re outside the EEA. However they want access to our fish, which we don’t currently have the fleet to catch. So we offer access to the fish, subject to quotas, and they give us access to markets in return. The French get fish, the Germans get to sell us cars, and we continue to peddle complex financial instruments that nobody (us included) understands...

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1 minute ago, JohnThePessimist said:

Yes we’re outside the EEA. However they want access to our fish, which we don’t currently have the fleet to catch. So we offer access to the fish, subject to quotas, and they give us access to markets in return. The French get fish, the Germans get to sell us cars, and we continue to peddle complex financial instruments that nobody (us included) understands...

Screw the French greed. They can buy them of our fisherman from our ports and we can employ local fisherman. 

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5 minutes ago, JohnThePessimist said:

Yes we’re outside the EEA. However they want access to our fish, which we don’t currently have the fleet to catch. So we offer access to the fish, subject to quotas, and they give us access to markets in return. The French get fish, the Germans get to sell us cars, and we continue to peddle complex financial instruments that nobody (us included) understands...

There's access, and then there's membership.  The UK has become a third country - we are outside of the single market ecosystem - which gives us access, but with all the non-tarrif barriers built in....An FTA doesn't get rid of those...Which reduce or eliminate tariffs, plus a few other bits and bobs, but not non-tariff barriers.

Edited by Dave Beans
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1 minute ago, Dave Beans said:

There's access, and then there's membership.  The UK has become a third country - we are outside of the single market ecosystem - which gives us access, but with all the non-tarrif barriers built in....An FTA doesn't get rid of those...All it does, is reduce or eliminate tariffs, plus a few other bits and bobs.

And so, we exchange access to the fishing grounds in exchange for access to their markets. It becomes as simple, or as complex as both sides choose to make it.

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2 minutes ago, JohnThePessimist said:

And so, we exchange access to the fishing grounds in exchange for access to their markets. It becomes as simple, or as complex as both sides choose to make it.

Yemen, as a third country has access to their markets.

You have a base line - WTO...Full most favoured nation (MFN) tariffs

...then an FTA...(reduces/removes tariffs)

...then you have the single market (removes "internal" tariffs / non-tariff barriers)

Edited by Dave Beans
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2 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

Yemen, as a third country has access to their markets.

Perhaps I should have said ‘free & unfettered access’. My point remains, we have things they want (fish & car finance deals). That’s enough to bring the French & Germans to an agreement. Let’s make use of it. 
 

Goodnight all....

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4 minutes ago, JohnThePessimist said:

Perhaps I should have said ‘free & unfettered access’. My point remains, we have things they want (fish & car finance deals). That’s enough to bring the French & Germans to an agreement. Let’s make use of it. 
 

Goodnight all....

The only way we'd get that, is to remain in the single market, which has been rejected.  The EU wont give us "unfettered" access, as under the WTO, they'd have to give every other third country in the world the same access.

Edited by Dave Beans
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20 minutes ago, JohnThePessimist said:

Yes we’re outside the EEA. However they want access to our fish, which we don’t currently have the fleet to catch. So we offer access to the fish, subject to quotas, and they give us access to markets in return. The French get fish, the Germans get to sell us cars, and we continue to peddle complex financial instruments that nobody (us included) understands...

We can buy their vessels from them when they go bankrupt.

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My personal take is that the EU are planning to concede fishing anyway..    it's not worth much financially,  but they know it is a big deal politically for the UK.   I expect it is just a carrot they are trying to wave at us to get us to agree to the real sticking point on state aid rules or whatever else really concerns them,   knowing it gives the UK government a way to concede without humiliating them (yes we gave the EU everything else..  but look over this way..  we won the right to fish our own waters! Victory!).

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6 hours ago, JohnThePessimist said:

We don’t have the fleet, as yet. Mentioned already upthread. Everybody in Whitby is too busy being a Goth/Steampunk to work on a trawler.

Thats not a bad thing.

Leave the waters alone for 10 years, let stock recover whilst they work out a way to maintain the fisheries.

 

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2 hours ago, Libspero said:

My personal take is that the EU are planning to concede fishing anyway..    it's not worth much financially,  but they know it is a big deal politically for the UK.   I expect it is just a carrot they are trying to wave at us to get us to agree to the real sticking point on state aid rules or whatever else really concerns them,   knowing it gives the UK government a way to concede without humiliating them (yes we gave the EU everything else..  but look over this way..  we won the right to fish our own waters! Victory!).

Its not big for the UK. Sure, UKIP wave and make a fuss.

The number of UK fishermen  is tiny. Most are fishing for scampi or on protection duties.

The UK only eats one type of fish - cod. The rest is negligible/exported

The politics involved are purely French and Spanish.  The fall out will probably see the Northern Countries sideline France even more - the exploding French social scene and absence of any coherent poltical party has not gone unnoticed by the Northern bock.

 

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2 hours ago, Libspero said:

My personal take is that the EU are planning to concede fishing anyway..    it's not worth much financially,  but they know it is a big deal politically for the UK.   I expect it is just a carrot they are trying to wave at us to get us to agree to the real sticking point on state aid rules or whatever else really concerns them,   knowing it gives the UK government a way to concede without humiliating them (yes we gave the EU everything else..  but look over this way..  we won the right to fish our own waters! Victory!).

By giving them 50% of our fish that isn't conceding fishing. That is giving away 50% of our fish. We already lost 50% of the fish before we've even started. 

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