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Unpaid Overtime?


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I was speaking to my line manager a few weeks ago. He was saying he normally does 8 hours a week unpaid overtime... he was doing more at the moment because we've changed contract...

I'm not doing any unpaid overtime.... I cant help thinking you're a bit of a mug to do unpaid overtime....

Does anyone here do unpaid overtime?

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unpaid overtime ? bollox to that. I worked for a company once that tried to remove O/T for travel (some sites required 3-4 hours each way) and the result was everyone just said we'll leave for si

Older workers may well have contracts entitling them to specific overtime payments. Those entering the workforce more recently probably have weasel words like "Your normal hours of work are nn per wee

When I worked for RBS overtime was unpaid. Usually required because the cash didn’t balance. I’d already achieved a higher grade and didn’t want to be a branch manager due to reduced pay for that role

8 hours doesn't sound that much for a lot of office bods at a certain level. I get e-mails all hours from some. 

I've done OT where it suited me to get the experience and used it to my personal benefit later. I ended up owning the business I worked for and that wasn't done on a 40 hour week. People who do it without a plan though? Rather them than me.

 

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Older workers may well have contracts entitling them to specific overtime payments. Those entering the workforce more recently probably have weasel words like "Your normal hours of work are nn per week but you may be expected to work whatever further hours are necessary to achieve your objectives."

Scandalous really that people can legally be told to work unlimited hours. The EU helped a lot with the Working Time Directive but the law really is crap in this regard. 

What really annoys me is when people's "professionalism" is questioned when they wont work overtime for free. Just try asking a real professional such as plumber or solicitor to do extra hours for free they will laugh at you.

Edited by Funn3r
professionalism
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Just now, Funn3r said:

The EU helped a lot with the Working Time Directive but the law really is crap in this regard. 

Come off it. Nobody <in practice> pays a blind bit of attention to these tomes of regulation. Barely anybody gets prosecuted, a few get pays off I am sure by making waves and the employer pays them to keep schtum. Abuse of the WTD must be the most flouted regulation in Britain. Elsewhere in Europe like the Med, probably not even fit for bog roll.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

"Your normal hours of work are nn per week but you may be expected to work whatever further hours are necessary to achieve your objectives."

Yep both of my previous IT employers had this bullshit in the employment contract. The industry was infamous for long house unpaid 15 years ago when I started; thankfully it's a bit less common now.

Thankfully I am now paid for my overtime, and it is a rarity.

The 'unpaid overtime' idea is mostly an office job thing. If it's gonna help you make more money in the longer term, say by giving you something really good to put on your CV, then it's your decision to make and it might be worth it. Generally however it's due to bad management and you're being taken advantage of.

I've seen graduate's being indoctrinated (as I was one) in company's graduate schemes to accept unpaid overtime as some sort of moral responsibility that you have to 'do the right thing' for the company. Load of bullshit.

Not saying unpaid overtime is a bad thing; but if you do it you have to ask "am I happy with what I'm being paid for the hours I'm sacrificing".

More than ever nowadays if you are going to work hard/long hours you need to have a good career plan in mind so that you will be rewarded appropriately for your efforts; if not right away then within one or two job hops.

Edited by JoeDavola
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13 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

I was speaking to my line manager a few weeks ago. He was saying he normally does 8 hours a week unpaid overtime... he was doing more at the moment because we've changed contract...

I'm not doing any unpaid overtime.... I cant help thinking you're a bit of a mug to do unpaid overtime....

Does anyone here do unpaid overtime?

Pay is not always money. 

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Just now, SillyBilly said:

Come off it. Nobody <in practice> pays a blind bit of attention to these tomes of regulation. Barely anybody gets prosecuted, a few get pays off I am sure by making waves and the employer pays them to keep schtum. Abuse of the WTD must be the most flouted regulation in Britain. Elsewhere in Europe like the Med, probably not even fit for bog roll.

 

 

It's not about prosecuting people it's about winning your case at employment tribunal. I have been in disciplinaries relating to overtime and HR take the WTD very seriously purely because they know how important it will be if it gets to court. You can voluntarily sign away your WTD rights so it's not about the authoritarian meddling EU if that's where you're coming from. 

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2 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

It's not about prosecuting people it's about winning your case at employment tribunal. I have been in disciplinaries relating to overtime and HR take the WTD very seriously purely because they know how important it will be if it gets to court. You can voluntarily sign away your WTD rights so it's not about the authoritarian meddling EU if that's where you're coming from. 

You're a big company man? Majority of employers are SMEs, don't even have a HR department. Work the hours or f**k off.

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I have played this game and for me it has worked out well. I have passed my peers and am earning serious money. However, I also know that I have beaten the odds, thus far. Many others have tried the same game and have had no progression. Hard work allied with ability trumps just hard work, or just ability.

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15 minutes ago, JohnThePessimist said:

I have played this game and for me it has worked out well. I have passed my peers and am earning serious money. However, I also know that I have beaten the odds, thus far. Many others have tried the same game and have had no progression. Hard work allied with ability trumps just hard work, or just ability.

But as you say, hard work and ability also need to be combined with some sort of a career plan. "if I achieve X, and I can move to Y position".

I was being asked to help on and off on a new project by someone who is very senior in my organization and I'm doing my best to distance myself from it and concentrating on my 'main' day job because I know there's nothing it it for me. No promotions happening in my employer for sure, but more importantly the bits of work I'm being asked to help on are little annoying scraps of unrelated software engineering work where someone can't get a particular feature in X Y or Z new framework/product to work, so they give it to me to spend a few days tearing my hair out to figure out how that particular thing actually works.

And I generally do get it to work, but the result isn't anything amazing, it's generally something quite trivial made difficult via poor documentation/support for that product/framework. That needs done to a tight deadline. Very poor stress to reward ratio.

So these little bits of work here and there won't add up to any marketable skillset to move up any career ladder. It's just added stress ultimately for the benefit of someone else.

 

Edited by JoeDavola
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When I worked for RBS overtime was unpaid. Usually required because the cash didn’t balance. I’d already achieved a higher grade and didn’t want to be a branch manager due to reduced pay for that role n the restructuring being only a few grand more.

I kept a note of overtime and took a sick day for repayment of my time. Took voluntary redundancy in 1993 and am now drawing my pension. I view it as compensation. Fucking terrible job, for me anyway....some folk loved it.

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Pretty standard, not seen paid overtime in nearly 20 years. 

Not something I do as i always take time in lieu, but wouldn't be surprised if must people were doing more than their hours. Particularly now.  For the US guys it's very much expected so it's built in the culture here.  

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2 hours ago, Great Guy said:

I was speaking to my line manager a few weeks ago. He was saying he normally does 8 hours a week unpaid overtime... he was doing more at the moment because we've changed contract...

I'm not doing any unpaid overtime.... I cant help thinking you're a bit of a mug to do unpaid overtime....

Does anyone here do unpaid overtime?

You got to be a grade A mug to do it. If I ain't getting paid I ain't there. 

Reminds me of a time my boss told a workmate that he MUST come in early as part of a new rota.

He turned up later than usual and had a massive stretch and yawn in his seat. Stating loudly that he'd had a lovely lie in so that the boss could hear.

The rota didn't last the week.

Edited by 23rdian
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1 hour ago, TheNickos said:

unpaid overtime ? bollox to that.

I worked for a company once that tried to remove O/T for travel (some sites required 3-4 hours each way) and the result was everyone just said we'll leave for site at 09:00 and leave the site to allow an arrival to home of 17:30.

That is the correct response.

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24 minutes ago, Libspero said:

You owe nothing to your employer and they owe nothing to you.

If you are getting something out of the overtime,  that’s fine.  If not,  ask yourself why you’re really doing it.  None of the companies I’ve worked for have expected unpaid overtime.

No, both parties have a contract.

The org would go nuts if the person doing 8h extra a week took every Friday off instead.

Yet he s meant to be ok with working an extra day.

Ditto if he asked for another 2p% in money.

You owe it to yourself and other workers to do your hours.

If theres too much work then they need to pay OT or employ extra.

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My contract states that I get a call in rate if I work at weekends. x for up to four hours, y for over four hours. At one point I did a lot of overtime and negotiated for myself and a few others that we would be paid proper overtime rates that people on older contracts receive. Time and a half for the first four hours and double time after that. Double time for all hours on Sunday. Time and a half for evening overtime but that is exceptionally rare. Occasionally I have stayed up to an hour late and not charged if I think I should have got the job done in normal hours. Or do an extra hour and finish early on Friday.

Last year I did about £5k in overtime. This year nothing. We've had slightly less work come in but not much difference. There was one deadline that definitely would have led to me doing a couple of days overtime last year. The difference? Some people are working extra and not claiming for it. They're that bored working from home and with lockdown that they're doing an hour or two extra every day. Sometimes you see that they've done something late at night or on the weekend. Good job I have additional skills. I reckon one or two people are doing less work but average time worked is up.

There is also cost pressure as other parts of the business are down. It would be a struggle to get overtime signed off. Would happen if others weren't over working though.

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3 hours ago, Great Guy said:

I was speaking to my line manager a few weeks ago. He was saying he normally does 8 hours a week unpaid overtime... he was doing more at the moment because we've changed contract...

I'm not doing any unpaid overtime.... I cant help thinking you're a bit of a mug to do unpaid overtime....

Does anyone here do unpaid overtime?


So here's the thing, there's a BIG difference between doing unpaid overtime as a manager, and doing so as a general dogsbody with people watching you like a hawk to make sure you're not taking the piss.

Secondly if he's doing unpaid overtime then hie's mismanaging labour, managers are supposed to delegate and if they don't then they're a liability, because they're micro-managers.

Third, fuck doing overtime, any sort of overtime, if you're paid then the tax man takes most of it and it won't stop the company sacking you off the second they think they don't need you, in fact being too good is worse for your prospects than being mediocre.

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I am working with a client at the moment. The engineering I am working with has been in weekends (every weekend) and late evening for the last month to hit an arbitrary dead line. It is so rushed I am concerned about the design

 

We were chatting the other Saturday and he said he did not get paid for over time, had not sine 1998 was what he said. I just replied that is why I am freelance and bill for my time. Every fucking hour gets billed 

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