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Air pollution death


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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/30/landmark-inquest-to-rule-if-air-pollution-killed-london-pupil

This might end up being bigger than lockdown in restricting where you can travel, how you travel, how often you travel etc.

 

If this little girl died because of air pollution (then why haven't her siblings also died?) then they will have to really look hard at all traffic emissions.

 

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If you want to reduce congestion and associated pollution stop cramming more people into the country.

Saw this and thought, yup, the start of shaping the new narrative of cars (for the plebs) bad.  

back in the days of coal fires people didn't get asthma due to the freezing gale of air being pulled through the house.  I wouldn't go to coal fires but the point was these created a major pull t

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33 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/30/landmark-inquest-to-rule-if-air-pollution-killed-london-pupil

This might end up being bigger than lockdown in restricting where you can travel, how you travel, how often you travel etc.

 

If this little girl died because of air pollution (then why haven't her siblings also died?) then they will have to really look hard at all traffic emissions.

 

When we moved back to the UK we first lived in Enfield. 3 Days a week jnr went to a nursery very near to the A10 and soon developed a chronic cough. Since moving to gods own Town Billericay no issues whatsoever. 

I agree with Yaddas point that filling the country to the brim isn't helping either. 

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Whilst I abhor pollution / feckless polluters this path leads to a situation where the costs of providing a pollution free environment cannot be sustained by the economy required to do so.

Less people would help and then better protection / treatment for those affected. 

But the idea we can eliminate things that will affect some people disproportionately is madness.

 

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1 minute ago, One percent said:

Saw this and thought, yup, the start of shaping the new narrative of cars (for the plebs) bad.  

While certain that traffic pollution would have played a part I would love to do a proper study on the causes. Africans are notorious for shutting up their houses like a drum due to the cold and then having bad damp issues and all the associated mould. 

Other thoughts

Habitual weed smokers? 

Indoor BBQ goat sessions?

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3 minutes ago, Kurt Barlow said:

While certain that traffic pollution would have played a part I would love to do a proper study on the causes. Africans are notorious for shutting up their houses like a drum due to the cold and then having bad damp issues and all the associated mould. 

Other thoughts

Habitual weed smokers? 

Indoor BBQ goat sessions?

You and your family must have caused a shitload of pollution and CO2's these past few years. Maybe stop being a hypocrite or blind when it suits and look closer to home?

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9 minutes ago, eight said:

You and your family must have caused a shitload of pollution and CO2's these past few years. Maybe stop being a hypocrite or blind when it suits and look closer to home?

Really

In the last 12 months we have halved the energy consumption of our house and have further to go. Prior to this had no opportunity as we were renting

Putting aside a 18 month period I've used public transport to travel to work since 2006

I haven't stepped on a plane for the last 3 years. Mrs B has been to Iran once. 

We opted to buy a Hybrid to try and minimise our road travel based pollution. 

 

You should find something more productive to do  with your furlough / scrapheap time than make baseless accusations. 

 

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Pollution used to be much worse surely, in the UK anyway.  Plus people will have always died since industrial times then all the coal smog and finally cars being a big one.  I'm sure the stats in urban China (if it ever gets released) in years to come will show some extreme life shortening overall.

Do we know ban air travel more because of?  If so I'd say it is more to do with the economy or general concerns about environmental change rather than a few deaths being attributed directly to pollution, although may well be used as the excuse.

Would definitely be interested to know why the increase in things like asthma.... More children developing etc.  Maybe exposure to other chemicals in foods etc or at least them making the body more susceptible to airborne toxins and resulting detrimental effects.

Similar to other allergies etc (although side note, the peanut one I heard a convincing argument about trend in babies having no exposure to peanuts on medical advice so when they do get exposed can have bad result)

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49 minutes ago, Kurt Barlow said:

While certain that traffic pollution would have played a part I would love to do a proper study on the causes. Africans are notorious for shutting up their houses like a drum due to the cold and then having bad damp issues and all the associated mould. 

Other thoughts

Habitual weed smokers? 

Indoor BBQ goat sessions?

Yeah, lots of variables but they focus on cars bad.  9_9  they are coming for your wheels...

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If anyone, blame Gordon for the absolutely bonkers switch from encouraging LPG to Diesel at exactly the point where it might have made a difference.

And, no, it wasn't 'difficult to see the consequences at the time' or some such rot.  It was obvious at the time, and I for one spoke out against it.   But they did it anyway, as government is blind to consequences beyond the next election (or so).

If they wanted to clean up the cities they'd give a tax differential on purchase and road tax, and increase the differential on fuel*, for LPG (lowest) vs petrol (intermediate) vs Diesel (highest) tomorrow**.   As it is we've got jam tomorrow which may well never arrive (the ecar concept is 'complicated' and requires significant changes to UK infrastructure that is only being given lip-service at the moment).

[* diesel is stuffed for short-journeys/city driving, and rightly so, but older petrol cars should be able to add lpg conversion for not so much cash.  And they could subsidise that (5% VAT on conversion costs) if they really wanted to.  But they don't want to, so it won't happen.]

[** nine years to 2030.  They could make a real difference in the meantime.  Not that '2030' will happen in 2030.]

[I'd note as an aside that all the manufacturers do factory LPG for pretty much all their models.  They just don't sell them in the UK because LPG isn't encouraged here.]

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Just now, dgul said:

If anyone, blame Gordon for the absolutely bonkers switch from encouraging LPG to Diesel at exactly the point where it might have made a difference.

And, no, it wasn't 'difficult to see the consequences at the time' or some such rot.  It was obvious at the time, and I for one spoke out against it.   But they did it anyway, as government is blind to consequences beyond the next election (or so).

If they wanted to clean up the cities they'd give a tax differential on purchase and road tax, and increase the differential on fuel*, for LPG (lowest) vs petrol (intermediate) vs Diesel (highest) tomorrow**.   As it is we've got jam tomorrow which may well never arrive (the ecar concept is 'complicated' and requires significant changes to UK infrastructure that is only being given lip-service at the moment).

[* diesel is stuffed for short-journeys/city driving, and rightly so, but older petrol cars should be able to add lpg conversion for not so much cash.  And they could subsidise that (5% VAT on conversion costs) if they really wanted to.  But they don't want to, so it won't happen.]

[** nine years to 2030.  They could make a real difference in the meantime.  Not that '2030' will happen in 2030.]

[I'd note as an aside that all the manufacturers do factory LPG for pretty much all their models.  They just don't sell them in the UK because LPG isn't encouraged here.]

You are Spy and ICMFP. xD

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1 hour ago, Kurt Barlow said:

While certain that traffic pollution would have played a part I would love to do a proper study on the causes. Africans are notorious for shutting up their houses like a drum due to the cold and then having bad damp issues and all the associated mould. 

Other thoughts

Habitual weed smokers? 

Indoor BBQ goat sessions?

Im aware of this case for a fair bit.

At that age  the girl will be spending most of her time indoors. Windows shut moist likely, as your suggest.

Fungal spores damp etc etc. Plus the fumes from central heating on 247.

 

IIRC she was one of the BBCs 100 influential women.

Surely if she was truely campaign against traffic pollution then getting rid on natives from London would be the first step.

The poor girl died in 2013, 9yo, born in 2004.

Surely a victim Brown and his idiotic diesel 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41985715

As Chancellor Philip Hammond considers tougher budget measures on diesel cars, documents obtained by the BBC reveal how the "dash for diesel" was encouraged by presentational considerations.

The shift to promoting diesel vehicles under the last Labour government can be seen as a textbook example of the law of unintended consequences.

In 2001, the then Chancellor Gordon Brown introduced a new system of car tax aimed at protecting the environment. In actual reality it fostered a popular move towards highly polluting diesel cars - a trend which according to some experts has been associated with thousands of premature deaths a year.

New light is shed on how this happened by records received by the BBC, after a two-year freedom of information battle with the Treasury. Some of these papers show that civil servants objected to a stronger policy to deter diesel usage on presentational grounds, because they did not want the government to be seen as "penalising" diesel drivers.

 

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-5607297/Despite-Governments-best-efforts-diesels-UK-roads-before.html

 

4B14155F00000578-5607297-image-a-14_1523

 

The sates dont point to a big rise in asthma deaths

 

https://statistics.blf.org.uk/asthma

 

Asthma UK does some hand wringing about low paid in mouldy houses, unable to moved due to high housing costs . Best solution to that is kick non brits out.

 

https://www.asthma.org.uk/dd78d558/globalassets/get-involved/external-affairs-campaigns/publications/health-inequality/auk-health-inequalities-final.pdf

 

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2 hours ago, sarahbell said:

Asthma in London continues to increase, in a class of 30 at least 3 children will have a diagnosis of asthma

http://ellaroberta.org/about-the-foundation/

 

image.thumb.png.d8d118a305188b87e36a33ae33204d7c.png
https://psnc.org.uk/services-commissioning/essential-facts-stats-and-quotes-relating-to-asthma/

Is athma linked to pollution  ? 

I thought studies from the newly United Germany in the 1990s found that the hideously polluted East Germany was found to have lower asthma rates than environmentally conscious West Germany.

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5 minutes ago, Virgil Caine said:

Is athma linked to pollution  ? 

I thought studies from the newly United Germany in the 1990s found that the hideously polluted East Germany was found to have lower asthma rates than environmentally conscious West Germany.

Again, reporting and policy based on assertion. They never, ever produce verifiable scientific data to support what they say.  
anecdotal evidence here, i lived in a small town on the north east coast and developed asthma at 21.  

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1 minute ago, One percent said:

Again, reporting and policy based on assertion. They never, ever produce verifiable scientific data to support what they say.  
anecdotal evidence here, i lived in a small town on the north east coast and developed asthma at 21.  

Quite prepared to believe the link between certain lung diseases and pollution but asthma rates don’t seem to necessarily tie into them. Our death rates are higher than countries that are just as polluted as the U.K. so presumably something else is a factor.

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5 minutes ago, jm51 said:

I can accept that a car using a gallon of diesel causes more pollution than a car using a gallon of petrol but by how much?

I drove a Ford Escort diesel when on the taxis. It did 50mpg round the houses, no motorways. Round the houses, a petrol Ford Escort would give half of that mpg or less.

 

And if we are talking about the pollution levels of various vehicles, why leave planes out of the debate?  They must be far more polluting than anything else.  Oh, yes, that’s right, coz someone with power is making lots of moola. 

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The U.K. has higher levels of all lung diseases than much of Europe. I personally think our damp climate plays a not inconsiderable role and particularly the relatively high humidity of the air in winter. Ideal humidity seems to be in the 40-60% range but for somewhere like London it averages over70% most of the year and over 80% in the winter. 

https://www.healthline.com/health/humidity-and-asthma

Basically the risk comes with the territory and if you don’t like it then don’t live here.

 

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