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2015 Thalys terrorist attack


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Spencer Stone, the American soldier who neutralized an Islamic terrorist who the prosecution said was bent on mass murder, has bad memories of France. The first time in 2015 he had to fight for his life against an Islamic terrorist. Eye witnesses described the Muslim as being armed to the teeth and fighting with the fury of a demon with superhuman strength. The second time was a few days ago for the start of his trial. Taken ill on the flight to Paris, Stone then spent 5 days in hospital before being repatriated to the United States.

Yesterday he attended court by video conference from California. The defense has claimed that the terrorist didn't want to kill anyone and just wanted to scare them. He was armed with a Kalash, a luger and a knife and 270 rounds of ammunition.

"I don't see myself as a hero because I was simply fighting for my own life, it was Mark (Moogalian, an American law lecturer) who was the hero, because without him we couldn't have done a thing. After 30 to 40 minutes I was awoken by a train guard running past me (the guard would lock himself in the rear of the train), that got my attention and I thought it was odd. I took off my headphones and I heard the sound of a window breaking and cries. I turned and saw Ayoub El Khazzani  pick up an AK47 that was on the ground and arm the weapon. I realized that he hadn't started to fire and I said to myself 'we need to mvoe or else it will be too late'. Alek [Skarlatos] tapped me on the shoulder and said "go". I got up and ran after Ayoub. He pointed the AK47 at me and I heard him fire a number of times. From the sound I heard he was trying to kill me with the gun. When I reached him I was surprised he hadn't shot me (according to the forensic police the first bullet was a dud)"

A violent struggle ensued. El Khazzani hit Stone in the face with the AK47 injuring his eye then drew his Luger and aimed it at his head. "He seemed to pull the trigger but during the struggle the gun had lost its magazine, it was the second time he tried to kill me". El Khazzani then grabbed his cutter almost sectioning Stone's thumb then slashing violently at his throat "that was the third time he tried to kill me". Stone was finally able to disarm El Khazzani with the aid of his friends and fellow passengers.

As a trained medic, and despite his injuries, he went back to help Mark Moogalian who had been shot trying to disarm the tettorist. "Mark was still conscious. I took off my shirt to put pressure on the wound. I realized an artery had been hit. I had to put my fingers in the wound to stop him bleeding out. I felt the pulse of the artery in his neck, I pressed down and the bleeding stopped". During a long half hour to Amiens and help Stone and Isabelle Moogalian kept Mark alive.

Edited by Dave Bloke
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35 minutes ago, kibuc said:

Being a lawer of such defendand is a shitty job but it's necessary. It takes a certain kind of person to be able (and willing) to do it, but we need them regardless.

Their job is not to care how insulting their line of defence might be to the victims, which for some might be difficult to accept.

No, that is not true.  A lawyer cannot present a falsehood to the court knowingly.  Somewhere post war that was forgotten, so that now lawyers can make up any old bollocks and never get in trouble for it.  They should say something like "My client has instructed me to say that" which is code for 'this isn't fucking true but I have to repeat my instructions'.

A proper legal professional body should take the lawyers in this case and throw the book at them.  Their client will not have left any doubt in their mind that he WAS trying to kill the Americans.

Now if the defence had been it was a mental issue, or a setup, and there was some evidence, fair enough.  But this modern trend of lawyers accepting lies as instructions needs to stop in criminal cases.

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42 minutes ago, kibuc said:

Being a lawer of such defendand is a shitty job but it's necessary. It takes a certain kind of person to be able (and willing) to do it, but we need them regardless.

The missus was always crap as a defense lawyer when she had to do it as the duty solicitor. She'd go to court having spoken to the defendant and say something like "my client is utter scum, the worst low life you can imagine, a more depraved individual you could ever meet"... long pause as the court waits for some kind of comeback, judge wakes from his slumber and leans forward cocking an ear... "in fact there are no mitigating circumstances and he should be locked up for the rest of his natural life".

To which the judge would say "erm... it's just a speeding offence, madam".

Edited by Dave Bloke
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2 minutes ago, wherebee said:

No, that is not true.  A lawyer cannot present a falsehood to the court knowingly.  Somewhere post war that was forgotten, so that now lawyers can make up any old bollocks and never get in trouble for it.  They should say something like "My client has instructed me to say that" which is code for 'this isn't fucking true but I have to repeat my instructions'.

A proper legal professional body should take the lawyers in this case and throw the book at them.  Their client will not have left any doubt in their mind that he WAS trying to kill the Americans.

Now if the defence had been it was a mental issue, or a setup, and there was some evidence, fair enough.  But this modern trend of lawyers accepting lies as instructions needs to stop in criminal cases.

A lawyer speaks on behalf of his client. It's necessary to remove the disadvantage the defendand might have due to lack of legal training, while facing prosecutors and judges with years of legal studies and experience. If the defendand itself is allowed to lie in his defence, I believe this priviledge should be extended to his lawyer. In other words, the rights of the defendand to defend himself by any words he seems fit should be merged with legal qualifications of his lawyer.

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7 minutes ago, wherebee said:

No, that is not true.  A lawyer cannot present a falsehood to the court knowingly.  Somewhere post war that was forgotten, so that now lawyers can make up any old bollocks and never get in trouble for it.  They should say something like "My client has instructed me to say that" which is code for 'this isn't fucking true but I have to repeat my instructions'.

A proper legal professional body should take the lawyers in this case and throw the book at them.  Their client will not have left any doubt in their mind that he WAS trying to kill the Americans.

Now if the defence had been it was a mental issue, or a setup, and there was some evidence, fair enough.  But this modern trend of lawyers accepting lies as instructions needs to stop in criminal cases.

Are you a criminal lawyer?

We all are, m'aam.

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9 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

Are you a criminal lawyer?

We all are, m'aam.

I've been called a lot of rude things on here, mostly by XYY, but no one has EVER accused me of being a lawyer before.  I want a fucking apology, right now.

 

Anyway...

https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/can-my-lawyer-still-defend-me-if-they-know-im-guilty/

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2 hours ago, Dave Bloke said:

Spencer Stone, the American soldier who neutralized an Islamic terrorist who the prosecution said was bent on mass murder, has bad memories of France. The first time in 2015 he had to fight for his life against an Islamic terrorist. Eye witnesses described the Muslim as being armed to the teeth and fighting with the fury of a demon with superhuman strength. The second time was a few days ago for the start of his trial. Taken ill on the flight to Paris, Stone then spent 5 days in hospital before being repatriated to the United States.

Yesterday he attended court by video conference from California. The defense has claimed that the terrorist didn't want to kill anyone and just wanted to scare them. He was armed with a Kalash, a luger and a knife and 270 rounds of ammunition.

"I don't see myself as a hero because I was simply fighting for my own life, it was Mark (Moogalian, an American law lecturer) who was the hero, because without him we couldn't have done a thing. After 30 to 40 minutes I was awoken by a train guard running past me (the guard would lock himself in the rear of the train), that got my attention and I thought it was odd. I took off my headphones and I heard the sound of a window breaking and cries. I turned and saw Ayoub El Khazzani  pick up an AK47 that was on the ground and arm the weapon. I realized that he hadn't started to fire and I said to myself 'we need to mvoe or else it will be too late'. Alek [Skarlatos] tapped me on the shoulder and said "go". I got up and ran after Ayoub. He pointed the AK47 at me and I heard him fire a number of times. From the sound I heard he was trying to kill me with the gun. When I reached him I was surprised he hadn't shot me (according to the forensic police the first bullet was a dud)"

A violent struggle ensued. El Khazzani hit Stone in the face with the AK47 injuring his eye then drew his Luger and aimed it at his head. "He seemed to pull the trigger but during the struggle the gun had lost its magazine, it was the second time he tried to kill me". El Khazzani then grabbed his cutter almost sectioning Stone's thumb then slashing violently at his throat "that was the third time he tried to kill me". Stone was finally able to disarm El Khazzani with the aid of his friends and fellow passengers.

As a trained medic, and despite his injuries, he went back to help Mark Moogalian who had been shot trying to disarm the tettorist. "Mark was still conscious. I took off my shirt to put pressure on the wound. I realized an artery had been hit. I had to put my fingers in the wound to stop him bleeding out. I felt the pulse of the artery in his neck, I pressed down and the bleeding stopped". During a long half hour to Amiens and help Stone and Isabelle Moogalian kept Mark alive.

I don't wish to denigrate the bravery of the French public in particular, I don't think modern Brits would be any better, but I will say that it was incredibly lucky there was an American soldier on that train (and the misfire that saved him). 

I travel quite a lot on those TGVs - if the bloke had been more efficient and had managed to get started properly and had enough ammo(probably not), he could have wiped the entire train out.

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2 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

I don't wish to denigrate the bravery of the French public in particular, I don't think modern Brits would be any better, but I will say that it was incredibly lucky there was an American soldier on that train (and the misfire that saved him). 

I travel quite a lot on those TGVs - if the bloke had been more efficient and had managed to get started properly and had enough ammo(probably not), he could have wiped the entire train out.

Or used the AK47 as a tool for inter-faith peace, which seems to be his defence.

 

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22 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

I don't wish to denigrate the bravery of the French public in particular, I don't think modern Brits would be any better, but I will say that it was incredibly lucky there was an American soldier on that train (and the misfire that saved him).

Apparently the Bataclan killers had a similar issue with an AK47 but had more time to fix it. I guess a soldier would eject the dud round and continue firing.

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1 minute ago, Dave Bloke said:

Apparently the Bataclan killers had a similar issue with an AK47 but had more time to fix it. I guess a soldier would eject the dud round and continue firing.

 

Well as so often with these Islamist types, it's very fortunate he was thick as shit.

He could have cleared all the close-quarter people out including the Americans, with the handgun first and got everyone running/panicking/screaming before getting the AK47 going. If there'd been more than one, like at the Bataclan, very few would have escaped alive. 

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13 minutes ago, Dave Bloke said:

In the Arabic "hollywood" version he would throw the faulty gun at the American soldier who would be distracted by it then pull the handgun and shoot him.

iirc I think one of the Americans actually took the guy's AK47 and used it to bludgeon him

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All empires crawl up their own arse and die eventually. The Romans went to shit, the British got carried away with protestantism and ended up giving the natives the tools they needed to end our empire. This kind of shit, the fucked up culture and failed state election are the death belches of the American empire. Its over.

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