PC upgrade

[RWJ]

Toying with the idea of a new desktop.  Mainly because if this 9 year old HP fails I have no way of working and would involve an emergency purchase, which is never good.  Aside from remoting in to work the main use is multi-tabling online poker, coupled with Holdem Manager software which is essentially an SQL database to record hands and provide a heads up display & stats reporting.  I'd like to upgrade to 3 monitors instead of the current 2.

Current PC - Intel Pentium 2 core 2.6ghz, 4GB ram, 1tb HDD, upgraded graphics card to handle dual monitors.

It runs ok but very slow to open Holdem Manager and the boot time is in minutes. 

I've been quoted £680 from Palicomp for Intel i5-9600k 6 core overclocked to 5ghz, 16gb DDR4, 1tb NVMe SSD, nVidia Geforce GT710 graphics card for 3 monitors.  Doesn't include the monitors.

https://www.palicomp.co.uk/intel-mercury-review-cof9

What do we think of this spec- significant upgrade from current?  Any better (cheaper) ways to get a performance PC without building it myself.

[Green Devil]

Id be looking at a Ryzen, with an AM4 socket on a 500 series motherboard for upgradeability to up to latest all singing spec at a later date if required, with 16Gb of ram. Intel is old junk now and its cheap for a reason.

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, The XYY Man said:

Which will make you Billy Three Monitors...!

Surely someone on here can beat that...

 

XYY

1 porn, 1 poker, 1 work.  Living the dream.

Anyway that's rich coming from Mr 'One of my PCs....' 

[onlyme]

4 hours ago, Green Devil said:

Id be looking at a Ryzen, with an AM4 socket on a 500 series motherboard for upgradeability to up to latest all singing spec at a later date if required, with 16Gb of ram. Intel is old junk now and its cheap for a reason.

New, yes would go Ryzen s/h, there is some nice metal floating about second user / ex corporate though.

Something like the below or slightly lower spec and spend a bit on decent graphics card. Used Mrogan and CRS before and been good.

£750 - actually contains the GTX1050  --- Palit GTX1050 Ti StormX 4GB DDR5

 

https://www.morgancomputers.co.uk/product_detail/21675/HP-WorkStation-Z240-Tower-PC-Quad-Core-i7-6700-3-40GHz-16GB-RAM-1TB-HDD-512GB-SSD-GTX-4GB-Graphics-DVD-Windows-10-Professional-5-10-Day-Lead-Time/

HP WorkStation Z240 Tower PC Quad Core i7-6700 3.40GHz 16GB RAM 1TB HDD + 512GB SSD GTX 4GB Graphics DVD Windows 10 Professional - 5-10 Day Lead Time

• Intel Core i7-6700 Quad Core 3.40GHz processor 
• 16GB DDR4 RAM
• 1TB SATA III Hard Drive + 512GB Solid State Drive (SSD)
• 4GB DDR5 Discrete Gaming Spec Graphics Card
• 400W PSU
• DVD-RW Optical Drive
• Windows 10 Professional 64bit

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by onlyme

[Green Devil]

4 hours ago, RWJ said:

1 porn, 1 poker, 1 work.  Living the dream.

Anyway that's rich coming from Mr 'One of my PCs....' 

42inch, 24inch, 14 inch CRT ?

Edited December 7, 2020 by Green Devil

[Libspero]

On 07/12/2020 at 09:32, RWJ said:

What do we think of this spec- significant upgrade from current?  Any better (cheaper) ways to get a performance PC without building it myself

It will be fine for what you want..  looks like they’ve specially added that card to support the extra monitors for you.

It’s a £60 quid graphics card,  so poker is about all you’ll manage with it..  but if you’re not gaming or anything like that it looks like a pretty future proof setup for you. And you could always just upgrade the graphics card in future if you needed/wanted to.

I’d say the price looks “fair”.  I wouldn’t say it’s the deal of the century, but it comes pre built and has everything you need..  so, why not?

[Libspero]

On 07/12/2020 at 09:32, RWJ said:

nVidia Geforce GT710 graphics card for 3 monitors.  Doesn't include the monitors.

A little uncertain on the graphics card for three monitors.  I found this online comment:

Quote

 

3x monitors in "extended" mode is the same as "Nvidia 2D Surround" and is not supported on the GT-710. For this feature you are required to have a GT-740 (or higher) GPU.

 

So while technically it will support 3 monitors,  I’m not sure if you will be able to extend your desktop past 2.  You might want to check that first (or someone here might know more).    Perhaps ask about the 740 or higher version instead? The article I read it on was 4 years old..  newer versions might be better.  This article from only a year ago seems to rate it pretty highly:

https://3dinsider.com/multi-monitor-setup/?amp
 

I think the graphics card is the only thing that would make me nervous. I’d do some research on it first.

Edit to add:  some more good information here:

https://forums.evga.com/m/tm.aspx?m=2803134&p=1

Edited December 11, 2020 by Libspero

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, Libspero said:

A little uncertain on the graphics card for three monitors.  I found this online comment:

 

So while technically it will support 3 monitors,  I’m not sure if you will be able to extend your desktop past 2.  You might want to check that first (or someone here might know more).    Perhaps ask about the 740 or higher version instead? The article I read it on was 4 years old..  newer versions might be better.  This article from only a year ago seems to rate it pretty highly:

https://3dinsider.com/multi-monitor-setup/?amp
 

I think the graphics card is the only thing that would make me nervous. I’d do some research on it first.

Edit to add:  some more good information here:

https://forums.evga.com/m/tm.aspx?m=2803134&p=1

Thanks @Libspero I'll take a look through those links. I've done some research on the card and although basic, I'm fairly sure it will accommodate 3. If not it would be straight back to Palicomp. 

Cards appear to ramp up in price significantly if you want 4 monitors.

[Libspero]

13 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Thanks @Libspero I'll take a look through those links. I've done some research on the card and although basic, I'm fairly sure it will accommodate 3. If not it would be straight back to Palicomp. 

Cards appear to ramp up in price significantly if you want 4 monitors.

I think the abridged version is there may be resolution limits..  So if you have any problems you may be able to just drop the screen res across the 3

[Green Devil]

On 11/12/2020 at 05:24, Libspero said:

A little uncertain on the graphics card for three monitors.  I found this online comment:

 

So while technically it will support 3 monitors,  I’m not sure if you will be able to extend your desktop past 2.  You might want to check that first (or someone here might know more).    Perhaps ask about the 740 or higher version instead? The article I read it on was 4 years old..  newer versions might be better.  This article from only a year ago seems to rate it pretty highly:

https://3dinsider.com/multi-monitor-setup/?amp
 

I think the graphics card is the only thing that would make me nervous. I’d do some research on it first.

Edit to add:  some more good information here:

https://forums.evga.com/m/tm.aspx?m=2803134&p=1

Graphics is power hungry. You wont be able to use 3 monitors on a cheapo card for anything thats graphic intensive. Email web browsing OK. Youd need to buy one of the double width GPUs that have 4 display ports, but thats gonna cost 500 quid or so. 

I recently tried a 1030 for test purposes (which is 60 quid card) i was having issues with an RX580 (black screen etc), and its useless at graphics/games/playing video etc on one monitor (im running a high spec Ryzen system). My high spec card is a Vega 64 (supports 4 monitors over display port), this was a 500 plus card in its day and still pretty high spec.

[Erewhon888]

On 07/12/2020 at 09:32, RWJ said:

Toying with the idea of a new desktop.  

If you are not in a hurry, note that PC Pro magazine's next issue promises "find out exactly what your budget will buy in our roundup of PCs, ranging from sub-£500 bargains to gaming beasts". Comes out 14 January and would give a table for comparison.

[Green Devil]

According to LTT theres not much stock of anything about at the moment towards the higher end.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW6_nX0g3to

[nirvana]

Another vote for Ryzen here....more specifically I'd get Ryzen with integrated Vega graphics, they're seriously good

 ie https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/cpu-amd-desktop/amd-ryzen-g-3000-series-socket-am4-processors

I'd check out some of the latest motherboards as I think you might be able to run 3 monitors....

I used to run 2 monitors but I'm down to 1 monitor as trading and wanking at the same time is tricky at the best of times....

Do you really need 3 monitors? 

I'm anti 'power hog' and have been for some years.....I'm looking into trying out a Rockchip RK3399 board, they're dirt cheap and I'm in line for a RISC-V board.....although it'll probably be some years before they're cheap enough for tight wads like me 

edit this is a seriously good cpu for £46

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/amd-athlon-3000g-am4-zen-2-dual-core-4-thread-35ghz-4mb-cache-radeon-vega-3-graphics-35w-cpu

edit I know you said 'without building it myself' BUT I think you should go for it, it's easy and fun and you learn to fix things for yourself and you can bin windows and run arch linux ftw 

Edited December 15, 2020 by 5min OCD speculator

[eek]

I've always found Palicomp overpriced - so this is based on a very quick look at AWD-IT

https://www.awd-it.co.uk/elite-amd-ryzen-5-3600-4.2ghz-six-core-ddr4-business-and-home-pc-system.html

AMD Ryzen 6 core 3600

16GB 3600 DDR4 RAM (£40 upgrade)

ADATA SX8200 1TB NVME (£100 upgrade)

Grand total is £539.97

yes it doesn't include windows but you can install that via a usb dongle and a dodgy ebay purchase for £5. 

All the components are faster or identical to Palicomp's and its the NVME speed that you want as that will solve your DB load and boot issues. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by eek

[eek]

And yes you could build it yourself but I seriously doubt you would get anything close to the above for anything like the same money - decent components are impossible to find and I've spent the last month earning £ks by grabbing video cards from Amazon and selling them for ££££.

[eek]

Also check the connections your video cards want. If you are buying newer monitors and want three of them you may need a better card with more appropriate connections.

Edited December 15, 2020 by eek

[nirvana]

@RWJ vega supports 3 monitors at the same time, proof here from 22mins, so don't bother with an extra graphics card just find the right MB and bung loads of memory in it  

edit: quote from 'the fat yank'......'yeah 3 displays very easy'.....famous last words 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by 5min OCD speculator

[Green Devil]

2 hours ago, eek said:

I've always found Palicomp overpriced - so this is based on a very quick look at AWD-IT

https://www.awd-it.co.uk/elite-amd-ryzen-5-3600-4.2ghz-six-core-ddr4-business-and-home-pc-system.html

AMD Ryzen 6 core 3600

16GB 3600 DDR4 RAM (£40 upgrade)

ADATA SX8200 1TB NVME (£100 upgrade)

Grand total is £539.97

yes it doesn't include windows but you can install that via a usb dongle and a dodgy ebay purchase for £5. 

All the components are faster or identical to Palicomp's and its the NVME speed that you want as that will solve your DB load and boot issues. 

My latest system uses the Ryzen 3 Series. However these run surprisingly hot under full load on the stock cooler, which is shite. So much that i upgraded my stock cooler and brought the temps down by 15C.

[eek]

1 hour ago, Green Devil said:

My latest system uses the Ryzen 3 Series. However these run surprisingly hot under full load on the stock cooler, which is shite. So much that i upgraded my stock cooler and brought the temps down by 15C.

My system is fully watercooled - but then again I've just spent more than the OP's entire budget on new watercooling parts as I fancied a different case.

But yep replace the stock CPU with a decent Arctic cooler - this https://www.awd-it.co.uk/arctic-freezer-34-esports-duo-intel-amd-tower-cpu-air-cooler-with-bionix-p-series-fans-white.html or even  https://www.awd-it.co.uk/arctic-freezer-12-co-compact-semi-passive-tower-intel-amd-cpu-cooler.html

will make it both quieter and the CPU cooler.

Edited December 15, 2020 by eek

[nirvana]

got me on a 'geek hunt'  this is in stock and supports triple monitor

 https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asrock-b450m-pro4-amd-b450-am4-ddr4-2x-m2-2-way-crossfire-realtek-gbe-usb-31-gen2-aplusc-microatx

sadly the cpus I referred to are out of stock....

be quick amazon have 1!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-Ryzen-3400G-Processor-Graphics/dp/B07SXNDKNM/

[RWJ]

@Green Devil@onlyme@Libspero@Erewhon888@5min OCD speculator@eek

Great info chaps, exactly what I was looking for - better alternatives at lower prices.  @eek I like the awd alternative.

Sounds like Ryzen 5 3600 6xcore, 1tb NVMe and 16gb RAM will give the performance I want, then I'll ponder the graphics options per the advice above.  Nice MB find @5min OCD speculator

This is basic but I need wi-fi.  Options appear to be either internal (£30) or via an external USB dongle type thingy (£6).  Much of a muchness or either to be avoided?  My current PC has an antenna sticking out the rear of the tower which I fitted myself and works flawlessly.  I'm not sure if 'internal' means the same or is completely enclosed in the unit and potentially ropey. 

[nirvana]

you can't beat a wire for me  but defo usb dongle thing for cheap methinks....actually I've used one of those USB ones that sticks out about 5mm when I've been configuring something like moodeaudio.......then I discovered picoreplayer running LMS.......

I prefer 'lots' of little devices nowadays rather than one 'beast'......computers should be deadly quiet so you can hear the music better......and those voices in the dark  

edit: the chipset is what you want to look at, ie do you need wireless b/g/n

you probably want something that does at least 500mb/s but I'm out of touch here

I just plugged 2 pieces of shite in and I got 

Ralink Technology, Corp. MT7601U Wireless Adapter

 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTL8188EUS 802.11n Wireless Network Adapter
 

I need to go to bed soon, I've been far too geeky today 

Edited December 15, 2020 by 5min OCD speculator

[nirvana]

one last attempt to show you don't need a separate graphics card 

 

[nirvana]

28 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Sounds like Ryzen 5 3600 6xcore

and to point out that this cpu NEEDS a graphics card, it won't work without one....ooh complications 

Edited December 15, 2020 by 5min OCD speculator

[Green Devil]

19 minutes ago, 5min OCD speculator said:

you can't beat a wire for me  but defo usb dongle thing for cheap methinks....actually I've used one of those USB ones that sticks out about 5mm when I've been configuring something like moodeaudio.......then I discovered picoreplayer running LMS.......

I prefer 'lots' of little devices nowadays rather than one 'beast'......computers should be deadly quiet so you can hear the music better......and those voices in the dark  

edit: the chipset is what you want to look at, ie do you need wireless b/g/n

you probably want something that does at least 500mb/s but I'm out of touch here

I just plugged 2 pieces of shite in and I got 

Ralink Technology, Corp. MT7601U Wireless Adapter

 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTL8188EUS 802.11n Wireless Network Adapter
 

I need to go to bed soon, I've been far too geeky today 

Agreed. Can't beat cable. I like to hardwire the pc to the router. That way if there's issues it can be quickly fault found. The reason pcs don't have standard WiFi as the aren't designed that way. Designed for gigabit ethernet. Once you start downloading games on high speed fibre, you be glad your internal network is faster than your providers connection. WiFi is for phone pads and laptops. 😁

[nirvana]

I keep getting whacky ideas....if I hadn't cable tied my motherboard to my desk leg I'd be really tempted to make my own case from some aluminium AND I'd use some tasty french oak for the front panel

 https://runawaybrainz.blogspot.com/2011/11/diy-how-to-bend-aluminium-easy-way-with.html