PC upgrade

[RWJ]

Toying with the idea of a new desktop.  Mainly because if this 9 year old HP fails I have no way of working and would involve an emergency purchase, which is never good.  Aside from remoting in to work the main use is multi-tabling online poker, coupled with Holdem Manager software which is essentially an SQL database to record hands and provide a heads up display & stats reporting.  I'd like to upgrade to 3 monitors instead of the current 2.

Current PC - Intel Pentium 2 core 2.6ghz, 4GB ram, 1tb HDD, upgraded graphics card to handle dual monitors.

It runs ok but very slow to open Holdem Manager and the boot time is in minutes. 

I've been quoted £680 from Palicomp for Intel i5-9600k 6 core overclocked to 5ghz, 16gb DDR4, 1tb NVMe SSD, nVidia Geforce GT710 graphics card for 3 monitors.  Doesn't include the monitors.

https://www.palicomp.co.uk/intel-mercury-review-cof9

What do we think of this spec- significant upgrade from current?  Any better (cheaper) ways to get a performance PC without building it myself.

[Libspero]

On 07/12/2020 at 09:32, RWJ said:

nVidia Geforce GT710 graphics card for 3 monitors.  Doesn't include the monitors.

A little uncertain on the graphics card for three monitors.  I found this online comment:

Quote

 

3x monitors in "extended" mode is the same as "Nvidia 2D Surround" and is not supported on the GT-710. For this feature you are required to have a GT-740 (or higher) GPU.

 

So while technically it will support 3 monitors,  I’m not sure if you will be able to extend your desktop past 2.  You might want to check that first (or someone here might know more).    Perhaps ask about the 740 or higher version instead? The article I read it on was 4 years old..  newer versions might be better.  This article from only a year ago seems to rate it pretty highly:

https://3dinsider.com/multi-monitor-setup/?amp
 

I think the graphics card is the only thing that would make me nervous. I’d do some research on it first.

Edit to add:  some more good information here:

https://forums.evga.com/m/tm.aspx?m=2803134&p=1

[RWJ]

@Green Devil@onlyme@Libspero@Erewhon888@5min OCD speculator@eek

Great info chaps, exactly what I was looking for - better alternatives at lower prices.  @eek I like the awd alternative.

Sounds like Ryzen 5 3600 6xcore, 1tb NVMe and 16gb RAM will give the performance I want, then I'll ponder the graphics options per the advice above.  Nice MB find @5min OCD speculator

This is basic but I need wi-fi.  Options appear to be either internal (£30) or via an external USB dongle type thingy (£6).  Much of a muchness or either to be avoided?  My current PC has an antenna sticking out the rear of the tower which I fitted myself and works flawlessly.  I'm not sure if 'internal' means the same or is completely enclosed in the unit and potentially ropey. 

[eek]

Also check the connections your video cards want. If you are buying newer monitors and want three of them you may need a better card with more appropriate connections.

[nirvana]

you can't beat a wire for me  but defo usb dongle thing for cheap methinks....actually I've used one of those USB ones that sticks out about 5mm when I've been configuring something like moodeaudio.......then I discovered picoreplayer running LMS.......

I prefer 'lots' of little devices nowadays rather than one 'beast'......computers should be deadly quiet so you can hear the music better......and those voices in the dark  

edit: the chipset is what you want to look at, ie do you need wireless b/g/n

you probably want something that does at least 500mb/s but I'm out of touch here

I just plugged 2 pieces of shite in and I got 

Ralink Technology, Corp. MT7601U Wireless Adapter

 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTL8188EUS 802.11n Wireless Network Adapter
 

I need to go to bed soon, I've been far too geeky today 

[Erewhon888]

One option that is often forgotten is to use two graphics cards, one for high performance and one to get older connections such as DVI. I learnt this by not checking and discovering my new card only had four Displayport outputs.

Here is an explanation of how to configure different cards for different applications.

https://www.digitalcitizen.life/set-which-video-cards-are-used-apps-games-windows-10/

[nirvana]

one last attempt to show you don't need a separate graphics card 

 

[Green Devil]

According to LTT theres not much stock of anything about at the moment towards the higher end.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW6_nX0g3to

[Erewhon888]

On 07/12/2020 at 09:32, RWJ said:

Toying with the idea of a new desktop.  

If you are not in a hurry, note that PC Pro magazine's next issue promises "find out exactly what your budget will buy in our roundup of PCs, ranging from sub-£500 bargains to gaming beasts". Comes out 14 January and would give a table for comparison.

[nirvana]

28 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Sounds like Ryzen 5 3600 6xcore

and to point out that this cpu NEEDS a graphics card, it won't work without one....ooh complications 

[Green Devil]

19 minutes ago, 5min OCD speculator said:

you can't beat a wire for me  but defo usb dongle thing for cheap methinks....actually I've used one of those USB ones that sticks out about 5mm when I've been configuring something like moodeaudio.......then I discovered picoreplayer running LMS.......

I prefer 'lots' of little devices nowadays rather than one 'beast'......computers should be deadly quiet so you can hear the music better......and those voices in the dark  

edit: the chipset is what you want to look at, ie do you need wireless b/g/n

you probably want something that does at least 500mb/s but I'm out of touch here

I just plugged 2 pieces of shite in and I got 

Ralink Technology, Corp. MT7601U Wireless Adapter

 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTL8188EUS 802.11n Wireless Network Adapter
 

I need to go to bed soon, I've been far too geeky today 

Agreed. Can't beat cable. I like to hardwire the pc to the router. That way if there's issues it can be quickly fault found. The reason pcs don't have standard WiFi as the aren't designed that way. Designed for gigabit ethernet. Once you start downloading games on high speed fibre, you be glad your internal network is faster than your providers connection. WiFi is for phone pads and laptops. 😁

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, Libspero said:

A little uncertain on the graphics card for three monitors.  I found this online comment:

 

So while technically it will support 3 monitors,  I’m not sure if you will be able to extend your desktop past 2.  You might want to check that first (or someone here might know more).    Perhaps ask about the 740 or higher version instead? The article I read it on was 4 years old..  newer versions might be better.  This article from only a year ago seems to rate it pretty highly:

https://3dinsider.com/multi-monitor-setup/?amp
 

I think the graphics card is the only thing that would make me nervous. I’d do some research on it first.

Edit to add:  some more good information here:

https://forums.evga.com/m/tm.aspx?m=2803134&p=1

Thanks @Libspero I'll take a look through those links. I've done some research on the card and although basic, I'm fairly sure it will accommodate 3. If not it would be straight back to Palicomp. 

Cards appear to ramp up in price significantly if you want 4 monitors.

[Libspero]

13 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Thanks @Libspero I'll take a look through those links. I've done some research on the card and although basic, I'm fairly sure it will accommodate 3. If not it would be straight back to Palicomp. 

Cards appear to ramp up in price significantly if you want 4 monitors.

I think the abridged version is there may be resolution limits..  So if you have any problems you may be able to just drop the screen res across the 3

[RWJ]

On 16/12/2020 at 21:44, 5min OCD speculator said:

ok whatever zen they call it.......zen+ APU.......the Ryzen 3400G is a great chip......I don't think he needs more, and actually believe he needs a lot less...we're talking playing poker here not research into AI....

A 6 core 3600 will sit doing sweet fa whilst he turns his cards over 

And he'll save money on leccy and don't give me this 'future proof' bollocks, tech changes too quick, get a few years out of it and upgrade....

After much deliberation I went with the 3400G/Vega 11 @5min OCD speculator.  Happy to go with 2 monitors and I can add a good discrete GPU in future if I still want 3. 

The decision was based on a shitload of reading on motherboards, processors and graphics - there's a lot of love out there for vega, even for low-end gaming and as I'm not gaming it should be sufficient.  Reviews would suggest it's leagues ahead of the GT710.  Also I bought a laptop over Christmas with the 3500U/Vega 8.  It runs my poker set-up no problem and I'm really impressed with its speed and graphics.  

Full spec :- Asus B450MA, 3400G/Vega 11, 2x8gb DDR4 3000mhz, 512gb Adata 8200 Pro NVMe.  Windows.

£484 from AWD which I think is a great price.  I priced up the components with a view to self building but can't get anywhere near that.

Now the tortuous wait......

 

[nirvana]

9 hours ago, RWJ said:

which has 3 dirty great fans on the front and sounds like a Harrier Jump Jet

been there with a fancy Lian Li aluminium case many years ago.......so you may laugh at my 'ghetto tramp table leg pc' but I don't hear it......and that was the plan!  

[nirvana]

I keep getting whacky ideas....if I hadn't cable tied my motherboard to my desk leg I'd be really tempted to make my own case from some aluminium AND I'd use some tasty french oak for the front panel

 https://runawaybrainz.blogspot.com/2011/11/diy-how-to-bend-aluminium-easy-way-with.html

[RWJ]

4 hours ago, 5min OCD speculator said:

I've posted it before....worried I'll get accused of being an 'IT bore' .

ooh I found it......I've been on a low power mission for a number of years

if I can power my house using a max feed of 1kVA I might go off grid with a self-build next....kettle, microwave and halogen cooker thingy are the problem but if i just use one at a time I might get away with it...interesting discussion for another topic maybe

 

As it's DPD delivering my PC I expect it to look like this when it arrives....

[nirvana]

@RWJ vega supports 3 monitors at the same time, proof here from 22mins, so don't bother with an extra graphics card just find the right MB and bung loads of memory in it  

edit: quote from 'the fat yank'......'yeah 3 displays very easy'.....famous last words 

 

[nirvana]

10 hours ago, eek said:

Which is why the GT710 is included in the AWD machine I recommended

 

sure but you all seem to getting a hard on over graphics cards 

whereas I'm saying he doesn't need one....

blimey he's going from a Pentium 2 and a mechanical hard drive; even a switch to an Athlon 3000G, an SSD and linux will be like going from a morris minor to a errr, Golf GTI? 

he's playing cards, he doesn't need a separate graphics card....KISS 

But yeah good point on connectors.....hopefully the day will arrive when everything uses the same connector.......thunderbolt/USB4? I think they're the same

BUT an open source hardware standard would be better....corporates no likey...

EDit @RWJyour boot time will go from minutes to like less than 10 seconds.......maybe 30 seconds if you still insist on using Windows poo poo 

[nirvana]

On 06/01/2021 at 09:38, RWJ said:

Also I bought a laptop over Christmas with the 3500U/Vega 8

that's a weird coincidence cos I'm now looking for a used laptop with that cpu cos it plays fortnite...amazing what these APUs can achieve nowadays, what did you buy?

 

[nirvana]

10 hours ago, eek said:

(and you can't buy those for self builds as there is zero stock)

the chinkies have 4 ....https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4001223895315.html

[Green Devil]

2 hours ago, eek said:

I've always found Palicomp overpriced - so this is based on a very quick look at AWD-IT

https://www.awd-it.co.uk/elite-amd-ryzen-5-3600-4.2ghz-six-core-ddr4-business-and-home-pc-system.html

AMD Ryzen 6 core 3600

16GB 3600 DDR4 RAM (£40 upgrade)

ADATA SX8200 1TB NVME (£100 upgrade)

Grand total is £539.97

yes it doesn't include windows but you can install that via a usb dongle and a dodgy ebay purchase for £5. 

All the components are faster or identical to Palicomp's and its the NVME speed that you want as that will solve your DB load and boot issues. 

My latest system uses the Ryzen 3 Series. However these run surprisingly hot under full load on the stock cooler, which is shite. So much that i upgraded my stock cooler and brought the temps down by 15C.

[RWJ]

Not too impressed with AWD IT after receiving my PC.  They downgraded the motherboard from the Asus B450 to the A320 and the drive from Adata SX8200 to the SX6000.  No phone call to see if that was acceptable before sending and no refund of the £30 it cost to specifically upgrade those parts.  

In a way it's a blessing as I fucked up by ordering the CIT Flash gaming case, which has 3 dirty great fans on the front and sounds like a Harrier Jump Jet.  No way I can put up with that all day.  It also looks like a mobile disco although you can turn off the RGBs. 

I had a play with the display set-up and confirmed Vega 11 runs 2 monitors via the HDMI and VGA ports on the board.  Recognised them both right away, no problems.  No 3rd monitor to try the DVI port. 

Back to square one - I need to pay more attention to the case it seems 

[Green Devil]

On 11/12/2020 at 05:24, Libspero said:

A little uncertain on the graphics card for three monitors.  I found this online comment:

 

So while technically it will support 3 monitors,  I’m not sure if you will be able to extend your desktop past 2.  You might want to check that first (or someone here might know more).    Perhaps ask about the 740 or higher version instead? The article I read it on was 4 years old..  newer versions might be better.  This article from only a year ago seems to rate it pretty highly:

https://3dinsider.com/multi-monitor-setup/?amp
 

I think the graphics card is the only thing that would make me nervous. I’d do some research on it first.

Edit to add:  some more good information here:

https://forums.evga.com/m/tm.aspx?m=2803134&p=1

Graphics is power hungry. You wont be able to use 3 monitors on a cheapo card for anything thats graphic intensive. Email web browsing OK. Youd need to buy one of the double width GPUs that have 4 display ports, but thats gonna cost 500 quid or so. 

I recently tried a 1030 for test purposes (which is 60 quid card) i was having issues with an RX580 (black screen etc), and its useless at graphics/games/playing video etc on one monitor (im running a high spec Ryzen system). My high spec card is a Vega 64 (supports 4 monitors over display port), this was a 500 plus card in its day and still pretty high spec.

[Erewhon888]

30 minutes ago, 5min OCD speculator said:

But yeah good point on connectors.....hopefully the day will arrive when everything uses the same connector.......thunderbolt/USB4? I think they're the same

 

 

[Libspero]

On 07/12/2020 at 09:32, RWJ said:

What do we think of this spec- significant upgrade from current?  Any better (cheaper) ways to get a performance PC without building it myself

It will be fine for what you want..  looks like they’ve specially added that card to support the extra monitors for you.

It’s a £60 quid graphics card,  so poker is about all you’ll manage with it..  but if you’re not gaming or anything like that it looks like a pretty future proof setup for you. And you could always just upgrade the graphics card in future if you needed/wanted to.

I’d say the price looks “fair”.  I wouldn’t say it’s the deal of the century, but it comes pre built and has everything you need..  so, why not?