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1 week to go, how many died, let's have your charts and stats


nirvana
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And how does this compare to 2019?

I know someone who died but he'd been taking warfarin for over 20 years so it fucked his kidneys up..... 

Edited by 5min OCD speculator
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@Frank Hovisfantastic love it especially this bit 

On this basis, the number of deaths in England and Wales in an admittedly exceptionally bad year would have been only in the region of 335-340 deaths!

The plebs are all running scared over nowt, quelle surprise xD

Edited by 5min OCD speculator
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16 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I found this from the BMJ in 2018; talking about flu and being highly critical of how the government / ONS wrongly attribute excess deaths to flu by a factor of, wait for this.

 

It's worth the wait.

 

Really.

 

 

 

 

The definition of flu deaths is very tight - admission to an ICU owing to having flu - and I would suggest that if the same criterion had applied strictly to Covid deaths, being those occurring after admission to an ICU primarily because of Covid - then we would be looking at an actual figure of three to four hundred deaths.

 

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k2795/rr-6

 

I find it strange that the government seeks to wildly exaggerate flu deaths, which I hadn't realised, and now Covid deaths.  

My best guess explanation is that such attribution wipes away a lot of inconvenient questions about treatment by dumping all winter deaths of the old and frail at the door of flu / Covid.

 

I accept now that three to four hundred deaths will fall at the very lowest in the range of estimates but as soon as you narrow the definition to definitely and directly caused by Covid, or flu, then that is the pool in which you are fishing.

Though the media has now accustomed the populace to thinking in terms of 70,000 and up.

 

Big pharma and their very lucrative vaccines?  
 

nice find though there Frank. 

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11 minutes ago, 5min OCD speculator said:

@Frank Hovisfantastic love it especially this bit 

On this basis, the number of deaths in England and Wales in an admittedly exceptionally bad year would have been only in the region of 335-340 deaths!

The plebs are all running scared over nowt, quelle surprise xD

 

I genuinely think if you collated the Covid figures in the same way with the deifnition which the BMJ and PHE apply for 'flu:

Covid symptoms that are so bad that they require intensive care and are the direct and primary cause of death

 

Then that is what you would get.  People killed by Covid, in the sense that most of understand that phrase - you catch Covid and it is the Covid that is the primary and direct cause of your death - then you would be down to around 400. 

 

There were 1,752 road deaths in 2019.  Over four times the likely deaths primariy down to Covid.

Yet I don't even recall reading that figure anywhere because it is so low.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-annual-report-2019

 

And taking 400 as the true figure then additional government borrowing for this which will likely hit £600bn means that each Covid death has cost the country £1.5bn.

 

tenor.gif

 

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37 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I accept now that three to four hundred deaths will fall at the very lowest in the range of estimates but as soon as you narrow the definition to definitely and directly caused by Covid, or flu, then that is the pool in which you are fishing.

Curiously, that number is close to one I've heard for those "who have died with (not of) Covid without underlying health conditions"

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35 minutes ago, dgul said:

My uncle died of a heart attack after multiple cancelled appointments from the hospital to sort out his heart condition.

this is a covid death. caused by covid.

indirectly of course.

Edited by leonardratso
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1 hour ago, apples said:

Curiously, that number is close to one I've heard for those "who have died with (not of) Covid without underlying health conditions"

The NHS very thoughtfully produce the data for us and present it in a very easy to understand manner...

388 people under the age of 60 died without any known pre-existing condition.

 

image.thumb.png.abaf5c85512a4be2fc42cf17967bdbfe.png

Edited by Bornagain
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Again, these track deaths.

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

No attempt to attribute cause of death.

Ages.

Countries.

Look at the red dotted line.

 

Some countries ie Denmark. No difference, barely a register. They had swine flu much worse 4 years ago.

Italy are stacking the corpses in the street. Seriously fucked. Brutal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, spygirl said:

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

No attempt to attribute cause of death.

Ages.

Countries.

Look at the red dotted line.

If you look at 15-44 age group, the only countries to break out above the norm are the uk and spain. Even at 45-64 it's barely a blip for most countries. Interesting also, sweden despite being amongst the baddies overall, their deaths are even more concentrated in the older age ranges. Confirms rumours that their bad results mostly due to people being left to die in care homes.

Edited by steppensheep
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6 minutes ago, steppensheep said:

If you look at 15-44 age group, the only countries to break out above the norm are the uk and spain. Even at 45-64 it's barely a blip for most countries. Interesting also, sweden despite being amongst the baddies overall, their deaths are even more concentrated in the older age ranges. Confirms rumours that their bad results mostly due to people being left to die in care homes.

Dumping oaps in care homes is definitely  factor in the UK.

Doesn't explain Spain n Italy, where dumping relatives is rare.

I reckon having a few years low flu deaths combined with a active family life did for the oaps.

 

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41 minutes ago, maynardgravy said:

Whole different level of corruption  yet again. Easier to fudge figures?

Italy for sure. 

My last contract was working on a project to pay out money to people owed it for financial mistakes made years ago. 

The Italian ones were beyond a joke apparently. 

They pay companies to "find" people. Everything in Italy is down to very localised districts. It's an absolute nightmare apparently. 

Some of the companies questioned and offered the work just refused point blank. Just not worth the effort. 

 

So I wouldn't trust Italian stats on covid deaths. Intentional or just inefficiency. Either way. 

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6 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

I found this from the BMJ in 2018; talking about flu and being highly critical of how the government / ONS wrongly attribute excess deaths to flu by a factor of, wait for this.

 

It's worth the wait.

 

Really.

 

 

 

 

The definition of flu deaths is very tight - admission to an ICU owing to having flu - and I would suggest that if the same criterion had applied strictly to Covid deaths, being those occurring after admission to an ICU primarily because of Covid - then we would be looking at an actual figure of three to four hundred deaths.

 

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k2795/rr-6

 

I find it strange that the government seeks to wildly exaggerate flu deaths, which I hadn't realised, and now Covid deaths.  

My best guess explanation is that such attribution wipes away a lot of inconvenient questions about treatment by dumping all winter deaths of the old and frail at the door of flu / Covid.

 

I accept now that three to four hundred deaths will fall at the very lowest in the range of estimates but as soon as you narrow the definition to definitely and directly caused by Covid, or flu, then that is the pool in which you are fishing.

Though the media has now accustomed the populace to thinking in terms of 70,000 and up.

 

Even their wildly inflated figures of 70000+ are pathetic, back when I was watching Chinese people falling down in the streets I was imagining half of us would be goners.

Such bollocks, the worst bit of it all is how easily taken in the great bulk of our people have been. 

Anyway, it's Christmas!

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swiss_democracy_for_all
7 hours ago, Bornagain said:

The NHS very thoughtfully produce the data for us and present it in a very easy to understand manner...

388 people under the age of 60 died without any known pre-existing condition.

 

image.thumb.png.abaf5c85512a4be2fc42cf17967bdbfe.png

Even taking oldies into account it's less than 2000 with no pre-existing conditions!

And for this, the economy was destroyed.

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Long time lurking
9 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

My best guess explanation is that such attribution wipes away a lot of inconvenient questions about treatment by dumping all winter deaths of the old and frail at the door of flu / Covid.

The flu season and even better a bad one  has always been the season of the, NHS being overwhelmed, in a  give it more money sort of way 

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OurDayWillCome
9 hours ago, dgul said:

My uncle died of a heart attack after multiple cancelled appointments from the hospital to sort out his heart condition.

Sorry to hear that. Lots of people have been let down during this idiotic overreaction to the latest cold virus:

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2020/11/24/over-30000-non-coivd-19-extra-deaths-at-home-in-england-and-wales-since-march/

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Caravan Monster
11 hours ago, ccc said:

So I wouldn't trust Italian stats on covid deaths. Intentional or just inefficiency. Either way. 

Another reason to question national statistics on covid deaths is the suggestion that there was considerable supra-national pressure placed on national governments to lockdown. Muddying the statistics on covid deaths (and cases) seems to have been a persistent theme around the world.

No idea how much truth there was to it, but the story of Belarus being offered a large bribe from the IMF / World Bank to harshly lockdown certainly rings true:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/corruption/belarusian-president-claims-imf-world-bank-offered-him-a-bribe-to-impose-covid-restrictions/

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7 hours ago, OurDayWillCome said:

Sorry to hear that. Lots of people have been let down during this idiotic overreaction to the latest cold virus:

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2020/11/24/over-30000-non-coivd-19-extra-deaths-at-home-in-england-and-wales-since-march/

On one hand it's terrible and on the other people often say they want to die at home.

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If I become too frail to potter about I won't mind dying in a hospital or care home. As long as they don't keep me alive too long. More convenient for the relatives. I've already told my family that I want direct to crem, no funeral.

If I die at home, I'm going to be well ripe by the time my corpse is found.

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