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Third Generation Wealth tale


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On 28/09/2020 at 13:43, Bedrag Justesen said:

The three generations referred to are generally lower class that elevate to true middle class then fall back again.

Upper class are generally completely different.

Trying to avoid cliche but the street smart, self-made, small and medium business, or entrepreneur, is typically frugal, and watches every penny.

Their offspring, may be the first to attend public school, followed by elite university, and generic born with a silver spoon mindset.

Often dismissive of the granular nous of their patriarch and matriarch.

Entitled, high spending, luxury lifestyle, fast cars, luxury holidays, McMansion, golf club, Rotary Club, and Masonic Lodge. 

Tensions as first generation resents second generation taking too much out of the family business to support their lifestyle.

First generation shuffles off this mortal coil. 

Second generation double down reaching giddy new heights, foreign homes, yachts, and upgraded spouse after upgraded spouse.

Third generation handed everything on a plate. Gradually takes the reigns. Makes bad decisions.

Second generation couldn't care less. 

Third generation no clue how to survive, let alone thrive. No street smarts, zero business acumen.

Times are hard, business fails, it's back to working class penury.

Upper class are raised to protect the family silver from cradle to grave. Rarely spending their own coin and maximising all opportunites to avoid paying tax through centuries of generous loopholes.

The Trumps are America 's elite landed gentry.

If we live long enough we'll see President Barron Trump by 2050.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Hopeful said:

And the aristocracy stay wealthy because they trust their childrem, the poor stay poor because they distrust their children

The aristocracy use machanisms to transfer wealth to avoid IHT while the poor cling to their wealth to the grave and get clobbered by IHT every generation.

yes and no - you do get a lot of wastrels who run through the family fortune; it's not a new story - look at all the 19th century tales about rakes losing the stately home through cards.

The difference is that the tax structure is set up so that unless a child is very very shit, the family wealth carries on relatively OK.

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10 minutes ago, wherebee said:

yes and no - you do get a lot of wastrels who run through the family fortune; it's not a new story - look at all the 19th century tales about rakes losing the stately home through cards.

The difference is that the tax structure is set up so that unless a child is very very shit, the family wealth carries on relatively OK.

 

I agree

But it's very much a them and us society

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Sort of agree but housing is the key for me.

The first generation of working class home owners were in the 30s. The 70s were when equality was at its peak .

The right to buy generation is the one to watch.  After 30- 40 years I suspect many right to buy properties have been sold and the proceeds spent - on cars, kids, grand kids, cheaper properties , health costs etc etc

For the masses I reckon very little of this windfall still exists.  The future is not looking good for the youth unless their family are loaded.

 

 

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Surely it depends on the way the ones who make the money set things up?  I reckon many have the luck or ability to make the money, but not the ability to see that at least some of their descendants will be crap and these need to be prevented from fucking up.

Have there been useless lazy Rothschilds since Waterloo who given the chance would lose everything they inherit? Probably the majority of them, but the way they have done things, it can’t all be lost.

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47 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

Surely it depends on the way the ones who make the money set things up?  I reckon many have the luck or ability to make the money, but not the ability to see that at least some of their descendants will be crap and these need to be prevented from fucking up.

Have there been useless lazy Rothschilds since Waterloo who given the chance would lose everything they inherit? Probably the majority of them, but the way they have done things, it can’t all be lost.

Most people are useless with money. Nearly half of all pro footballers go bankrupt when they stop playing.  Btw they don't all earn loads but their bodies all age! Not sure Rothschilds are a good comparision but it is Christmas.

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The elites have had their own version of cloning for 100s of years.

Send the boys to the same school as their father and grandfathers. They come out as similar as can be to their father and grandfathers.

On some leftie forums, posters assume that toffs are weak. Most male toffs are tough as nails, their childhood gave them no choice in that. That's changing now that schools like Eton have had to tone down the bad stuff.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

Surely it depends on the way the ones who make the money set things up?  I reckon many have the luck or ability to make the money, but not the ability to see that at least some of their descendants will be crap and these need to be prevented from fucking up.

Have there been useless lazy Rothschilds since Waterloo who given the chance would lose everything they inherit? Probably the majority of them, but the way they have done things, it can’t all be lost.

The rich create Trusts not only to keep their wealth from the taxman but also to prevent their children and grand children from blowing it.

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8 minutes ago, jm51 said:

The elites have had their own version of cloning for 100s of years.

Send the boys to the same school as their father and grandfathers. They come out as similar as can be to their father and grandfathers.

On some leftie forums, posters assume that toffs are weak. Most male toffs are tough as nails, their childhood gave them no choice in that. That's changing now that schools like Eton have had to tone down the bad stuff.

 

 

 

Correct the private schools rugby and football teams that played my school were tougher than when the local detention sent there teams.we heard no idea if it’s true that they went to town vs the detention centre and were takeing it easy with our lot

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4 hours ago, wherebee said:

yes and no - you do get a lot of wastrels who run through the family fortune; it's not a new story - look at all the 19th century tales about rakes losing the stately home through cards.

The difference is that the tax structure is set up so that unless a child is very very shit, the family wealth carries on relatively OK.

Maybe an extreme example I know but totally on point.

Getty oil fortune... Multiple branches of the family but businesses and trusts are run.  Often even if you never work for the family firm you'll be sorted for life and coming generations I think would be too.

Definitely happens on a smaller scale although easier for things I guess over generations to go, not sure.

Re Getty, one of the family there all quite outspoken lgbtzqr etc fair enough. Only came across randomly a while back about "rich kids of Instagram".

Occasionally looked to see what one of there up to (hopefully not creepy just curious and very briefly and rare).

Anyway think in the past was all about private jetting around the world, doing high end fashion, posing for insta and giving to noble causes like I'd assume biden and definitely the trans issues.

Looked yesterday randomly, I think the previous stuff was so 2018/2019. That kind of shit very not 2020 nowadays (albeit probably it's all behind closed doors high hedges now).

What I found interesting was before it seemed she always had plenty of followers lapping up to her (she/ them married YT star (he now she I think)). Fair enough if happy.

Just that like I say always fawning over.  Found it quite telling the one picture I saw and the comments below... Posing Infront of the 'white House' as she put it.  Not all positive comments.  Think the tide has turned anyway, not saying for the better - just that it's not so cool for exorbitant wealth orgy to be displayed nowadays.  

Can't find the exact comment but think branching out to yt and Twitter bit different to the insta, or just different age.  The comment that I saw was something along the lines you've got Biden in but we're now all poorer for it your not safe either (very much paraphrasing)

 

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2 hours ago, chicker said:

Sort of agree but housing is the key for me.

The first generation of working class home owners were in the 30s. The 70s were when equality was at its peak .

The right to buy generation is the one to watch.  After 30- 40 years I suspect many right to buy properties have been sold and the proceeds spent - on cars, kids, grand kids, cheaper properties , health costs etc etc

For the masses I reckon very little of this windfall still exists.  The future is not looking good for the youth unless their family are loaded.

 

 

Owner occupation rates tell the story. They are estimated to drop to below 60% in 2025. Given that property is the main form of inherited wealth for most people that suggests there is simply going to be less wealth passing down the generations.

It should be added that OO levels  are still higher than in the 1970s. While home ownership levels were rising throughout the 20th century for most families the idea of  inherited wealth did not really arise until the last quarter of that century.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/articles/homeownershipdownandrentingupforfirsttimeinacentury/2015-06-19

Edited by Virgil Caine
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27 minutes ago, jm51 said:

The elites have had their own version of cloning for 100s of years.

Send the boys to the same school as their father and grandfathers. They come out as similar as can be to their father and grandfathers.

On some leftie forums, posters assume that toffs are weak. Most male toffs are tough as nails, their childhood gave them no choice in that. That's changing now that schools like Eton have had to tone down the bad stuff.

 

 

 

Really good points. I think definitely that's true but guess like you say toned down in recent years. Still from experience knowing one or two people that went, there were some bad actors as in teachers there for the wrong reason.  

Only person I have spent bit of time with from Eton very nice dude bit wacky said that there are all sorts and the billionaire Russians etc all get treated the same once in.  Obviously don't know what went on behind closed doors but doesn't sound like a happy place in general for most (though this one individual seemed more positive about think he's more old school eccentric). 

And think there probably is big emphasis on being taught to run the world.  Still good people come through it I think but definitely outsiders to some degree to normal society.

In my own city I've heard plenty of horrible reports from people attending or nasty anecdotes. Funnily enough know one guys little brother grew up with... My friend softest most gentle guy, wee bro just year or two younger sounded hard as nails, good geezer.  Anyway parents had done ok over the years and thought he was heading in wrong direction so sent him to one of these schools.  Don't think it changed anything thankfully. 

Saw him again maybe 4 years ago over a weekend.  Nothing changed, good dude still sounds rough as fuck but good guy.

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I heard a radio interview years ago with a British guy who met up with an Indian school chum of his. The Indian guy was one of the protesters during Partition and had been jailed for sedition.

When asked about being in an Indian jail, the guy said: 'You and I went to Eton. There isn't a jail in the world that we can't handle.'

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5 hours ago, Virgil Caine said:

Owner occupation rates tell the story. They are estimated to drop to below 60% in 2025. Given that property is the main form of inherited wealth for most people that suggests there is simply going to be less wealth passing down the generations.

It should be added that OO levels  are still higher than in the 1970s. While home ownership levels were rising throughout the 20th century for most families the idea of  inherited wealth did not really arise until the last quarter of that century.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/articles/homeownershipdownandrentingupforfirsttimeinacentury/2015-06-19

There was less pressure to buy in the 70s due to low rents and security of tenure.  Also pre right to buy. Maybe that was a great time to be a Brit - large disposable income  and things relatively cheap. Industrial disputes and Glam rock side by side.  I miss being  the arse of Europe, we will hopefully be there again.  Not sure the snowflakes will like it but fuck em

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Getting a mortgage could be hard. Just about impossible for blue collar workers as they got paid weekly in cash.

A common saying I remember from the late 60s early 70s was that the early years were financially difficult as the mortgage cost more than renting. Somewhere around the 5 year mark, the mortgage would cost about the same as renting. From then on, owning got easier.

Another thing I was told was that for buy to let, it was 30% deposit and a maximum loan term of 7 years. idk how true that was.

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20 hours ago, The Grey Man said:

1st gains the foothold.

2nd establishes it.

3rd blows it.

Fable or truth?

Merry Christmas by the way.

I've got a Baldrick style cunning plan. The 2nd gen shouldn't have any children and just pass it straight onto the 4th gen, so a 3rd gen cannot blow it.

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Read a book which dealt with this topic, the millionaire next door I think it was called. Analysed the research on the wealthy and found most were 1st gen who created their own wealth and lived modest frugal lives in middle class areas. Vaguely recall that most wealth was consumed by the 2nd/3rd gen.

The book was about US millionaires though, where your background matters less than your hunger for making money. Obviously in this country we have the class system, lot harder to get loans and good contracts when you don't have a plumy accent and don't own the right school ties. Look at our CEO class, to a man they are all fat old accountants from the home counties. Fuck they even all look identical.

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30 minutes ago, gibbon said:

Read a book which dealt with this topic, the millionaire next door I think it was called. Analysed the research on the wealthy and found most were 1st gen who created their own wealth and lived modest frugal lives in middle class areas. Vaguely recall that most wealth was consumed by the 2nd/3rd gen.

The book was about US millionaires though, where your background matters less than your hunger for making money. Obviously in this country we have the class system, lot harder to get loans and good contracts when you don't have a plumy accent and don't own the right school ties. Look at our CEO class, to a man they are all fat old accountants from the home counties. Fuck they even all look identical.

Well people like coats owns bet 365 bamfords owns jcb and tens of thousands of acers of staffordshire were middle class but in family’s that made money they saw gaps in the market in things they were brought up in and around ie engineering a gambling.cauldwell was the first in his family will have to see how his kids do.jcb family sidelines the useless family members btw.the other rich person around here simply married into some huge mega rich packing family .

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