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South African variant


sarahbell
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sarahbell

They have lockdown and alcohol ban.

Someone I know left SA for here today.

They have to come via a third country I think.

I don't understand at all why borders are open.

 

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sarahbell

SA professor says it's a concern whether it's going to not respond to the vaccine.

 

Who said SA was a hotspot for vaccine trials?

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swiss_democracy_for_all
9 hours ago, sarahbell said:

They have lockdown and alcohol ban.

Someone I know left SA for here today.

They have to come via a third country I think.

I don't understand at all why borders are open.

 

They have to have an excuse to keep locking everyone down and making vaccinations using barely-tested vaccines semi-compulsory.

So the new variant from SA will be allowed to spread, and others that will follow it, then the existing vaccines will be "adjusted" and new legislation allowing the testing for these adjustments to be even shorter will be passed. Then travel will be permitted only to people with vaccination certificates against all main variants.

This is what springs to my mind....

"Yet across the gulf of space  between Davos and the plebs, intellects vast and  cool and unsympathetic regarded this earth with envious eyes, and slowly and surely drew their plans against us."

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The Masked Tulip

I notice that there have been a few articles today about the South African strain. Claims that it is more widespread in the UK. Dire warnings of the vaccine not treating it.

Didn't Kay Burley recently come back from there?

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sarahbell
6 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

I notice that there have been a few articles today about the South African strain. Claims that it is more widespread in the UK. Dire warnings of the vaccine not treating it.

Didn't Kay Burley recently come back from there?

The Kent one is different to the South African variant.

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The Masked Tulip
14 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

The Kent one is different to the South African variant.

 

Yes, I am aware of that.

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A tremendous # on the lung

Vallance today suggested that the vaccine would almost certainly be helpful against the SA strain, but potentially not as effective. 

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11 minutes ago, A tremendous # on the lung said:

Vallance today suggested that the vaccine would almost certainly be helpful against the SA strain, but potentially not as effective. 

He has no choice but to say that.

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3 hours ago, The Masked Tulip said:

I notice that there have been a few articles today about the South African strain. Claims that it is more widespread in the UK. Dire warnings of the vaccine not treating it.

I think we just don't know.

But if there is going to be a vaccine resistant variant, SA is a good place for it to come from (given all the covid vaccine trials there, including the Bill Gates sponsored one*).

As it stands there's no reason to worry about a vaccine resistant virus, because so few people have had the vaccine yet.  The classic or new-covid will run through everyone in the country and the almost certainly less infectious SA-covid won't have a chance.

Well, unless of course, they get everyone to isolate so that the mild strains can't run riot, vaccinate all the vulnerable ones so that there are loads of them, and then suddenly let everyone out again -- that's a recipe for the SA-covid to run rampant though the vaccinated community, killing all of them. 

Even worse would be to keep covid at bay while we vaccinated everyone, and then letting the SA variant loose -- same end effect though.

Note that the SA variant isn't actually necessary -- covid will mutate to survive.  It isn't a DNA virus, which are genetically quite stable, but an RNA virus which mutate rapidly (albeit not as rapidly as some).  It will mutate no matter what, and if the population of 'people to infect' have all been vaccinated, it'll mutate to get around it.

Oh, also we can only use the Oxford vaccine approach once (no matter how much the politico-medics say that we'll vaccinate every year, just like flu) -- so once it mutates to get around the vaccine it is game-over for the vaccinate approach..

Best thing to do would be to vaccinate the vulnerable and then let the virus infect as many non-vulnerable as possible.  That way the most likely mutations would be to get around prior immunity, rather than the artificial vaccine immunity (as that would be a minority in the population).

No point in telling TPTB this.  I'd imagine they already know.  So long as no-one else knows then they can just be surprised when their plans fail.

[*it works by turning your body off, and then on again]

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The Masked Tulip
6 minutes ago, dgul said:

I think we just don't know.

But if there is going to be a vaccine resistant variant, SA is a good place for it to come from (given all the covid vaccine trials there, including the Bill Gates sponsored one*).

As it stands there's no reason to worry about a vaccine resistant virus, because so few people have had the vaccine yet.  The classic or new-covid will run through everyone in the country and the almost certainly less infectious SA-covid won't have a chance.

Well, unless of course, they get everyone to isolate so that the mild strains can't run riot, vaccinate all the vulnerable ones so that there are loads of them, and then suddenly let everyone out again -- that's a recipe for the SA-covid to run rampant though the vaccinated community, killing all of them. 

Even worse would be to keep covid at bay while we vaccinated everyone, and then letting the SA variant loose -- same end effect though.

Note that the SA variant isn't actually necessary -- covid will mutate to survive.  It isn't a DNA virus, which are genetically quite stable, but an RNA virus which mutate rapidly (albeit not as rapidly as some).  It will mutate no matter what, and if the population of 'people to infect' have all been vaccinated, it'll mutate to get around it.

Oh, also we can only use the Oxford vaccine approach once (no matter how much the politico-medics say that we'll vaccinate every year, just like flu) -- so once it mutates to get around the vaccine it is game-over for the vaccinate approach..

Best thing to do would be to vaccinate the vulnerable and then let the virus infect as many non-vulnerable as possible.  That way the most likely mutations would be to get around prior immunity, rather than the artificial vaccine immunity (as that would be a minority in the population).

No point in telling TPTB this.  I'd imagine they already know.  So long as no-one else knows then they can just be surprised when their plans fail.

[*it works by turning your body off, and then on again]

 

This is a really interesting and useful post. I do hope it is not bollox o.O

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Chewing Grass

I imagine South Africa will be the place where Bill Gates ends up funding it being 'accidentally' mixed with AIDS...

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Chewing Grass
33 minutes ago, A tremendous # on the lung said:

Vallance today suggested that the vaccine would almost certainly be helpful against the SA strain, but potentially not as effective. 

Thats a typical arse covering backtracking statement a government employee would say to cover all bases.

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Van Lady
8 minutes ago, dgul said:

I think we just don't know.

But if there is going to be a vaccine resistant variant, SA is a good place for it to come from (given all the covid vaccine trials there, including the Bill Gates sponsored one*).

As it stands there's no reason to worry about a vaccine resistant virus, because so few people have had the vaccine yet.  The classic or new-covid will run through everyone in the country and the almost certainly less infectious SA-covid won't have a chance.

Well, unless of course, they get everyone to isolate so that the mild strains can't run riot, vaccinate all the vulnerable ones so that there are loads of them, and then suddenly let everyone out again -- that's a recipe for the SA-covid to run rampant though the vaccinated community, killing all of them. 

Even worse would be to keep covid at bay while we vaccinated everyone, and then letting the SA variant loose -- same end effect though.

Note that the SA variant isn't actually necessary -- covid will mutate to survive.  It isn't a DNA virus, which are genetically quite stable, but an RNA virus which mutate rapidly (albeit not as rapidly as some).  It will mutate no matter what, and if the population of 'people to infect' have all been vaccinated, it'll mutate to get around it.

Oh, also we can only use the Oxford vaccine approach once (no matter how much the politico-medics say that we'll vaccinate every year, just like flu) -- so once it mutates to get around the vaccine it is game-over for the vaccinate approach..

Best thing to do would be to vaccinate the vulnerable and then let the virus infect as many non-vulnerable as possible.  That way the most likely mutations would be to get around prior immunity, rather than the artificial vaccine immunity (as that would be a minority in the population).

No point in telling TPTB this.  I'd imagine they already know.  So long as no-one else knows then they can just be surprised when their plans fail.

[*it works by turning your body off, and then on again]

The way the government guided by “science” are reacting to the new virus makes it possible for a worse situation to evolve, in my opinion.

Why can’t so called enlightened humanity take a common sense approach and work with how nature is?

They’re like king Canute trying to hold back the tide.!

I’ve thought for a number of years now that man made chemicals will be the downfall of humanity. I hope these rushed vaccines aren’t going to be a catalyst.

Nature will win though, in my opinion.

 

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7 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

 

This is a really interesting and useful post. I do hope it is not bollox o.O

Might be!  Best not to trust anyone on the internet!

[I might dig out a reference if I can be bothered later]

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8 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

 

This is a really interesting and useful post. I do hope it is not bollox o.O

[I suppose I should point out that the 'killing all of them' was artistic license -- it'll end up being about the same lethality as classic-covid, new-covid and covid-lite when that comes along]

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30 minutes ago, Van Lady said:

The way the government guided by “science” are reacting to the new virus makes it possible for a worse situation to evolve, in my opinion.

Why can’t so called enlightened humanity take a common sense approach and work with how nature is?

They’re like king Canute trying to hold back the tide.!

I’ve thought for a number of years now that man made chemicals will be the downfall of humanity. I hope these rushed vaccines aren’t going to be a catalyst.

Nature will win though, in my opinion.

 

It is a really important point, VL.  I don't understand why no sciency-person isn't saying 'and then what'll happen?'  We're worrying about tomorrow without considering what that'll mean for next week.

[I don't like the vaccines.  I believe there's been insufficient testing for roll-out to individuals who won't directly benefit.  And I really don't like the 'they're vaccines!' that keeps getting pushing onto me -- they're (all) completely unlike conventional vaccines, to the point that they shouldn't (IMO) actually be called vaccines at all.  But calling them 'vaccines' suggests that they're not a novel technology and thus shouldn't be scary.  I've no idea where it'll go -- but I don't think anyone does.

As an example of 'I just don't know'.  Humans have antibodies against coronaviruses if they've been exposed (and all of us have for at least some of them).  There are two main coronavirus protein 'type' that are targeted by the immune system -- the spike protein (S) and the nucleocapsid protein (N) (ie, the spikey bit that sticks to the body's cells (apparently, according to all the pictures I've seen in the newspapers) and the main 'ball' bit (sort-of, if you squint a bit) respectively).  All of the vaccines target the S protein.  The human immune system preferentially targets the N protein.  But why?  It isn't as though it can't (there are S protein antibodies, just it they're not as common).  I can give three possibilities -- i) It is just like that, no reason; ii) the body has evolved to target N because the S is more variable and thus S antibodies don't 'last so well'; iii) there's a problem with the S protein being sufficiently similar to other proteins that S-antibodies can cause auto-immune diseases, so the body evolved to not target S.  I'd say here that the most likely explanation is i), but I can't just exclude ii) or III).  The question then might be -- just why did all the vaccine developers choose to target the S protein instead of the N?  I just don't know the answer to that]

Edited by dgul
Never apologise, never explain.
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Chewing Grass
2 minutes ago, dgul said:

It is a really important point, VL.  I don't understand why no sciency-person isn't saying 'and then what'll happen?'  We're worrying about tomorrow without considering what that'll mean for next week.

The law of unintended consequences which is Inversely Proportional to Time.

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17 minutes ago, dgul said:

All of the vaccines target the S protein.  The human immune system preferentially targets the N protein. 

Blah  blah blah.

As a point of interest, the SA variant has lots of mutations in the S protein.  This is why they're worrying about the vaccines' efficacy against SA-covid.  Natural immunity will include antibodies against N (mainly) and S, and there's not so many mutations in the N protein so you'd imagine that the natural immunity would provide better immunity against SA. 

Yet everyone tells me that the vaccines are 'better' than natural immunity.  I can't find any actual scientific source that says that it should be so, or why.  [It might well be true for stable DNA based viruses -- but that's not what we're dealing with here].

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Van Lady
32 minutes ago, dgul said:

I just don't know the answer

Neither do I but thanks again for your detailed and informative posts about possible unintended consequences due to lack of detailed scientific testing, debate and in depth consideration for the overall usefulness of the rushed vaccines.

Personally I’ve thought for many months that the new virus isn’t a threatening pandemic to all people. Agree with doing the best for the vulnerable and let others who are low risk get on with life viewpoints.

The stakes are high, in my opinion. Humanity, those with power, currently think they are clever....maybe just want to make money? How I wish we could return to a more natural science where we were more humble as a species regarding our place in the grand scheme of the mostly unknown universe.

My fear levels are currently heightened not by Covid but the reaction to it. Unbelievably stupid, in my opinion.

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Green Devil
3 hours ago, dgul said:

I think we just don't know.

But if there is going to be a vaccine resistant variant, SA is a good place for it to come from (given all the covid vaccine trials there, including the Bill Gates sponsored one*).

As it stands there's no reason to worry about a vaccine resistant virus, because so few people have had the vaccine yet.  The classic or new-covid will run through everyone in the country and the almost certainly less infectious SA-covid won't have a chance.

Well, unless of course, they get everyone to isolate so that the mild strains can't run riot, vaccinate all the vulnerable ones so that there are loads of them, and then suddenly let everyone out again -- that's a recipe for the SA-covid to run rampant though the vaccinated community, killing all of them. 

Even worse would be to keep covid at bay while we vaccinated everyone, and then letting the SA variant loose -- same end effect though.

Note that the SA variant isn't actually necessary -- covid will mutate to survive.  It isn't a DNA virus, which are genetically quite stable, but an RNA virus which mutate rapidly (albeit not as rapidly as some).  It will mutate no matter what, and if the population of 'people to infect' have all been vaccinated, it'll mutate to get around it.

Oh, also we can only use the Oxford vaccine approach once (no matter how much the politico-medics say that we'll vaccinate every year, just like flu) -- so once it mutates to get around the vaccine it is game-over for the vaccinate approach..

Best thing to do would be to vaccinate the vulnerable and then let the virus infect as many non-vulnerable as possible.  That way the most likely mutations would be to get around prior immunity, rather than the artificial vaccine immunity (as that would be a minority in the population).

No point in telling TPTB this.  I'd imagine they already know.  So long as no-one else knows then they can just be surprised when their plans fail.

[*it works by turning your body off, and then on again]

Virus mutation is a game of chance. The less there is out there the less chance of a mutation. 

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unregistered_guest
10 hours ago, dgul said:

[I suppose I should point out that the 'killing all of them' was artistic license -- it'll end up being about the same lethality as classic-covid, new-covid and covid-lite when that comes along]

I'm holding out for Covid-Max (all the lethality, none of the symptoms) and a range of Covid-Twist with a hint of (insert virus of your choice here).

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7 minutes ago, ashestoashes said:

I was just reading that myself, glad to see a fellow zerohedge aficionado

I hope this ones start killing everyone, it's been rather boring so far :P

What's the difference between this 501.V2 and the one doing the rounds in UK?

We need a database of names...it Dave.V9 vs Ken.V8.....who will survive this round of dodgy virus vaccines :Jumping:

Edited by 5min OCD speculator
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Mental Floss
11 hours ago, dgul said:

Yet everyone tells me that the vaccines are 'better' than natural immunity.  I can't find any actual scientific source that says that it should be so, or why.  [It might well be true for stable DNA based viruses -- but that's not what we're dealing with here].

That’s something that’s been bothering me. One of the talking heads made a statement the other day along the lines of:

‘Every vaccinated person makes everyone a little bit safer”

Well logically surely the same goes for every single person that has Covid and recovers right?

I don’t have enough understanding to come to a conclusion but doesn’t vaccination rely on simply prompting the same immune response but to a less harmful infection? There seems to be a belief that these particular vaccines confer some sort of super immunity...

Also I hate to be a pedant (not really) but I’d like to pick up @Van Lady's point.

I’d love King Canute to be in charge now. It has been distorted through time but the whole point of that story is precisely the opposite to the now common use of it.  It’s not about arrogance, it’s about humility.

King Canute was in dispute with a bunch of advisors who believed that a King had ultimate authority. Canute wished to demonstrate to them that God clearly stood above him. So he set up a practical demonstration of that fact. He didn’t try and hold back the tide, he fully understood the futility of doing so.

if you substitute “God” for “Nature” King Canute tells us all we need to know about the approach we are taking. More humility in the face of nature would go a long way.....

 

 

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