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From the Times

Aviva and Cantor Fitzgerald offer pension punts on bitcoin
Investors can now bet their pensions on cryptocurrency, as Cantor Fitzgerald and Aviva have teamed up to offer a facility for tracking bitcoin, whose value has risen fourfold since March to reach an all-time high of over $23,000 (€18,500) before Christmas.

Rather than investing directly in the digital currency, access is through an exchange-traded fund (ETF) listed on the Deutsche Börse, which tracks its price. This avoids the need for a cryptocurrency wallet to store the bitcoin. Pension investors can trade by buying and selling shares in the ETF through Cantor Fitzgerald.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/aviva-and-cantor-fitzgerald-offer-pension-punts-on-bitcoin-0qq73brz2

 

Might be a useful way to open it up to the non-techies for a long-term buy? 

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3 hours ago, Southmartin said:

Rather than investing directly in the digital currency, access is through an exchange-traded fund (ETF) listed on the Deutsche Börse, which tracks its price. This avoids the need for a cryptocurrency wallet to store the bitcoin. Pension investors can trade by buying and selling shares in the ETF through Cantor Fitzgerald.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/aviva-and-cantor-fitzgerald-offer-pension-punts-on-bitcoin-0qq73brz2

 

Might be a useful way to open it up to the non-techies for a long-term buy? 

and how does the ETF do that?  Does it actually own bitcoin, or (as with some ETFs) is there some complex instrument backed by Deutsche bank that promises to pay out, no, honest guvnor, I will, honest...... oh, it's all gone.

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This is dangerous unless it's properly regulated. I might dip my toe as a hedge like gold (miners) in my portfolio. 5% of total max but enthusiastic lesser amateurs might go all in.

I get that people have got extremely rich off the back of bitcoin but I bet only a few of them actually understand the mechanics of how they got there. They should add lottery tickets to the fund options while they're at it. 

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My pension is on a Trezor wallet cold stored away from the thieving bastards in the pension industry and completely separate from the bent debt-based money system.

Like you say, this is great for technophobes, but not for blue pilled people. It will increase capital flows into fwempcoin though so it's all good.

I remember I was getting charged like 0.005% a day for going long bitcoin in an IG spreadbet. These guys will gouge you for holding the one true coin no doubt. 

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2 hours ago, longtomsilver said:

This is dangerous unless it's properly regulated. I might dip my toe as a hedge like gold (miners) in my portfolio. 5% of total max but enthusiastic lesser amateurs might go all in.

I get that people have got extremely rich off the back of bitcoin but I bet only a few of them actually understand the mechanics of how they got there. They should add lottery tickets to the fund options while they're at it. 

I suspect most of them have profits yet to be realized too (if you remember Grant Bogey).

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How is bitcoin different from a ponzi?

If people stop buying it [paying in] what value does it have / how can it pay back anything [food /shelter / medicine]?

If people no longer think it's a useful store of value to exchange for stuff in the future, why would it not go to zero fast?

Of course fiat will also go to zero over decades/centuries but in a steady slow way which is why it's used to pay for food, shelter, etc. BTC could go to zero tomorrow and there would be no problem except a few who used to think they had something of value would be unhappy. If fiat went to zero overnight no-one can buy milk or bread the next day.

I understand all the enthusiasts and why it could fix the problems of fiat but at the moment it looks like just a speculative bubble for gamblers and becoming more so. A while back there was some trendy craze of being able to pay a coffee with BTC, still possible? or has that died and how do they price if it doubles in a day or two?

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4 hours ago, BWW said:

How is bitcoin different from a ponzi?

yeah I agree.....it's just another 'market'.......food is a market, TV is a market, folk get brainwashed by those too...

you've probably never heard of food called a ponzi before but the way it makes folks bellies explode and makes the NHS billions I think I can argue otherwise :Jumping:

mr market can give every day, you just need to find the right train......btc was tracking nasdaq then it made a severe breakout, I missed that train.......no good waving at runaway trains, move on :P

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11 hours ago, longtomsilver said:

This is dangerous unless it's properly regulated. I might dip my toe as a hedge like gold (miners) in my portfolio. 5% of total max but enthusiastic lesser amateurs might go all in.

I get that people have got extremely rich off the back of bitcoin but I bet only a few of them actually understand the mechanics of how they got there. They should add lottery tickets to the fund options while they're at it. 

That always happens.

People who have never invested in their lives and know nothing about it suddenly go all in with a "can't lose" mentality.

This was most recently the case with the German property company Dolphin, one bloke lost his whole £250k pension, and this is just the latest in a very long line.

One of my early jobs was working on the clear up of the fraudulent mess that was Barlow Clowes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barlow_Clowes

 

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7 hours ago, BWW said:

How is bitcoin different from a ponzi?

If people stop buying it [paying in] what value does it have / how can it pay back anything [food /shelter / medicine]?

If people no longer think it's a useful store of value to exchange for stuff in the future, why would it not go to zero fast?

Of course fiat will also go to zero over decades/centuries but in a steady slow way which is why it's used to pay for food, shelter, etc. BTC could go to zero tomorrow and there would be no problem except a few who used to think they had something of value would be unhappy. If fiat went to zero overnight no-one can buy milk or bread the next day.

I understand all the enthusiasts and why it could fix the problems of fiat but at the moment it looks like just a speculative bubble for gamblers and becoming more so. A while back there was some trendy craze of being able to pay a coffee with BTC, still possible? or has that died and how do they price if it doubles in a day or two?

This is all true, but you can still cash in bigly with a ponzi scheme. As with anything it's just timing. A longer term investment like a pension is madness IMO.

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