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New interest in EU workers benefits


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1 hour ago, sarahbell said:

 

4bn

 

The article is old - 2018 -and the numbers are waaaay out, based on ~3m

To benefits - TCs, HB, you need to add ~20k for each kid born in NHS and 7k/y schooling.

And you also need to add up the cost of the Euers in prisons.

 

In reference to the thread on here and TOS, by the most handsomest coolest person on the interweb spy[girl/guiy]

The pitch up to the Brexit vote was that there were 3m EUers in the UK, working.

That was true before TCs and EE FOM, so OK ~2000.

Its been out of whack since the first Polish family turned up in the UK in the early 2000s.

 

I stand by my figures of ~7m-8m EUers in the UK.

The majority are families with school age kids, doing low paid/no jobs.

 

The initiallyal wave of Northern EEs were joined by countries like Spain, Portugal, Italy after the Euro debt crisis, then followed by Balkans.

What the UK should have done is allowed 3m visa to remain.

Once theyve been handed out, they are gone. The other 3m-4m can fuck off.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Read the story and it's light on detail and actual numbers. Here's my takeaway:

There is a stark contrast between Western and Eastern Europeans.

Nearly half the personal taxes paid by migrants from countries such as Romania, Bulgaria and Poland went straight back in tax credits and child benefit.

DWP figures were not broken down by country.

But if they followed a similar distribution, then almost all of the taxes went back in working-age benefit.

So what's your point Spy? That the "migrants" selected for the study were a net financial benefit to the country?

What the hell is a "migrant" anyway. My fairly well-off Spanish friend has lived in UK for 30+ years and built several decent size companies. Paid bazillions in taxes and never had any benefits. I suppose that doesn't count when The Sun wants to sell rubbish about bastard foreigners bleeding us dry.

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24 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

Read the story and it's light on detail and actual numbers. Here's my takeaway:

There is a stark contrast between Western and Eastern Europeans.

Nearly half the personal taxes paid by migrants from countries such as Romania, Bulgaria and Poland went straight back in tax credits and child benefit.

DWP figures were not broken down by country.

But if they followed a similar distribution, then almost all of the taxes went back in working-age benefit.

So what's your point Spy? That the "migrants" selected for the study were a net financial benefit to the country?

What the hell is a "migrant" anyway. My fairly well-off Spanish friend has lived in UK for 30+ years and built several decent size companies. Paid bazillions in taxes and never had any benefits. I suppose that doesn't count when The Sun wants to sell rubbish about bastard foreigners bleeding us dry.

My point is that ta credits and other in-work subs blur the line between benefits and work.

Opening up the these gormless benefits benefits to the EU esp. as the EE FOM kicks in was an act of insanity.

 

The UK has a daft non contribution, needs based benefit system.

The rest of the Europe doesnt.

Every EUer in mrs spsy class of the last ~5 years has been on the lowest income i.e. benefit dependent.

As well as Poles, Romanians, etc, the families have also inc Portuguese and Spanish, most of which have piled into the UK when their home countries benefits ran out  and their economy remains flat on its back down to EU/ECB/bent Pols.

 

 

 

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These figures do not appear to include the increased domestic handouts that may have occurred due to these migrants. 

If we went on an estimate of 2m PT jobs replacing 1m FT jobs then we have potentially another 1m non-EU now claiming their share. 

You can argue that the mass migration has created most of those jobs but I bet it's not all. 

2 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

I agree that needs a good looking at. It's a separate issue from Bloody Foreigners. 

If they'd looked at it then Brexit wouldn't have happened. Unfortunately they made us force their arm. 

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29 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

Read the story and it's light on detail and actual numbers. Here's my takeaway:

There is a stark contrast between Western and Eastern Europeans.

Nearly half the personal taxes paid by migrants from countries such as Romania, Bulgaria and Poland went straight back in tax credits and child benefit.

DWP figures were not broken down by country.

But if they followed a similar distribution, then almost all of the taxes went back in working-age benefit.

So what's your point Spy? That the "migrants" selected for the study were a net financial benefit to the country?

What the hell is a "migrant" anyway. My fairly well-off Spanish friend has lived in UK for 30+ years and built several decent size companies. Paid bazillions in taxes and never had any benefits. I suppose that doesn't count when The Sun wants to sell rubbish about bastard foreigners bleeding us dry.

Migrants, like all of us, use more services than benefits alone. Health services, education services, transport services including roads, housing services, policing etc. Without immigration we wouldn't have needed to invest in increased transport infrastructure, more schools, so many new hospitals, etc. Mostly we would have had maintenance expenditure on these items.

Benefits are way less than half Government expenditure. If a group of people are taking back half the tax they pay in benefits then they are a net drain on the Exchequer. The average person is a net drain but these people more than that.

Some are entrepreneurs who have done good things but they are greatly outnumbered.

There is no doubt that migration from Eastern Europe has been a cost on the average British person. Paid through taxes, congestion and poorer services. This doesn't matter to the businesses who employ them as they get cheaper labour and a lower requirement to invest in efficiency and training.

Western European immigration has paid for itself. Whether it is a good thing is debatable. Very often they're taking good jobs that our own citizens could have been trained for. At least it isn't one sided and doesn't lead to me paying more tax for less. However, even here, we could cherry pick those we want.

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4 minutes ago, The Generation Game said:

These figures do not appear to include the increased domestic handouts that may have occurred due to these migrants. 

If we went on an estimate of 2m PT jobs replacing 1m FT jobs then we have potentially another 1m non-EU now claiming their share. 

You can argue that the mass migration has created most of those jobs but I bet it's not all. 

If they'd looked at it then Brexit wouldn't have happened. Unfortunately they made us force their arm. 

A very pertinent point. The total benefit cost of immigration should include
the impact of deplacing existing citizens from the workforce onto benefits. There is also the cost of driving down wages which inflates the overall tax credit bill.

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1 minute ago, Virgil Caine said:

A very pertinent point. The total benefit cost of immigration should include
the impact of deplacing existing citizens from the workforce onto benefits. There is also the cost of driving down wages which inflates the overall tax credit bill.

Which increase taxes for those who work and so lowers their standard of living further.

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19 minutes ago, Yadda yadda yadda said:

Migrants, like all of us, use more services than benefits alone. Health services, education services, transport services including roads, housing services, policing etc. Without immigration we wouldn't have needed to invest in increased transport infrastructure, more schools, so many new hospitals, etc. Mostly we would have had maintenance expenditure on these items.

Benefits are way less than half Government expenditure. If a group of people are taking back half the tax they pay in benefits then they are a net drain on the Exchequer. The average person is a net drain but these people more than that.

Exactly, in the very simplest terms, we are running a deficit so the bigger our population the worse off we are. And that is just in pure financial terms so ignoring other quality of life factors like overloaded transport/schools/health etc infrastructure.

Edited by goldbug9999
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Was there a period EUers have/had to be working before they could claim in-work benefits? Seem to recall you have to work for four years or a similar period?

Seems totally unfair if you could just turn up work 15hr a week then top the rest up. Am I missing something?

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3 hours ago, Virgil Caine said:

A very pertinent point. The total benefit cost of immigration should include
the impact of deplacing existing citizens from the workforce onto benefits. There is also the cost of driving down wages which inflates the overall tax credit bill.

Don't forget that these people seem to jump the queue, as part of some type (?) of governmental quota system and are blatantly given preference.

Here is the proof:

P9M4gRU.jpg

EU applicants are 'particularly welcome', per the Northern Ireland Employment Service's own website (www.jobcentreonline.com).  This by definition means that locals are not particularly welcome.

Any job interviews I attended in 2020 had Slavs in there also lobbying.  The most recent, one interviewee was taken per session, so a guest book had to be signed.  The names above mine were riddled with Polish shit.  I of course heard nothing back.

The above looks like 'positive discrimination', even post-Brexit.  You'd almost be tempted to sue for discrimination, but you wouldn't find a lawyer to fight your corner and if you did, the judge would throw the book at you.

Fuck this.

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46 minutes ago, mh9000 said:

Was there a period EUers have/had to be working before they could claim in-work benefits? Seem to recall you have to work for four years or a similar period?

Seems totally unfair if you could just turn up work 15hr a week then top the rest up. Am I missing something?

Until TCs EUers were limited by jsa.

Yes, 16h + top up is unfair. See tax credit sad face on TOS.

UK benefits need gutting n restarting.

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4 hours ago, Virgil Caine said:

A very pertinent point. The total benefit cost of immigration should include
the impact of deplacing existing citizens from the workforce onto benefits. There is also the cost of driving down wages which inflates the overall tax credit bill.

Minimum wage for imported  for any country  should be at 1.5x mean wage.

 

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Radio .....

Blah blah .... Spain, the EU country with the most UK ...... new visa to apply to remain there....

50k have applied

Jesus.

New rules to stay in Spain... min 24k earnings

 

A *huge* number of Spanish have piled into the UK since ~2010ish.

Getting on 5 to 1 Spanish in UK v Brits in Spain.

And Spain has the largest number of Brits expats, by a huge margin.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/eu-settlement-scheme-quarterly-statistics-september-2020/eu-settlement-scheme-quarterly-statistics-september-2020

  • Polish (773,840)
  • Romanian (670,600)
  • Italian (401,800)
  • Portuguese (306,350)
  • Spanish (246,600)

 

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33 minutes ago, Chewing Grass said:

A huge number don't scrape anywhere near that which includes most of their EU/EE agri workers, but they will be OK.

When are they starting turfing out British Pensioners who won't be able to sell their Spanish Villas and Flats.

Thats the way it goes.

Most Brits live in Brit enclaves i.e. noone to buy the house/flat.

Not that most of the places are worth anything like they paid for it pre 2008.

 

The interestign thing is how the acces to free stuff i nthe UK moves forward.

If most of the Brits leave Spain, leaving only some teachers in France then the case for continued access to bennies and free public services is going to change rapidly.

Im expecting this in June, when the final tally comes in.

Officially, Id guess the numbers will be 6m.

Unoffically therell be 2m-3m more.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, wherebee said:

Whenever anyone visits me here in Oz, they almost always at some point comment on how  it stands out that they are served in cafes and fast food places by australian kids and young adults.

That was one of the first thing that struck me when we moved here, even coming from The Surrey villages.

It may be because you can't even be considered for council housing until you have been resident for 5 years, or it may be that there isn't a ready made community for them to move in to.

Edited by Wight Flight
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1 hour ago, Wight Flight said:

That was one of the first thing that struck me when we moved here, even coming from recuRrent villages.

It may be because you can't even be considered for council housing until you have been resident for 5 years, or it may be that there isn't a ready made community for them to move in to.

Round here having no family locally pushes you up the housing list. 

 

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1 hour ago, wherebee said:

Whenever anyone visits me here in Oz, they almost always at some point comment on how  it stands out that they are served in cafes and fast food places by australian kids and young adults.  When they ask why, I always say :"because if you restrict immigration, the value of labour goes up and the employer has to pay them more.  It is a win, win, because the young learn to work and pay taxes, and the rich/poor divide is less".

Its so obvious that it almost causes me physical pain that people dont get it.

Meanwhile EVERYWHERE you go you here in the UK, service station, town center cafe, country pub, fucking everywhere ... you will be served by some miserble po faced EEer (who might granted have nice tits ...) acting like they are doing you a favour by serving you.

Edited by goldbug9999
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