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Can your employer insist that you have the Covid vaccine


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2 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

Thought I would start a thread as I believe it will only be a matter of time before the government uses the H&S at Work Act to force this on employers. Here's an article to start:

https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/covid-vaccinations-ethics-employers/

If they take responsibility for any adverse side effects otherwise they can fuck off.

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13 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

Accordingly, employers must be prepared with a response when employees object to being forced to undergo COVID-19 vaccination as a condition of employment. Our suggestion is that you discuss the options with legal counsel before establishing a mandatory vaccination policy.

This is why big American Employers are generally cunts and the rights of the company far exceed that of the employee to object to just about anything.

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1 hour ago, Sasquatch said:

I am my employer and having had a discussion with myself, we have agreed that it will be voluntary within my company.

 

I am as well.

I have insisted I take it, but as I refused, I have sacked myself.

I am now seeking £50k as a tax free sum for wrongful dismissal (I am not greedy, and am prepared to settle out of court)

I think the best option is to pay up and reinstate myself to my previous position.

 

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There's already a mandatory 'flu vaccination for my workplace (NHS hospital) - but that's for new starters.  Existing staff - it's not in your contract so it would require a change of contract / going for a new job.

I've joined a union recently in light of all these changes.  I've not bothered with the 'flu vaccination for that last 5 years or so, I remember when I did have it (in a previous job) I was OK, but the last one I took I did have a bit of a reaction, my arm swelled up quite a bit so I thought fuck that.  I have a medical history of various 'allergies' - hayfever, psorasis and eczema , so I wonder if I'll be able to use that get out of jail card?

As for covid-19 vaccination, my workplace is going all gung-ho and trying to get everyone 'jabbed', the last email recently boasted on 2,000 staff having the jolly jab .... the sheeple really are sheep aren't they?

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8 hours ago, JFK said:

There's already a mandatory 'flu vaccination for my workplace (NHS hospital) - but that's for new starters.  Existing staff - it's not in your contract so it would require a change of contract / going for a new job.

I've joined a union recently in light of all these changes.  I've not bothered with the 'flu vaccination for that last 5 years or so, I remember when I did have it (in a previous job) I was OK, but the last one I took I did have a bit of a reaction, my arm swelled up quite a bit so I thought fuck that.  I have a medical history of various 'allergies' - hayfever, psorasis and eczema , so I wonder if I'll be able to use that get out of jail card?

As for covid-19 vaccination, my workplace is going all gung-ho and trying to get everyone 'jabbed', the last email recently boasted on 2,000 staff having the jolly jab .... the sheeple really are sheep aren't they?

Re the flu jab which do you think is more likely? The more years you have it the more your immunity builds up or the more years you have it the less it helps your immunity?

Are you hearing anything about the number of people having adverse reactions to the vaccines? Two NHS staff were on the floor the first day and we have done another 2m since but I've not heard a single report of one since. There must be some.

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32 minutes ago, Democorruptcy said:

Re the flu jab which do you think is more likely? The more years you have it the more your immunity builds up or the more years you have it the less it helps your immunity?

I'm not sure, the biologist in me would say that the immune system really is an absolute marvel of evolution.  It truly is fascinating in how adaptive T-cell mediated immunity works, how it can defend against a huge range of pathogens, break them down, process bits of them and present them to the immune system then develop specific antibodies that will neutralise that pathogen/infected cells and produce memory cells that remain in your body for the next time it is challenged.  It truly is amazing and something that always stuck with me, but also, you realise the fine balance of it - how the immune system is downregulated during pregnancy (the foetus for all purposes is a 'foreign' body to the immune system, hence why many auto-immune conditions reduce during pregnancy ... and the advise against vaccination!), how the immune system can go haywire and you have various allergies, auto-immune diseases etc.

The immune system memory-B cells aren't eternal and you do lose an immune response with time - hence why you need 'boosters' for certain pathogens, tetanus for example (10 years isn't it?), but these are diseases which by and large haven't changed and we are very, very lucky in this period of human history to have a medical intervention where we can prevent diseases which killed/disabled a LOT of people (diptheria, whooping cough, scarlet fever, polio, german measles, rubella, mumps, influenza, etc).

So I think that for certain pathogens vaccination makes total and utter sense - the normal routine vaccinations.   These pathogens by and large don't change much or have been eradicated (smallpox), for the seasonal flu you are repeatedly challenging the immune system with a pathogen - which is a slight variation of the same family of pathogens of course - so I do wonder if that repeated challenging leads to an eventual falling off of effectiveness , or increasing the chance of immune dysregulation.  The human body isn't an infallible machine, in fact, it's amazing that it doesn't go wrong more! It's a constant balance between regeneration, removal of faulty cells, adaption, breaking down etc.

The seasonal flu is slightly different due to the nature of the disease itself, it's high level of mutation and the 'flow' of viruses between different animal populations (foul, pig, human) that can lead to the extreme antigen shift that leads to the various pandemics (swine flu, avian flu etc).  Plus the fact that the traditional vaccine production using growth in eggs take a long time until a viable product brought to market so that is there is a 'best guestimate' of the predominate flu vaccine strains for the next season (the flu vaccine being a mixture of 3 or so strains to gamble on decent coverage).

So to finally answer the question I think flu vaccination will help when the person is young - their immune system is robust, it can cope with challenges, but the paradox is that flu isn't that much of a problem if you're young and in good health.  Flu is a problem for the very young (children) and the old, hence us targetting that population during normal seasonal flu.

The total over-reaction to covid to get as many people vaccinated, regardless of their individual risk, is dumb.  Plus the fact of the new vaccine formulation and the total lack of any vigorous safety testing, which we are going to see over the next few years.  They will be forgotten of course.  Or hidden away, not reported on, memory holed , caught up in litigation that will be kept quiet for years (see the narcolepsy ADE recently)
 

32 minutes ago, Democorruptcy said:

Are you hearing anything about the number of people having adverse reactions to the vaccines? Two NHS staff were on the floor the first day and we have done another 2m since but I've not heard a single report of one since. There must be some.

I'm keeping a very interested eye on the team I'm in as they're constantly talking about it.   Recent email went around saying the organisation has vaccinated 2,200 staff and will use up their current allocation of stock.  Pretty good achievement actually.  But amazing how many people are just swallowing the narrative.  I'm not surprised, we're probably a self-selecting <1% of the population here on dosbods.  Apparently the current level of staff off due to 'covid-19' is just over 100 (this is a meaningless number as it's not broken down by off due to positive test / shielding due to contact with someone positive / got the sniffles), think that would be around 5% of staff.

2 people were talking about their responses today, one guy has a swelling under his armpit (probably lymph node swelling, seems biologically right as any immune system response would be noticed there) another guy has quite a uncomfortable arm too.   I shall report back frequently, but there is no way the organisation would report openly any ADE's, that just isn't going to happen.  It's only going to come out after the event and will probably need stuff like FOIs etc.

Watch this space

 

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5 minutes ago, JFK said:

 

 

I'm not sure, the biologist in me would say that the immune system really is an absolute marvel of evolution.  It truly is fascinating in how adaptive T-cell mediated immunity works, how it can defend against a huge range of pathogens, break them down, process bits of them and present them to the immune system then develop specific antibodies that will neutralise that pathogen/infected cells and produce memory cells that remain in your body for the next time it is challenged.  It truly is amazing and something that always stuck with me, but also, you realise the fine balance of it - how the immune system is downregulated during pregnancy (the foetus for all purposes is a 'foreign' body to the immune system, hence why many auto-immune conditions reduce during pregnancy ... and the advise against vaccination!), how the immune system can go haywire and you have various allergies, auto-immune diseases etc.

The immune system memory-B cells aren't eternal and you do lose an immune response with time - hence why you need 'boosters' for certain pathogens, tetanus for example (10 years isn't it?), but these are diseases which by and large haven't changed and we are very, very lucky in this period of human history to have a medical intervention where we can prevent diseases which killed/disabled a LOT of people (diptheria, whooping cough, scarlet fever, polio, german measles, rubella, mumps, influenza, etc).

So I think that for certain pathogens vaccination makes total and utter sense - the normal routine vaccinations.   These pathogens by and large don't change much or have been eradicated (smallpox), for the seasonal flu you are repeatedly challenging the immune system with a pathogen - which is a slight variation of the same family of pathogens of course - so I do wonder if that repeated challenging leads to an eventual falling off of effectiveness , or increasing the chance of immune dysregulation.  The human body isn't an infallible machine, in fact, it's amazing that it doesn't go wrong more! It's a constant balance between regeneration, removal of faulty cells, adaption, breaking down etc.

The seasonal flu is slightly different due to the nature of the disease itself, it's high level of mutation and the 'flow' of viruses between different animal populations (foul, pig, human) that can lead to the extreme antigen shift that leads to the various pandemics (swine flu, avian flu etc).  Plus the fact that the traditional vaccine production using growth in eggs take a long time until a viable product brought to market so that is there is a 'best guestimate' of the predominate flu vaccine strains for the next season (the flu vaccine being a mixture of 3 or so strains to gamble on decent coverage).

So to finally answer the question I think flu vaccination will help when the person is young - their immune system is robust, it can cope with challenges, but the paradox is that flu isn't that much of a problem if you're young and in good health.  Flu is a problem for the very young (children) and the old, hence us targetting that population during normal seasonal flu.

The total over-reaction to covid to get as many people vaccinated, regardless of their individual risk, is dumb.  Plus the fact of the new vaccine formulation and the total lack of any vigorous safety testing, which we are going to see over the next few years.  They will be forgotten of course.  Or hidden away, not reported on, memory holed , caught up in litigation that will be kept quiet for years (see the narcolepsy ADE recently)
 

I'm keeping a very interested eye on the team I'm in as they're constantly talking about it.   Recent email went around saying the organisation has vaccinated 2,200 staff and will use up their current allocation of stock.  Pretty good achievement actually.  But amazing how many people are just swallowing the narrative.  I'm not surprised, we're probably a self-selecting <1% of the population here on dosbods.  Apparently the current level of staff off due to 'covid-19' is just over 100 (this is a meaningless number as it's not broken down by off due to positive test / shielding due to contact with someone positive / got the sniffles), think that would be around 5% of staff.

2 people were talking about their responses today, one guy has a swelling under his armpit (probably lymph node swelling, seems biologically right as any immune system response would be noticed there) another guy has quite a uncomfortable arm too.   I shall report back frequently, but there is no way the organisation would report openly any ADE's, that just isn't going to happen.  It's only going to come out after the event and will probably need stuff like FOIs etc.

Watch this space

 

Thanks for the detail.

I agree the human body is a marvellous thing. I wish I had a spare younger one in the cupboard.

The reason I was asking about repeated flu jabs is a friend who has never had one before recently went for it. She said her neighbour told her the more times you have it, the more immunity you get. This neighbour has a daughter who is a sister in the NHS. My answer was if that's true, why is it really only older people who are dying with (never of!) covid? They are the people who have had the most flu jabs. I suppose age plays a part in that. Even if we had stats on who died and who did or didn't have flu jabs it would be useless because it's people who have died of any cause anyway. We will never know how many people died of covid.

I have no idea how long between Tetanus jabs because I've never had that or any jab. I have had some of the diseases you listed whooping cough, scarlet fever, german measles,  mumps, influenza and one you didn't chickenpox.

Have you heard anything about allergies to the vaccines? I've had bad reactions to Penicillin and Septrin (in a group that can be used to treat pneumonia). My plan is to try wait as long as possible before taking a vaccine. I think ultimately it will be required to travel escape. However why not wait for the one that combats the "bat", mink, UK, South African, <insert other animals/countries> strains?

 

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5 hours ago, JFK said:

Plus the fact of the new vaccine formulation and the total lack of any vigorous safety testing, which we are going to see over the next few years.  They will be forgotten of course.  Or hidden away, not reported on, memory holed , caught up in litigation that will be kept quiet for years (see the narcolepsy ADE recently)

I want to see how it pans out over the long term (ten years) before I decide whether it's worth the risk.  

I don't see how your average GP knows any better than me whether there will be any side effects when no long-term testing has been done yet all those wheeled out to comment sound absolutely certain it will be safe.  They forget at least one of them is a new type of vaccine entirely.

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Well I found out something very interesting today after sitting in on a union online meeting.

My employer has a 'mandatory flu vaccination' policy, I enquired with the union rep if this is true if you change jobs/go onto another pay banding (as I might in the future), which would mean a new contract offered to you.  Union rep said that this mandatory flu vaccination only applies to new people starting at the organisation, it does NOT apply if you are already employed.

So if there are any people out there with this policy, well worth checking out!  I didn't know this at all

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6 minutes ago, JFK said:

Well I found out something very interesting today after sitting in on a union online meeting.

My employer has a 'mandatory flu vaccination' policy, I enquired with the union rep if this is true if you change jobs/go onto another pay banding (as I might in the future), which would mean a new contract offered to you.  Union rep said that this mandatory flu vaccination only applies to new people starting at the organisation, it does NOT apply if you are already employed.

So if there are any people out there with this policy, well worth checking out!  I didn't know this at all

Watch these 

Prof Dolores Cahill WHY PEOPLE WILL START DYING A FEW MONTHS AFTER THE FIRST MRNA "VACCINATIONS"

Edited by tlc
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1 hour ago, JFK said:

Well I found out something very interesting today after sitting in on a union online meeting.

My employer has a 'mandatory flu vaccination' policy, I enquired with the union rep if this is true if you change jobs/go onto another pay banding (as I might in the future), which would mean a new contract offered to you.  Union rep said that this mandatory flu vaccination only applies to new people starting at the organisation, it does NOT apply if you are already employed.

So if there are any people out there with this policy, well worth checking out!  I didn't know this at all

What if you switch trusts? Asking for the missus. 

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20 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

I am as well.

I have insisted I take it, but as I refused, I have sacked myself.

I am now seeking £50k as a tax free sum for wrongful dismissal (I am not greedy, and am prepared to settle out of court)

I think the best option is to pay up and reinstate myself to my previous position.

 

You should have offered to sleep with the boss to get around it....you have nobody to blame but yourself! :-)

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19 hours ago, JFK said:

There's already a mandatory 'flu vaccination for my workplace (NHS hospital) - but that's for new starters.  Existing staff - it's not in your contract so it would require a change of contract / going for a new job.

I've joined a union recently in light of all these changes.  I've not bothered with the 'flu vaccination for that last 5 years or so, I remember when I did have it (in a previous job) I was OK, but the last one I took I did have a bit of a reaction, my arm swelled up quite a bit so I thought fuck that.  I have a medical history of various 'allergies' - hayfever, psorasis and eczema , so I wonder if I'll be able to use that get out of jail card?

As for covid-19 vaccination, my workplace is going all gung-ho and trying to get everyone 'jabbed', the last email recently boasted on 2,000 staff having the jolly jab .... the sheeple really are sheep aren't they?

I think that comes down to a contractual arrangement but i`m sure there is a case for discrimination if the job was given to you but then refused as you refused to sign the contract agreeing to a jab 

20 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Pimlico Plumbers have declared a no jab, no job rule.

Twat.

I thought they were all self employed ?

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