Dutch Windrush Scandal?

[Great Guy 13,644]

Dutch government has resigned. Something about parents being asked to pay back child benefits. The bbc article mentions ""immigrant background" a lot....

I'd guess that poor Ahmed was asked to pay back the child benefits for his 16 kids back in Somalia.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55674146

[JohnnyB 1,026]

Yes, caught my interest due to the distinct lack of 'facts' in the article. Errors on filling forms mentioned. Like "are you a Dutch citizen" perhaps? Added a few extra kids?

[Stuey 3,641]

This ties in to the fact that they have something on everyone, and when they want you gone that's it.

A pretty credible report I've seen says that Boris was given the option of an unsabotaged Brexit so long as he went along with Convid 1984.

I've not looked properly into the Italy goings on but Belarus were hit because they refused lockdown and $1bn from the IMF.

 

[Castlevania 1,712]

Why’s everyone white?

 

[One percent 54,340]

Just now, Castlevania said:

Why’s everyone white?

 

Because they are Dutch. Oh, wait, I shouldn’t say that should I. 

[spygirl 30,991]

Dulce Gonçalves Tavares
Told in 2013 she had to pay back €125,000

 

Which means shes drawn down ~110k in bennies.

Dutch being dutch, i bet the original fraud claim was correct.

 

From her FB.

Lives in 

Rotterdam, Netherlands

From 

Lisbon, Portugal

Looks like the UK isnt the only country that gets other  EU countries ex colonials.

 

Whod like to bet that shes actually Angolan?

You're a single mother with three children aged eight to 11. You hit rock-bottom financially and think what now? My children and I sometimes had to go to bed without food

Go back to Lisbon then.

 

 

[Castlevania 1,712]

4 minutes ago, One percent said:

Because they are Dutch. Oh, wait, I shouldn’t say that should I. 

Racist!  Given the number of people who’ve migrated to the Netherlands I would have expected it to well be a little less Northern European.

Edited January 15 by Castlevania

[Castlevania 1,712]

This sort of heavy handed approach, probably explains why so many “Dutch” people move to the U.K. once they get their papers.

[whitevanman 8,315]

1 minute ago, Castlevania said:

Why’s everyone white?

 

Blue dress, flowery dress, purply dress, high boots. Yellow granny and manjaw can make the tea.

[stop_the_craziness 3,327]

1 minute ago, whitevanman said:

Blue dress, flowery dress, purply dress, high boots. Yellow granny and manjaw can make the tea.

I shouldn't ever find these posts funny but I do.  Every time.  I actually bothered to scroll down so I could match the descriptions to the original picture it made me laugh so much.

[spygirl 30,991]

Iys appears to be a scam where parents were putting kids into scam childcare then claiming back the costs.

The Dutch are being accused of 'ethnic profiling' Its not, the crime appears to be rampant among all the migrants and Euers.

 

After Eindhoven earlier this year, more than a hundred households with young children in the Rotterdam region now appear to have run into serious financial problems due to the wrongful reclaiming of childcare allowance.

Trouw and RTL Nieuws published last weekend about an internal guideline from the Tax Authorities, which is also in the hands of NRC . The guideline deals with the question of whether there is intent or fault on the part of parents in incorrectly applying for childcare allowance, whereby it is noted that parents are not responsible in the case of fraudulent childcare.

In practice, however, the tax authorities do not appear to take the directive into account. Nazmiye Karaduman, who placed two of her children at childcare center 't Voortvarend Scheepje in Rotterdam, finds the attitude of the tax authorities confusing and frustrating. "When I asked the tax authorities what the problem was, they were very friendly at first," says Karaduman. "But as soon as they look up my social security number in the system, they don't answer anymore and they suddenly can't help me."

At the beginning of 2019, RTL Nieuws and Trouw reported on the controversial approach of the Combiteam Approach Facilitators (CAF), a special tax team, at the Eindhoven childcare agency Dadim. This was followed by publications about alleged ethnic profiling by the service and the actions of the CAF team at other childminder agencies, whereby allowances were wrongly reclaimed.

The new cases in Rotterdam show that, in addition to childminder agencies, childcare centers are also involved in the problems. The Donner Commission report on the affair - due this month - was delayed due to the recent ruling by the Council of State.

Karaduman built up nearly 30,000 euros in debt through subsidy fraud at childcare. In vain she lodged an objection to the chargebacks for years, but with the tax authorities, in practice, the parent always pays in the case of childcare allowance. Even if they are the victims of fraudulent childcare centers.

In recent months, NRC spoke with various parents and employees of two childcare centers in the Rotterdam region. The director of one shelter - De Parel in Capelle aan de IJssel - was convicted of childcare fraud. At the other shelter - 't Voortvarend Scheepje in Rotterdam - the FIOD raided for alleged tax fraud and the parents also filed a complaint against the management for benefit fraud.

Trust relationship

Nazmiye Karaduman's story begins in 2008, when she is looking for shelter for her two children. She works, just like her husband, and needs flexible care. One that is still open late, so that overtime is not a problem, and where the children can unexpectedly go for an extra day if necessary.

Shelter 't Voortvarend Scheepje offers all this and a friendly local resident introduces Karaduman to the director. It clicks immediately.

More than five years later, Karaduman still calls her a warm woman: "I still find it difficult to imagine that she has deliberately committed fraud." Karaduman has always trusted her: “Yes, also with my DigiD. We knew her and she promised she would take care of everything for us. ”

At 't Voortvarend Scheepje it was therefore about flexible childcare, with childcare taking care of everything for the parents. Parents could choose to give up their DigiD. The parents who did not trust this were allowed to log in to the computer themselves. It turned out that a shadow window was used that saved the login details. The director of 't Voortvarend Scheepje came across as the lifesaver on whom parents trusted blindly. She was aware of home situations and personal issues, and was always there to lend a helping hand.

Also read:Gloomy and broke due to mistakes with childcare allowance

The owners also created a strong bond of trust with the parents at De Parel daycare. There was close cooperation with primary schools and the management of the Parel was able to convince an employee of a neighboring primary school to come and work at the childcare. "As a familiar face, I did not mind giving the shelter a helping hand in setting it up," says Willeke Ravenna, an employee at De Parel who would eventually become a whistleblower in this case. "What worried me was that it later turned out that I had been used to facilitate the fraud of the owners."

In Rotterdam, it was often about parents in vulnerable situations, says Gjalt Jellesma, chairman of the interest group for parents Boink. Low-income parents who are heavily dependent on benefits. Some parents did not speak the Dutch language, or they were young mothers who study full-time, or single parents who work long hours to make ends meet. What the duped parents have in common is that they cannot cope with the complicated systems of the tax authorities. And that they are highly dependent on childcare and do not quickly question the actions of that particular childcare.

'She manipulated you'

It was the same with Karaduman. At first she only brought her children to 't Voortvarend Scheepje, but when the director asked if she wanted to work for her, Karaduman started working as a teacher in 2009. Only then did things start to notice her: “She manipulated parents. If they wanted to send their children to daycare less often, or even take them off, she would get angry. She came up with a list of everything she had ever done for you and put pressure on you until you saw it. ”

And so Karaduman's children also stayed on 't Voortvarend Scheepje, until she received a letter from the tax authorities: whether she wanted to repay thousands of euros in wrongly received benefits for 2011. She had just given birth to her youngest son and the director of the shelter had even paid a maternity visit. But when the Tax Authorities knocked on the door, it became clear that they could and did not want to mean anything for Karaduman: "I had to save myself."

Fraudulent Rotterdam childcare center copied login data DigiD from parents

“I hired a lawyer who did her best for me, but there was little we could do. We lost almost every case against the Tax and Customs Administration because, according to them, I could not prove that I was a victim. ”

Parents of 't Voortvarend schipje did not receive any receipts for the parental contribution paid and, apart from a general annual overview, did not receive any invoices. In addition, the personal contribution was sometimes paid in cash at the request of the childcare. Because the allowances were paid directly to the bank account of the childcare, parents did not look into this.

Last Wednesday, the Council of State issued a groundbreaking ruling in a procedure about the wrongful reclaiming of childcare allowance. The Board ruled in favor of the mother and ruled that the Tax and Customs Administration could also recover wrongly paid allowances from a third party in the event of fraud, for example from the shelter itself. With this, the Council recognized for the first time that the tough approach of the Tax and Customs Administration is problematic and thus breaks with its previous jurisprudence.

Directive ignored

But however groundbreaking the ruling may be, it would - at least in part - not have been necessary if the tax authorities had previously simply adhered to its internal guidelines, and had not recovered the benefits from duped parents of fraudulent reception centers.

“In the past, there have been a number of fraudulent reception agencies where we do not blame the customer for not paying their own contribution,” according to an internal guideline from the tax authorities from 2015. The guideline, a framework about intent and gross debt, supervises the reclaiming of benefits paid incorrectly from parents.

In addition to the clear rules for set-up, the guideline is also clear about something else: parents must not be the victim of fraud by the child-minding. And besides, as has been emphasized several times, the guideline is not a hard policy: every case should be viewed and assessed separately from the other.

Nevertheless, De Parel's parents were labeled intent or gross negligence by the tax authorities and still receive chargebacks. Two or three parents were able to make a payment arrangement with the tax authorities, the other parents were rejected or received no answer.

The number of parents who have paid off the debt can be counted on one hand. Whistleblower Willeke Ravenna and Jaap Spigt, former lawyer of De Parel, contacted the then director-general of the Tax and Customs Administration Peter Veld. But although it was a constructive conversation, according to Ravenna and Spigt, this led to nothing and Veld left the service shortly afterwards.

Still, most recoveries go ahead, although the parents have filed several objections and indicated that they are victims of fraud. And despite a criminal conviction by the management of De Parel and a court decision that explicitly identifies parents as victims in the judgment.

Paying a personal contribution is a condition for entitlement to childcare allowance, the guideline states. No personal contribution almost always means intent or gross negligence, because that is how the service argues: the citizen is expected to know the law.

As with 't Voortvarend Scheepje, no - or no full - personal contribution was charged for the Pearl. Only condition? The allowances must be paid directly to the childcare account.

Political fuss

Because the fraudulent reception centers had access to the DigiDs of parents, the number of childcare hours could be changed behind the scenes. Children were registered for more hours than they were actually cared for, or parents had to purchase fixed packages with a higher number of hours than their child actually went to childcare under the guise of 'flexibility'.

And because parents did not pay a personal contribution - a percentage of the total amount -, did not receive any invoices and the money was paid directly by the tax authorities to the childcare, the fraud went unnoticed.

In the past year, the position of the Tax Authorities in the so-called CAF procedures - the cases of the controversial anti-fraud team at a childminder agency in Eindhoven - was frequently in the news. But the fuss about CAF is not the first time that the problems have been raised with the tax authorities. In recent years, the issue has been repeatedly brought to the attention of MPs and the National Ombudsman. Nothing changed in the practice of the tax authorities; recoveries continued.

Some of the parents suffer from physical or mental complaints due to stress. A father of De Parel suffered a heart attack. Parents were faced with the dilemma: no child-minding and therefore fewer opportunities to work.

On the other hand, not working also means a lack of money to pay for the chargebacks. Families were almost evicted, young mothers had to drop out of their studies.

For the duped parents, this felt like double betrayal, says Willeke Ravenna. "On the one hand you fight against a fraudster, on the other hand against a government agency that makes mistakes."

 

[MrLibertyRedux 6,076]

And the scam revolves around digital ID's. Whoda thunk it.

[Caravan Monster 4,982]

7 minutes ago, Stuey said:

This ties in to the fact that they have something on everyone, and when they want you gone that's it.

A pretty credible report I've seen says that Boris was given the option of an unsabotaged Brexit so long as he went along with Convid 1984.

I've not looked properly into the Italy goings on but Belarus were hit because they refused lockdown and $1bn from the IMF.

 

It looks increasingly like the lockdowns were largely political, mostly directed at removing Trump. The most mental hardcore lockdown US democrat mayors and governors are already starting to roll it back. Saw a headline that Alberta which iirc has police enforcing night time curfew 'to prevent covid', insane authoritarianism even by Trudeau standards, has just announced they're ending lockdown. Let's hope the UK lockdown pretence will also soon come to an end.

The Danish government seem weak and very swayed by public opinion, they repealed some covid nonsense a few weeks back because a few hundred protesters stayed outside their parliament for a few days.

[Yadda yadda yadda 3,019]

Is it dodgy childcare companies pocketing the money, the parents or are they splitting it?

[Anglepoise 2,625]

1 hour ago, Castlevania said:

Why’s everyone white?

 

Which one's Geert Wilders?

[spygirl 30,991]

23 minutes ago, Yadda yadda yadda said:

Is it dodgy childcare companies pocketing the money, the parents or are they splitting it?

I'd font know anything about this but I'd guess dodgy childcare pitching care to migrant parents who csnt speak Dutch - fuckall do - knowing they wont understand the rules.

Parent claims back cost.

There'll be some kickback, to get parents to choose childcare.

 

 

[dgul 20,966]

They've broken universal welfare Europe wide through their attempts to solve worldwide poverty by allowing a tiny minority of them to migrate into the EU.

[Is that Princess Nut Nut in the purple dress?]

[Austin Allegro 20,873]

1 hour ago, stop_the_craziness said:

I shouldn't ever find these posts funny but I do.  Every time.  I actually bothered to scroll down so I could match the descriptions to the original picture it made me laugh so much.

I  must admit the one in the stripey purple top and black boots caught my eye instantly before I even focused on anybody else.

[Great Guy 13,644]

So I assume the story is basically:

Migrants from corrupt shithole countries start to turn Europe into a corrupt shithole as well (just with worse weather). Some white people expect migrants to follow the same societal norms as everyone else and do something about corrupt migrants. Then another group of white people think it unreasonable for corrupt migrants to follow the rules and resign in disgust.

There must be many every day Dutch people thinking "what the fuck?". It's more or less impossible to believe third world immigration has  benefitted Europe in any real way.

The fucked up thing is that next week the BBC will have some article about white privilege. How about an article on brown privilege? It seems to be brown people that get away with fraud because they have brown skin.

[SNACR 7,742]

Just when you think bennies obsessed oddballs might be running out of material they expand internationally.

Thanks Internet.

[Great Guy 13,644]

1 hour ago, SNACR said:

Just when you think bennies obsessed oddballs might be running out of material they expand internationally.

Thanks Internet.

The Dutch Government resigning is fairly major news... especially when the reason given is that they feel guilty 

[Great Guy 13,644]

1 hour ago, SNACR said:

Just when you think bennies obsessed oddballs might be running out of material they expand internationally.

Thanks Internet.

The Dutch Government resigning is major news... especially when the reason given is that they feel guilty for expecting immigrants to not commit fraud....

Is that not worthy of discussion?

Maybe if you dont like what is discussed here you should look at other forums? 

Sometimes I think dosbods is an echo chamber and we need contrarian viewpoints. However, time after time, the few people that offer a contrarian viewpoint express thoughts and ideas that quite frankly aren't worth reading...

[the gardener 6,817]

 

There is a saying, "You cannot cheat an honest man."  This applies here.  Those parents knew damn well that they were bending the rules.  They went along with it because the agencies told them not to worry about making a contribution as they would handle it all, just give me your DigiID etc.  The parents were pleased since they were getting something free.  The agency probably told them that they'd adjust the hours etc to enable them to not have to charge the parents and for the parents not to worry about not getting statements / ignore the hours being put down etc - it's all ok, we do it that way to make it free for you.  The parents were cheating the system and they knew it.  As I understand it they are being chased for their contribution which they would have had to have made to get the free childcare funding.  They aren't being chased for the entire amount.

An honest man/woman would have smelt a rat and not gone along with it.  Those parents smelt a rat but didn't give a fuck.  Fair enough.  I'm not claiming to be a saint so I might have done the same myself.  Difference is, I wouldn't moan and bitch about it if I got caught.

 

 

Edited January 16 by the gardener

[Bedrag Justesen 26,914]

#2, #5, maybe #12.

[SNACR 7,742]

12 hours ago, spygirl said:

I'd font know anything about this but I'd guess dodgy childcare pitching care to migrant parents who csnt speak Dutch - fuckall do - knowing they wont understand the rules.

Parent claims back cost.

There'll be some kickback, to get parents to choose childcare.

 

 

This has never held you back previously.

Are you ill? I’ve heard occasional discussion there’s something going round at the moment.