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10 minutes ago, eta-carinae said:

Not watching it. Is this the "new" diversity of opinion BBC that is going to rescue the corporation?

I don't know. I've watched it in the past with religious nutters on. 

We've moved on to moan about university students now.

 

 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

The big question. Excluding crew about 8…?

Has several people in the studio.

Why?

 

I mentioned in the football thread yesterday Darlington travelling to Yeovil to play an FA Trophy tie. It's funny what's regarded as OK.

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1 hour ago, sarahbell said:

That was my starting point. They don't have to travel to the studio and mix with so many people.

So-called workers and other journalists were designated key / essential (whatever designation is) workers. The linked article I’m sure was headed can you catch coronavirus from a jogger. Seems to have changed but a whole article on what could be one or two sentences.

Edit anyway it’s endless churning out articles like this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-55680305

Edited by Ash4781b
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1 hour ago, Ash4781b said:

So-called workers and other journalists were designated key / essential (whatever designation is) workers. The linked article I’m sure was headed can you catch coronavirus from a jogger. Seems to have changed but a whole article on what could be one or two sentences.

Edit anyway it’s endless churning out articles like this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-55680305

The trouble with that sort of article is that it encourages people to 'choose what risks they're worrying about' (even though it looks like 'don't worry' it actually isn't that at all).

So you end up with a crazy situation where vulnerable sorts happily go shopping a few times a week because they're wearing face-masks (20% of their risk, say) and see the grandchildren because they're in their 'bubble' (80% of the risk), but then moan about the joggers running past them when they're out on their walk (0.0001% of their risk).

Beyond that, I might be persuaded to think that asymptomatic transmission exists (I don't think it exists), but there's a difference in 'asymptomatic viral shedder' between 'I feel fine watching TV' and 'I feel fine and I've just run a 20 minute 5k' -- I'd say that anyone viral-shedding will feel 'definitely not fine' if they attempt vigorous exercise.

Edited by dgul
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40 minutes ago, dgul said:

The trouble with that sort of article is that it encourages people to 'choose what risks they're worrying about' (even though it looks like 'don't worry' it actually isn't that at all).

So you end up with a crazy situation where vulnerable sorts happily go shopping a few times a week because they're wearing face-masks (20% of their risk, say) and see the grandchildren because they're in their 'bubble' (80% of the risk), but then moan about the joggers running past them when they're out on their walk (0.0001% of their risk).

Beyond that, I might be persuaded to think that asymptomatic transmission exists (I don't think it exists), but there's a difference in 'asymptomatic viral shedder' between 'I feel fine watching TV' and 'I feel fine and I've just run a 20 minute 5k' -- I'd say that anyone viral-shedding will feel 'definitely not fine' if they attempt vigorous exercise.

Wear a mask, with it pulled down below their nose appears to be popular with the over 75.

One my regular Tesco has moved from 'Please wear a mask' to 'No mask. No entry' and a guard 2m in from the door.

Saw some with I'm special badge without a mask. That's rare. Everyone bar Balkan types wear masks.

The badge woman was fat. 

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9156849/Lord-Sumption-tells-Stage-4-cancer-sufferer-life-valuable-others.html

Lord Sumption, who argues that vulnerable people should be able to isolate if they want while leaving the rest of the population to continue without lockdown, said: 'All lives are not of equal value - the older you are, the less valuable yours is because there's less of it left.' 

Ms James, who hosts the BBC's You, Me And The Big C podcast, has had 17 tumours in her lifetime and had her latest cancer operation just six weeks ago. 

She told Lord Sumption: 'With all due respect I'm the person who you say their life is not valuable, I live with metastatic bowel cancer.'  

Hes right;shes wrong.

You have to take life expectancy into account  - a 20yo is far more valuable than an 85yo. Most 85yo would agree.

In the UK, like the rest of the developed world that dont have liberal fire arm laws, once you get past 3, you are likely to die old.

The poor woman, who's case is sad, is exceptional being young and not having a great outlook.

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Now Lord Sumption doubles down and says NHS doctors should choose to save a 25-year-old over Captain Tom because they would have a 'greater quality of years ahead of them' - after saying 4 bowel cancer sufferer's life was 'less valuable' 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9159119/Lord-Sumption-suggests-NHS-doctors-choose-save-25-year-old-Captain-Tom.html

We should rain the blood and harvest the organs of the young to keep Capt Tom alive.

 

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12 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Now Lord Sumption doubles down and says NHS doctors should choose to save a 25-year-old over Captain Tom because they would have a 'greater quality of years ahead of them' - after saying 4 bowel cancer sufferer's life was 'less valuable' 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9159119/Lord-Sumption-suggests-NHS-doctors-choose-save-25-year-old-Captain-Tom.html

We should rain the blood and harvest the organs of the young to keep Capt Tom alive.

 

 

Are they likely to survive the treatment we can offer AND have a good quality of life afterwards? 
How many years life are they likely to have?

The question that is usually the one people don't like to shout about is: how expensive is the treatment.
But that's the decision process NICE go through to decide whether or not we can use expensive and often not life giving treatments.


 

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19 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

 

Are they likely to survive the treatment we can offer AND have a good quality of life afterwards? 
How many years life are they likely to have?

The question that is usually the one people don't like to shout about is: how expensive is the treatment.
But that's the decision process NICE go through to decide whether or not we can use expensive and often not life giving treatments.


 

You mean:

One-in-eight 'recovered' Covid patients 'DIE within 140 days': Study finds devastating toll on people who were hospitalised - with a THIRD readmitted within weeks

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9157893/Covid-UK-One-eight-recovered-Covid-patients-DIE-140-days.html

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2 hours ago, spygirl said:

You mean:

One-in-eight 'recovered' Covid patients 'DIE within 140 days': Study finds devastating toll on people who were hospitalised - with a THIRD readmitted within weeks

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9157893/Covid-UK-One-eight-recovered-Covid-patients-DIE-140-days.html

That's full of terrible misuse of statistics.

Eg, 

15% or so die within 140 days.  Sure, that's a big number,  but it is dominated by the elderly.  The annual probability of death for an 80 year old is about 10%.  That gets higher year after year.  Add to that the fact that Covid seems to affect those with co-morbidities most (ie, even in the elderly group) and you might well get a decent proportion (maybe all) of that 15% just by chance.

Sure, the medic gives some examples (he's particularly concerned about diabetes, being a specialist in diabetes...), but that's not 'science', just opinion (even if informed-opinion).  [Frankly, I'd be very worried about the impact of anti-virals on the function of lots of stuff in that part of the body]

Then there's the terrible statistic they found that:

Quote

It found death rates were 14 times higher among under-70s with coronavirus (86.2 per 1,000 person-years), compared to those without (6.1). Readmission rates were also four times higher (556.6 vs 127.0).  Under-70s were affected by lung, heart, kidney and liver problems, and new cases of diabetes, weeks or even months after they had recovered from Covid-19.

We know that Covid strikes mainly those under 70 with other morbidities, including obesity (->diabetes) and autoimmune diseases.  Yet they compare their death and discharge statistics with the normal (not morbid) population.

I'm not surprised that this hasn't been peer reviewed -- in its current state it surely wouldn't pass any reviewer worth their salt.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 18/01/2021 at 12:34, spygirl said:

Now Lord Sumption doubles down and says NHS doctors should choose to save a 25-year-old over Captain Tom because they would have a 'greater quality of years ahead of them' - after saying 4 bowel cancer sufferer's life was 'less valuable' 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9159119/Lord-Sumption-suggests-NHS-doctors-choose-save-25-year-old-Captain-Tom.html

We should rain the blood and harvest the organs of the young to keep Capt Tom alive.

 

Might have to, Captain Tom's got Covid..line the young up for harvesting.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/captain-tom-moore

Edited by crashmonitor
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18 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

Might have to, Captain Tom's got Covid..line the young up for harvesting.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/captain-tom-moore

Captain Tom has stated publicly that if he is gravely ill he doesn’t want resuscitated and he doesn’t want to end up in needing constant care. FFS he’s 100 and seems sensible. If he carks it prepare for the press to bombard the population with stories about him.

 

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17 minutes ago, Van Lady said:

Captain Tom has stated publicly that if he is gravely ill he doesn’t want resuscitated and he doesn’t want to end up in needing constant care. FFS he’s 100 and seems sensible. If he carks it prepare for the press to bombard the population with stories about him.

 

It’ll be like lady Di. An absolute gift of a distraction. 

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