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JoeDavola
4 hours ago, unregistered_guest said:

Some of us have tried to steer @JoeDavola towards the churches in search of Evangelical hot totty, but he refuses to provide us with the vicarious pleasure we crave...

A few years back there was an American girl who was obviously a JW who I continually ran into near my work as she was trying to get people to stop to chat. Would sometimes meet her several times a day.

She did indeed have that wee twinkle in her eye that suggested pure filth.

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Hail the Tripod
3 hours ago, MrLibertyRedux said:

That may well be, but the lad in question, who was good looking to be honest, had his cock in pretty much anything with blood circulating all the way through six form.

Maybe there is some flexibility, or he just wasn't with the programme. The parents definitely were.

I’ve known a few JWs and they haven’t been much bothered about any potential lover’s religious belief. Nice people and not at all given to proselytising, contrary to stereotype.

There is often a JW recruitment stall on Farringdon Road near where I work. Those running it seem a bit weird.

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WorkingPoor
4 hours ago, invalid said:

 

That's a rather strong, incorrect, unfounded and ironic accusation to make.

I can tell you now, the ones I know are genuine people. They don't just talk the talk, I know because of what they have done to help me personally, with no expection of reward and no other motive than to help.

It seems to me you have a chip on your shoulder for some reason and I don't see there can be a rational debate on this, so I'm not going to engage other than this final post on this subject.

"Who loves ya baby?" :x

xD

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stokiescum
8 hours ago, Royston said:

Every time I see the groups of them out walking the streets there's always at least one of the wives that looks pure filth, even in their frumpy blouses and sensible below the knee skirts.

Will have stockings a crutch less pantys on I bet

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I went to Salt Lake City once for work and to get from my hotel to the conference centre I had to walk through a little park. I was walking back to hotel and a woman engaged me in conversation as she saw I was carrying some toys I had bought to take back for the kids. (Memo to self, don't do that as it glaringly marks you out as a tourist.)  Turns out there is a big Mormon church in the park which I had walked past and not noticed.

She said why not come in, you don't have to be religious we just do tours as it's an interesting building. I had bugger all to do so said OK.  While I was in there a freak storm came on with a bit of thunder. The tour guy was going on and on about Jesus and being saved or something, bang, crash, and suddenly it felt super creepy, especially as I was jet-lagged and in unfamiliar place. I started thinking omg what if it's all true. Legged it straight to hotel bar still clutching plastic star wars things. Never again.

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I actually enjoyed chatting to them the two times they knocked on my door.  Both time, it was two middle aged men (no fit women sadly).  I was very polite on both occasions.  The first time was for about an hour, during which I enjoyed the discussion, including pointing out where I thought their arguments were flawed.  The second time was only for about 5 minutes until one of them remembered who I was.  I recognised him immediately and remembered his name, and when he recognised me, I had a big smile on my face when I replied "Yes Clive.  I was wondering if you were going to remember me".  They then made their polite excuses and left.  They never came back.  Awww!

I could never figure out why they bothered going door to door, until I got sent this about a year ago.   It was a very interesting read, and to me, makes explains everything:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/cggxqy/an_interesting_comment_from_quora_as_to_why/

 

Why do people get angry when I try to share the word of God with them? I only do it because I care about them deeply and don’t want them to end up in hell. I feel like some people avoid me because of this. Is there any way to get through to them?

Doug Robertson, studied at University of Maine

Updated Dec 12, 2018

The entire process is not what you think it is.

It is specifically designed to be uncomfortable for the other person because it isn’t about converting them to your religion. It is about manipulating you so you can’t leave yours.

If this tactic was about converting people it would be considered a horrible failure. It recruits almost no one who isn’t already willing to join. Bake sales are more effective recruiting tools.

On the other hand, it is extremely effective at creating a deep tribal feeling among its own members.

The rejection they receive is actually more important than the few people they convert. It causes them to feel a level of discomfort around the people they attempt to talk to. These become the “others”. These uncomfortable feelings go away when they come back to their congregation, the “Tribe”.

If you take a good look at the process it becomes fairly clear. In most cases, the religious person starts out from their own group, who is encouraging and supportive. They are then sent out into the harsh world where people repeatedly reject them. Mainly because they are trained to be so annoying.

These brave witnesses then return from the cruel world to their congregation where they are treated like returning heroes. They are now safe. They bond as they share their experiences of reaching out to the godless people to bring them the truth. They share the otherness they experience.

Once again they will learn that the only place they are accepted is with the people who think as they do. It isn’t safe to leave the group. The world is your enemy, but we love you.

This is a pain reward cycle that is a common brainwashing technique. The participants become more and more reliant on the “Tribe” because they know that “others” reject them.

Mix in some ritualized chanting, possibly a bit of monotonous repetition of instructions, add a dash of fear of judgment by an unseen, but all-powerful entity who loves you if you do as you are told and you get a pretty powerful mix.

Sorry, I have absolutely no wish to participate in someones brainwashing ritual.

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unregistered_guest

What @WorkingPoor needs to realise is that Russia is something of a special case. It isn't just the Witnesses, but every single religious body from outside Russia represents a significant threat to the Orthodox Church.

Think about it. For decades the people of Russia were conditioned to do precisely what the man in authority says. Then, come the era of Glasnost; you're in an auditorium, and the man at the front says, "I want you to get up out of your seat..."

I suspect that the opposite is true in many former Eastern Bloc countries where the Communist Party was a foreign imposition on an independent population.

I'd hate to be a census taker there.

"Grandad, there's a man from the government at the door. He wants to know what religion you are."

"Tell him the government can suck on my cheesy knob!"

"Oh, I suppose I'd better put you down as Catholic then..."

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WorkingPoor
30 minutes ago, Lipid said:

I actually enjoyed chatting to them the two times they knocked on my door.  Both time, it was two middle aged men (no fit women sadly).  I was very polite on both occasions.  The first time was for about an hour, during which I enjoyed the discussion, including pointing out where I thought their arguments were flawed.  The second time was only for about 5 minutes until one of them remembered who I was.  I recognised him immediately and remembered his name, and when he recognised me, I had a big smile on my face when I replied "Yes Clive.  I was wondering if you were going to remember me".  They then made their polite excuses and left.  They never came back.  Awww!

I could never figure out why they bothered going door to door, until I got sent this about a year ago.   It was a very interesting read, and to me, makes explains everything:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/cggxqy/an_interesting_comment_from_quora_as_to_why/

 

Why do people get angry when I try to share the word of God with them? I only do it because I care about them deeply and don’t want them to end up in hell. I feel like some people avoid me because of this. Is there any way to get through to them?

Doug Robertson, studied at University of Maine

Updated Dec 12, 2018

The entire process is not what you think it is.

It is specifically designed to be uncomfortable for the other person because it isn’t about converting them to your religion. It is about manipulating you so you can’t leave yours.

If this tactic was about converting people it would be considered a horrible failure. It recruits almost no one who isn’t already willing to join. Bake sales are more effective recruiting tools.

On the other hand, it is extremely effective at creating a deep tribal feeling among its own members.

The rejection they receive is actually more important than the few people they convert. It causes them to feel a level of discomfort around the people they attempt to talk to. These become the “others”. These uncomfortable feelings go away when they come back to their congregation, the “Tribe”.

If you take a good look at the process it becomes fairly clear. In most cases, the religious person starts out from their own group, who is encouraging and supportive. They are then sent out into the harsh world where people repeatedly reject them. Mainly because they are trained to be so annoying.

These brave witnesses then return from the cruel world to their congregation where they are treated like returning heroes. They are now safe. They bond as they share their experiences of reaching out to the godless people to bring them the truth. They share the otherness they experience.

Once again they will learn that the only place they are accepted is with the people who think as they do. It isn’t safe to leave the group. The world is your enemy, but we love you.

This is a pain reward cycle that is a common brainwashing technique. The participants become more and more reliant on the “Tribe” because they know that “others” reject them.

Mix in some ritualized chanting, possibly a bit of monotonous repetition of instructions, add a dash of fear of judgment by an unseen, but all-powerful entity who loves you if you do as you are told and you get a pretty powerful mix.

Sorry, I have absolutely no wish to participate in someones brainwashing ritual.

Sounds like the modus operandi of another well known religious extremist group.

Hence the outlawing by the Russian Federation.

Thanks for posting. One has been given an insight.

Edited by WorkingPoor
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unregistered_guest

I do wonder what a Jehovah's Witness would make of this thread, where the majority of us twisted cynics are falling over each other to point out how sincere and pleasant we have found them to be. A very different response when compared to the threads where we discuss the impact of islam on society.

As I said earlier, I love them to bits and have plenty of time for them. I've read some of their literature, but never studied with them. And there's the problem. The organisation has made many mistakes in the past which they need to be honest about.

Let's take the obvious one, as it's foundational to the rest. As @hapax legomenon has already correctly pointed out; it's the 1914 generation who are regarded as the final group of the 144,000 sealed with a heavenly hope when Jesus returned invisibly. The rest of us have an earthly hope to look forward to.

Now, the doctrine may have changed again since I last chatted with the Witnesses, but the line was that Jesus, when He returned invisibly in 1914, looked around, and that the only group who were preaching that He would return in 1914 were the Watchtower Society. And that is why they have Divine authority to claim to be the only true representatives of God's kingdom on earth.

It's a nice story.

But it doesn't fit the facts.

I've read what the Society published in 1914. And they most definitely weren't preaching that Jesus would return that year.

Therefore - if your reason for believing the Watchtower is based on the significance of 1914, you have a massive problem. And from that, the whole eschatological house of cards falls down.

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sarahbell

Back in 1991 I invited the Jehovah's in.

After an Hour they decided to leave. 

I was sharing a house with someone doing an advanced degree in comparative religion. I read everything they had so I enjoyed arguing against the existence of God. 

They never called again. 

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hapax legomenon
15 minutes ago, unregistered_guest said:

I do wonder what a Jehovah's Witness would make of this thread, where the majority of us twisted cynics are falling over each other to point out how sincere and pleasant we have found them to be. A very different response when compared to the threads where we discuss the impact of islam on society.

As I said earlier, I love them to bits and have plenty of time for them. I've read some of their literature, but never studied with them. And there's the problem. The organisation has made many mistakes in the past which they need to be honest about.

Let's take the obvious one, as it's foundational to the rest. As @hapax legomenon has already correctly pointed out; it's the 1914 generation who are regarded as the final group of the 144,000 sealed with a heavenly hope when Jesus returned invisibly. The rest of us have an earthly hope to look forward to.

Now, the doctrine may have changed again since I last chatted with the Witnesses, but the line was that Jesus, when He returned invisibly in 1914, looked around, and that the only group who were preaching that He would return in 1914 were the Watchtower Society. And that is why they have Divine authority to claim to be the only true representatives of God's kingdom on earth.

It's a nice story.

But it doesn't fit the facts.

I've read what the Society published in 1914. And they most definitely weren't preaching that Jesus would return that year.

Therefore - if your reason for believing the Watchtower is based on the significance of 1914, you have a massive problem. And from that, the whole eschatological house of cards falls down.

I think the JWs counter your argument by saying that the 'light gets brighter' and as time goes by their understanding of Gods will gets clearer. This of course allows them to shuffle to one side any of their teachings that do not make any sense, like Russels belief that the great Pyramid was part of Gods grand plan. One of the main teachings they had a problem with was their belief that some of those who were alive in 1914 would live to see Armageddon. Since this generation has now almost completely died out they had some clarity on this and claimed it meant the generation that was alive in 1914 would live to see Armageddon. Again when it looks like these will die out they now claim it is people of a similar period of time, people of the modern age, so buying themselves a good few more years.

I was brought up as a JW and whilst some are decent people I found many loved the fact they were the ones that would be saved and everyone else, unless they convert, are wicked. I suppose you could put them down as good intentioned but deluded. 

 

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Democorruptcy
12 hours ago, Royston said:

What I've genuinely never understood about Joho's, isn't it their belief that when Armageddon finally arrives there is only a limited number of places in heaven (144,000 I believe?)... so shouldn't they just be keeping it to themselves and keeping schtum about it rather than trying to recruit as many people as possible?

Was the Bitcoin inventor a Jehovah?

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unregistered_guest
8 minutes ago, hapax legomenon said:

I think the JWs counter your argument by saying that the 'light gets brighter' and as time goes by their understanding of Gods will gets clearer. This of course allows them to shuffle to one side any of their teachings that do not make any sense,

Indeed, the old Proverbs 4:18 get-out clause. Which unfortunately doesn't explain 1925 - a date more firmly fixed in the scriptures than 1914...

8 minutes ago, hapax legomenon said:

One of the main teachings they had a problem with was their belief that some of those who were alive in 1914 would live to see Armageddon. Since this generation has now almost completely died out they had some clarity on this and claimed it meant the generation that was alive in 1914 would live to see Armageddon. Again when it looks like these will die out they now claim it is people of a similar period of time, people of the modern age, so buying themselves a good few more years.

Some time back, I gather it was popular to emphasise that to be part of the 1914 generation, you had to be old enough at that time to understand the teachings. So, a baby born in 1914, or someone who was a young child then could not be counted amongst the anointed class.

I heard speculation that the official line would eventually be that some of the 1914 generation had fallen into apostasy; and that therefore, there would be a trickle of people with a heavenly hope in this and future generations.

It would then allow the Society to get back to the Biblical doctrine than "no man knows the day or the hour..." (Matthew 24:36) which all those apostate churches were preaching in 1914...

8 minutes ago, hapax legomenon said:

I was brought up as a JW and whilst some are decent people I found many loved the fact they were the ones that would be saved and everyone else, unless they convert, are wicked. I suppose you could put them down as good intentioned but deluded. 

Smugness at being amongst the elect is common to many religions. I reckon if you can't laugh at the deflating of your own virtue-signalling smugness; you're obviously in a cult. The same goes for our marxist friends too...

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4 hours ago, unregistered_guest said:

Smugness at being amongst the elect is common to many religions. I reckon if you can't laugh at the deflating of your own virtue-signalling smugness; you're obviously in a cult. The same goes for our marxist friends too...

I think there are further examples of "group smugness", not related to religion or politics.

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unregistered_guest
8 hours ago, MrPin said:

I think there are further examples of "group smugness", not related to religion or politics.

image.png.141e457714ae811bb2db2ebd2ae0fa70.png

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Frank Hovis

I've worked with several, all women, and the only reason I knew was either someone telling me or them passing on birthday cards unsigned.

The other uniting factor, which I hadn't spotted until it was pointed out, was that they were all part time.

The reason for this is that they have to put in a certain number of hours for their church each week which would be very difficult with a full time job.

There was nothing else common to them or unusual.

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Always happy to chat theology with them.

They made it out to my cottage a year back. That takes dedication!

I asked them why they weren't stopping the spread of Islam in this country, because Islam rejects the divinity of Jesus and is therefore of the devil. Weaponizing an enemy against an enemy and all that. They said they "didn't like to destroy other people's faith". Go figure!

I wish I could pretend to believe a load of shite, because a community of nice people is priceless. But I can't! :(

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unregistered_guest
1 hour ago, apples said:

I asked them why they weren't stopping the spread of Islam in this country, because Islam rejects the divinity of Jesus and is therefore of the devil.

There's a subtle irony here in that the Watchtower Society's stance on the divinity of Jesus is far closer to that held by islam than the historic Christian position. Both claim that Jesus is merely a subordinate created being, like us. And, as 'proof', both groups believe that a shadowy conspiracy changed the scriptures while nobody was looking.

And yet both will tell you, with a straight face that God is all powerful and that His words cannot be altered... 

1 hour ago, apples said:

I wish I could pretend to believe a load of shite, because a community of nice people is priceless. But I can't! :(

And, on the other side of the coin, there are people who force themselves to believe all sorts of bullshit deliberately designed to make them unhappy. It's a funny old world.

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I have worked for two small companies that were owned by Jehovah's Witnesses. They were the best people I have ever worked for, and I have fond memories and quite a few funny stories from that time to regale folk with in the pub. I would go back and work for them tomorrow if they contacted me. Wonderful people.

But I also witnessed - no pun intended - a six year old child screaming in pain because her father would not allow certain life-saving medical procedures to take place. I still get emotional about it as am writing this, so horrific was the experience. I cannot visit the RVI in Newcastle to this day without my mind regurgitating the sheer horror of it.

The social workers manged to slowly separate him and his wife - and in the end, she gave permission. The daughter would not have lived through the night otherwise...

 

XYY

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longtomsilver
On 22/01/2021 at 05:14, honkydonkey said:

I’ve had some JWs at the door with their families and the wives are HOT! Considered attending based on that. 

We've got a JW place in a town I occasional work and a JW from another chapel came into the pub with her elderly parents, fit as fuck and being flirty with me across the bar.. I was listening but not hard enough, she asked me to go out house hunting the next day or come to her chapel somewhere in Brum - thought that wouldn't be too hard to find while not making it obvious to other members of staff what I was doing as they took the mickey out of them when they came in so didn't get or give her my number - talk about awkward. When I looked there's about a dozen JW chapels in Birmingham ffs 🤯 a love lost there 😂

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On 22/01/2021 at 10:13, MrPin said:

Worked with a few JWs. they do not discuss religion at work. Nice enough people, but I don't want to join.

Same here.   Went to school with a JW,  have customers who are JW and once had a neighbour who was a JW.   All genuinely really nice / decent people.   I find their religious beliefs baffling on many levels,   but as individuals..  can’t say a bad word about them.

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I watched this video last weekend, very interesting.

A chap I was friends with at school was a JW. He did try during one science lesson into his faith. None of us bought it. He was a nice chap, very bright. We were surprised when he left school at 16 to work at Tescos unloading lorries and not persue further education. The reasons why are explained by these two apostates.

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I've always found them pleasant enough at the door but I don't enter into any theological discussions. One memorable opening was do you blame God for all the bad things that happen to you to which I replied I don't blame God for anything which seemed to be an unexpected response.

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