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Will heavy industry ever recover in this country?


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I don't mean because of the fake virus, I mean generally. The slow and gradual decline into nothing but services-led industry (call centres) has been ongoing since Blair arrived. Is there any way back now? I am not even sure if we have enough land to re-build...

I was driving along an old haunt yesterday, and the former huge paper mills have all been knocked down and in their place is - well, no prizes for guessing.

Countries like Germany and France have reasonable 'heavy' industries left - they both still produce lots of steel for example. Anyone who has been to Germany can see it as clear as day, huge factories everywhere. It would seem that UK governments don't actually want heavy industry back here, with our industry energy costs 80% higher than Germany's:

Screenshot_2021-02-22 UK Steel - The Energy Price Scandal Report - December 2018 pdf.png

 

 

Edited by spunko
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This would happen only if housing costs fall significantly so that they are at a reasonable level comparable with those of other economies with which we are in competition. This would mean that:

We can either have industry or the City. We chose the City.

One of the best bits about the jobs I am talking about was that we undercut the manufacturer's repair and return or service-ex prices by 2/3rds. This brought in lots of lucrative business, but it also

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Bringing it back would only be half the battle as we've had at least 1, possibly 2, generations who have grown up without heavy industry and I cannot see them being persuaded to go back into it. They all want the easy desk job in a nice, heated office where the heaviest item they'll lift that day will be their coffee cup.

The only way it would work is if it coincided with a massive reduction in benefits which would force them to accept it. Neither of which I can see happening.

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8 minutes ago, TheNoSnowMan said:

Bringing it back would only be half the battle as we've had at least 1, possibly 2, generations who have grown up without heavy industry and I cannot see them being persuaded to go back into it. They all want the easy desk job in a nice, heated office where the heaviest item they'll lift that day will be their coffee cup.

The only way it would work is if it coincided with a massive reduction in benefits which would force them to accept it. Neither of which I can see happening.

Industrial jobs were always dirtier and tougher than office work. That is why in the 1960s industrial workers generally got paid more than office clerks whose job was to push a pen. That even applied when the office work was skilled and the industrial jobs were unskilled. 

Edited by Virgil Caine
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There’s a prohibitive burden of regulation in this country that will preclude a reintroduction of heavy industry. Zero net carbon heavy industry can be achieved, but not at a price customers will pay when there’s a comparable product with none of the woke on cost from elsewhere.

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Hopefully it won't recover or indeed any body try to help it recover.  

We've done our bit for the industrial revolution, here and abroad.

Let them poison themselves,the environment and their cities, and physically work themselves into an early grave with industrial asthma,white finger and miners lung out in the far east for awhile. Then it's Africa's turn to carry the can for awhile.

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I dont think its the anglo american way. Anglo american economic model is short term profit extraction, usually via rent seeking and financialization. 

 

That, said, perhaps not heavy industry, but i'd guess 3D printing would eventually mean when full automation is achieved  theree  would be no reason to keep production for western demand in Asia. Globalization went into reverse in the earty 20th century I believe and perhaps it could again.

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2 hours ago, Poseidon said:

Hopefully it won't recover or indeed any body try to help it recover.  

We've done our bit for the industrial revolution, here and abroad.

Let them poison themselves,the environment and their cities, and physically work themselves into an early grave with industrial asthma,white finger and miners lung out in the far east for awhile. Then it's Africa's turn to carry the can for awhile.

Arent we (millennials) going to be the first generation in quite a while to die younger than the one before.

But for a minority of health obsessed middle class and up ones, most are obese with a range of health issues. I dare say the non-sedentary nature of a lot of industrial jobs, once some basic dust and other  health and safety controls were instituted actually kept many healthier than the current generation of call centre agents. 

Edited by PatronizingGit
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4 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

This would happen only if housing costs fall significantly so that they are at a reasonable level comparable with those of other economies with which we are in competition.

This would mean that:

  • British workers are no longer artificially expensive owing to  their need to pay very high housing costs
  • The most profitable use of land ceases to be simply building more houses upon it

 

Bring on that crash.

It is crashing. Just not in Sterling terms. If they allowed that to happen then Sterling would crash and that ruins their only strategy - to protect Sterling at all costs.

As the Treasury told me, through my MP: "It's all under control".

Which to me clearly indicates it's not under control.

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4 minutes ago, deathfunk said:

It is crashing. Just not in Sterling terms. If they allowed that to happen then Sterling would crash and that ruins their only strategy - to protect Sterling at all costs.

As the Treasury told me, through my MP: "It's all under control".

Which to me clearly indicates it's not under control.

Why do you say that it's crashing?

Are you comparing it to something like gold or Bitcoin which are going up?

Sterling is about 1.4 against the dollar up from 1.15; sterling isn't falling off a cliff.

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4 hours ago, Virgil Caine said:

Industrial jobs were always dirtier and tougher than office work. 

To be fair though that can't still be the same can it? I bet "heavy industry" these days means a chap in a white coat who clicks on "start steel mill y/n?"

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1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

Why do you say that it's crashing?

Are you comparing it to something like gold or Bitcoin which are going up?

Sterling is about 1.4 against the dollar up from 1.15; sterling isn't falling off a cliff.

Yes, only two things now exist for me.

1. Fiat failure

2. Bitcoin

The housing market already crashed once without us plebs realising it, during the noughties when gold rallied from $250 towards $2k. Now it's crashing again against The One True Coin (fwempcoin).

If the Treasury had

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6 hours ago, whitevanman said:

We can either have industry or the City. We chose the City.

We are now in the process of the City losing trade to Amsterdam. 

The UK especially the North/ North West and Midlands are well primed for a return to industry. There is plenty of space, there is cheap labour and there are cheap houses. It is weather the London elite are willing or have the foresight to engage and make this an key economic priority. Time will tell.

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Nope there are very few left to pass on the skills required to to keep what we have left going never mind expand 

As others have stated energy costs are a major hurdle , it just so happens that the countries we would be competing with regard to heavy industry are the very same countries that own the power plants that price us out of the game ,,,,,strange that 

Edited by Long time lurking
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I think they're going to have to give it a try as the ponzi economy of selling houses to each other at constantly increasing prices can't go on for much longer.

If i was in my teens like fuck would i be wanting to do a hard days graft to the point of being exhausted so i can give my earnings to some cunt born 30 years before me in rental payments.

Sooner do the £10 an hour shite in a call centre, than get £13 an hour working in a dirty and dangerous environment.

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8 hours ago, TheNoSnowMan said:

Bringing it back would only be half the battle as we've had at least 1, possibly 2, generations who have grown up without heavy industry and I cannot see them being persuaded to go back into it.

This.

Bring it back if you want, but you won't be able to find the people, especially with what the jobs will pay.

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If it makes money, then yes.

If it requires vast subs then No.

Problem when you say heavy industry, what do you mean?

Car making? Yep, UK has mainly profitable car companies. Unlike, France, where its shit proper up by the state.

Shipbuilding? Nope. For whatever reasons building ships became a developing country dick waving exercise.

Japan, SK, then China deciding a state supported ship industry marked their arrival in the world.

Crappy small yards n stroppy unionised UK employees never stood a chance.

 

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