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Scotland - anti UK but pro EU


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2 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

iMHO the SNP thinks that Scotland will have more influence as nation within the EU than they do with the UK; which may well be true for the next ten years or so.

In the UK they have a significant number of MPs and may well hold the balance of power in Parliament.

In the UE they are too small to matter.

The days of big subsidies from the EU are likely already gone, so does membership of the EU really provide them with any power/influence/cash ? I suspect not.

In addition, if they were to join the EU then we would have  customs barriers and all manner of complexity - that would cause them no end of bother.

I can

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7 minutes ago, Bornagain said:

In the UK they have a significant number of MPs and may well hold the balance of power in Parliament.

In the UE they are too small to matter.

The days of big subsidies from the EU are likely already gone, so does membership of the EU really provide them with any power/influence/cash ? I suspect not.

In addition, if they were to join the EU then we would have  customs barriers and all manner of complexity - that would cause them no end of bother.

I can

I think Scotland come in 16th or 17th in terms of EU population size. Not that it really matters as the EU is essentially run by the Germans and French. Votes in the EU Parliament are not worth as much politically as votes at Westminster as the the former institution is essentially just there to rubber stamp the EU Commission and Council of Ministers decisions.

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Just now, Virgil Caine said:

I think Scotland come in 16th or 17th in terms of EU population size. Not that it really matters as the EU is essentially run by the Germans and French. Votes in the EU Parliament are not worth as much politically as votes at Westminster as the the former institution is essentially just there to rubber stamp the EU Commission and Council of Ministers decisions.

So why would they want to join ?

I am at a loss.

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5 minutes ago, Bornagain said:

So why would they want to join ?

I am at a loss.

IMHO the celtic nations are more inclined towards a social democratic welfare system than England. Historically they were dependent upon extractive industries like agriculture, mining etc. Industry was limited to the large cities such as Glasgow, Cardiff & Belfast. Industry was much more widely distributed in England which benefited more from the industrial revolution etc. Just my opinion.

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Deep down I reckon it's a continuation of the Auld Alliance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_Alliance

Incidentally it's interesting to see the anti-English slant that the Wikipedia editors have taken. It was about English expansionism, you see. No need to mention things like the conquest by William of Normandy (which created a territorial claim by an English king on territory in France) or the previous history of conflict with Scotland or the fact that England's governing elite at the time would have been culturally/linguistically French.

The implementation of continuing hatred is done by the indoctrination of one generation by the next. I had similar from my (Welsh Nat) father but it didn't stick. I dare say there are many in Scotland who are the same. Sadly there are many (far more so in Scotland and Ireland, I suspect) where it does.

 

 

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It's quite a political tightrope Jeanette Krankie and the rest of the SNP balloon-heads are walking here; on the one hand they appeal to liberal, sjw, Europhile globalist sympathies and on the other to petty, inward looking nationalism.

As for the reality of independence and joining the EU, it amazes me how so many north of the border think its a bolted-on certainty that the jocks would immediately join the EU if Scotland were to become independent.

I don't think the EU would actually want them; the EU has lost a big contributor in the UK and I don't believe has any great desire to counteract this by taking on any more southern EU-style economic basket cases, which Scotland would be independent of the UK.

Coupled to this is the fact Scotland has been told previously they may not be able to keep the pound on independence - so they will seek to join the euro. Another disaster the EU will be keen to avoid, with the eurozone bailouts still fresh in their tiny minds.

IMHO, the scots would be given a resounding 'fuck off' by the brussels mob as they won't have any of the family silver left for the EU to plunder.

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18 minutes ago, Jonty Willis the Third said:

It's quite a political tightrope Jeanette Krankie and the rest of the SNP balloon-heads are walking here; on the one hand they appeal to liberal, sjw, Europhile globalist sympathies and on the other to petty, inward looking nationalism.

As for the reality of independence and joining the EU, it amazes me how so many north of the border think its a bolted-on certainty that the jocks would immediately join the EU if Scotland were to become independent.

I don't think the EU would actually want them; the EU has lost a big contributor in the UK and I don't believe has any great desire to counteract this by taking on any more southern EU-style economic basket cases, which Scotland would be independent of the UK.

Coupled to this is the fact Scotland has been told previously they may not be able to keep the pound on independence - so they will seek to join the euro. Another disaster the EU will be keen to avoid, with the eurozone bailouts still fresh in their tiny minds.

IMHO, the scots would be given a resounding 'fuck off' by the brussels mob as they won't have any of the family silver left for the EU to plunder.

To join the European Union all the European states in the EU have to vote unanimously in favour of letting you in. I am not certain that the Spanish for starters would necessarily want Scotland within the EU because of their own issues with Catalonia. The vocal support of some parts of the SNP  for Catalan independence will not have been forgotten. Historically the great European powers such as the kings of France used the Scots against England when it suited them. The Auld Alliance was a very one sided affair.

Edited by Virgil Caine
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1 hour ago, Bornagain said:

I have often wondered why the SNP wants to withdraw itself from the UK, and yet it wants to be part of the much larger EU.

I assume that they have a good reason, but I am buggered if I can imagine what it might be.

Any explanation would be welcomed.

Insanity, fuck knows.

It's certainly not independence if they're wanting to join the EU, "independence" maybe. 

Edited by Carl Fimble
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5 minutes ago, Carl Fimble said:

Insanity, fuck knows.

It's certainly not independence of they're wanting to join the EU, "independence" maybe. 

It is bizarre. Initially it may have been there as a safety blanket. "If we leave the UK we will still be in the EU but with our own voice at the table". Now they're kind of stuck with the pro-EU stuff. Especially since they used the "leaving against our will" line. I expect some of the gladhanding in Brussels stroked the ego a fair bit too.

They never even had the plan of trying to do an Ireland and undercutting on tax to lure investment either. At least not overtly.

Big problem for the SNP is that by necessity they have to be a broad church. You're not going to get 50% having the same vision of independence.

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Just now, Yadda yadda yadda said:

It is bizarre. Initially it may have been there as a safety blanket. "If we leave the UK we will still be in the EU but with our own voice at the table". Now they're kind of stuck with the pro-EU stuff. Especially since they used the "leaving against our will" line. I expect some of the gladhanding in Brussels stroked the ego a fair bit too.

They never even had the plan of trying to do an Ireland and undercutting on tax to lure investment either. At least not overtly.

Big problem for the SNP is that by necessity they have to be a broad church. You're not going to get 50% having the same vision of independence.

They're just another globo-homo party, against the nation state, against the white people who live there, pro-random refugee from anywhere, and pro-poz.

I think what you wrote about them having the EU as a kind of safety blanket is probably right, it's mad that people supposedly for independence can't see that what they're pushing for wouldn't be independence. 

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6 minutes ago, TheBlueCat said:

They think the EU will subsidize them in the same way the UK does. They are wrong.

Quite.

The financial crisis in Greece showed a marked lack enthusiasm for the cross border subsidies of the type that operate between the different parts of the U.K. The big European states even less keen on long term non contributory benefits 

 

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3 minutes ago, Sucralose Ray Leonard said:

There is a very simple solution to the break up of the Union and that is to move (all) governments to YORKSHIRE.

Centre of the Universe, nevermind the United Kingdom.

 

 

I'd like to see the administrative capital moved to somewhere in the heart of Wessex like Winchester or Salisbury leaving London to its money-grubbing commerce and stabbings. 

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I voted for Independence and Brexit, simple reason really, they're all a shower of crooks and the less of them that have an input to my life the better.

It's because Maggie trialled the poll tax on Scotland, gave a lot of us the hump. Also because Boris is a white, male, buffoon, when what the world needs (apparently) is nutters like Nippy and Jacinda. The voters that actually matter would vote completely differently if it wasn't white male vs compassionate (perceived) wummin

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29 minutes ago, Yadda yadda yadda said:

Big problem for the SNP is that by necessity they have to be a broad church. You're not going to get 50% having the same vision of independence.

This is really the key issue. The SNP main political platform is to gain independence. Once that is achieved then it has lost a large part of its reason to exist. The issue would be then become an matter of what political flavour of government would Scotland want and how were the policies to be funded. At the moment the Scottish Nationalists don’t really have to face those issues as Westminster backstops everything in a way that the EU would not.

Edited by Virgil Caine
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6 minutes ago, Virgil Caine said:

This is really the key issue. The SNP main political platform is to gain independence. Once that is achieved then it has lost a large part of its reason to exist. The issue would be then become an issue of what political flavour of government would Scotland want and how were the policies to be funded. At the moment the Scottish Nationalists don’t really have to face those issues as Westminster backstops everything in a way that the EU would not.

There’s a long tradition of newly independent states descending into civil war. Once the unifying goal of independence is achieved, factionalism wins out...

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1 hour ago, Bornagain said:

So why would they want to join ?

I am at a loss.

not sure if they really do, are they just using Brexit as a lever to pull on the independence dream? they have to appear to want to re-join the EU or their entire argument collapses.

Edited by snaga
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