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Doing the bare minimum


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As a young man I liked going to work. I had a laugh with the people I worked with, and we'd often go to the pub lunchtime and after work. Lads in the office would mess about and have a laugh. I rememb

Taking @Hancock's post from the Heavy Industry thread as a leaping off point there seems to be a big sea change in this country where aspiration is falling off a cliff. This isn't restricted to o

I've felt like the Government have been on my back relentlessly for the last 20 years at least. They've been relentlessly pushing down my wages in nominal terms via the massive use of cheap labour whi

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35 minutes ago, Libspero said:

There isn’t any reason not to..   the biggest cost is land,  and land prices are dictated by planning/local councils.

 

Land prices are dictated by the market and how much it is 'worth' with planning permission and/or resale value. Councils cannot find their arse from their elbow, there is no way they could decided land pricing. I'm not sure you meant that though, perhaps you meant indirectly i.e. by granting permission they hold the keys to the land price. But this isn't true either, less than a third of planning applications for housing developments are granted by local councils. Nearly always the decision is overridden by central gov.

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2 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

Going back to the late 80s I remember a news story of an accountant who was so opposed to nuclear weapons that he would only work to the personal allowance level to avoid paying any tax that might support them.

 

Ah back in the days of easy dividends you could take absolute bare minimum and then still take 30k dividends. If him and his wife were both directors they could take a lot of money out and not pay very much tax at all. 

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18 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

 

Do you think the new Taylor Wimpey/Persimmon/Bloor housing infrastructure will last that long ?

Won't the public will interest in it and it end up just like high-rise sink estates or the rows of houses being demolished in northern cities.

Aren't people buying them now simply because i) there is no alternative, ii) the houses are new and shiny, and iii) they have never been a home owner before and don't know what they need to enjoy life? I can't see them maintaining their high initial new-build price without financial props - oh, the hole in my arguments

 

 

Not everything but I have seen some estates going up that I regard as the slums of a very close tomorrow.

They are very distinctive because from a distance their pastel hues look very attractive when new; though this lays upon badly done render that will stain and fall revealing badly done brickwork allowing damp to enter.

These are less than ten years old.  The render is already going and they're built directly onto the pavement or given a front garden serving no purpose beyond people having somewhere to throw their MacDonald's wrappers and lager cans.

Then there is the fact that they're narrower than a normal car is long so where do you park?

In another ten years these will be looking so dreadful that they will be only for desperate BTLers and equally desperate renters.  In another twenty they will be falling down.

It's not just the render; some others have a projecting part of the room and you can see the flooring on these beginning to come away.

This is a big estate up behind the council offices in Camborne if anyone knows the area but I have seen others.

Less than ten years old and look at it.

image.png.9ef38a1ded2a64df3b0984e83804edb7.png

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/83858257#/

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Isn't this a consequence of interest rates being far too low for far too long?

An economy can increase the amount and velocity of money circulating by increasing productivity, by inventing new things that have high demand, or other innovations.

Or it can be achieved by just pushing money into the economy as debt (cheap money), with a side-experiment of massively swelling the population so that there are more potential "work-units" and consumers. This appears to have been the strategy for some time.

However with the COVID lockdowns and consequent loss of business and employment and increase in national debt I'm not seeing how it continues to hold together given that at least mathematically, on paper, the strategy that has been followed must implode at some point regardless.

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2 hours ago, Hopeful said:

 

I think you have covered the reasons why I joined that club

What else could be added?

Perhaps having a personality that is earn it before you spend it so seeing others achieve on tick what you strive to achieve is demoralising.

Seeing a system where the fruits of your labours are creamed off to support people doing considerably less, often those people are either the ones doing the creaming or at least the loudest supporters of the system.

Seeing the rise of people for whom their fake status and how it is perceived by others, is their be all and end all.

 

Seeing your work destroyed by societal lockdowns cheered on by pseudo-scientific twats on the internet must be a bit dispiriting, I would have thought.

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25 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

Not everything but I have seen some estates going up that I regard as the slums of a very close tomorrow.

They are very distinctive because from a distance their pastel hues look very attractive when new; though this lays upon badly done render that will stain and fall revealing badly done brickwork allowing damp to enter.

These are less than ten years old.  The render is already going and they're built directly onto the pavement or given a front garden serving no purpose beyond people having somewhere to throw their MacDonald's wrappers and lager cans.

Then there is the fact that they're narrower than a normal car is long so where do you park?

In another ten years these will be looking so dreadful that they will be only for desperate BTLers and equally desperate renters.  In another twenty they will be falling down.

It's not just the render; some others have a projecting part of the room and you can see the flooring on these beginning to come away.

This is a big estate up behind the council offices in Camborne if anyone knows the area but I have seen others.

Less than ten years old and look at it.

image.png.9ef38a1ded2a64df3b0984e83804edb7.png

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/83858257#/

I have driven around there and can confirm. My grandparents final days spent in the park home close by. The park homes will probably better the houses in appearance for longer and they are temporary structures 😀

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They all look like signs that we're living in Keynes's prosperous society -- everyone's requirements satisfied readily so that they didn't need to work?

Clearly, different in the detail from Keynes's predictions, but accurate at the gross level -- this is just the solution that was chosen for us, whether you're WTC class or a higher earner deciding to drop the hours as there isn't any point in the slog.  The clever bit (from the POV of the TPTB) is that everyone (including those on this thread) think that they're the bright ones in working it out and taking this route.

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34 minutes ago, spunko said:

Land prices are dictated by the market ......

What is meant by a 'market'?...... there's  market just between buyers & sellers....

... then, as we have now, 'markets' between buyers sellers AND issuers of thin air credit....bankers.

This is the absolute root cause of all that's wrong today......

Often wonder what land might be worth today if money printing had been kept to 1971 levels. 

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1 minute ago, dgul said:

They all look like signs that we're living in Keynes's prosperous society -- everyone's requirements satisfied readily so that they didn't need to work?

Clearly, different in the detail from Keynes's predictions, but accurate at the gross level -- this is just the solution that was chosen for us, whether you're WTC class or a higher earner deciding to drop the hours as there isn't any point in the slog.  The clever bit (from the POV of the TPTB) is that everyone (including those on this thread) think that they're the bright ones in working it out and taking this route.

 

I don't see people working substantially less as being an aim of TPTB as they desperately want the tax revenues to support their spending; you can only print so far.

If people work less so earn less and spend less this is very bad news for their income tax, NI and VAT receipts.

Maybe it fits the dream of some academic economist but for the UK government it is bad news.

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Some great thoughts and PoVs here. It can seem a bit depressing, but once you’ve taken the red pill the veil is lifted whether one likes it or not!

I never saw myself living like this as a young man. IME, working life has just got worse and worse for the actual grafters in the last few decades. Employers expect more and more for less and less. 
 

Im actually going back to work for a previous employer next months. I was practically offered my old job back but the hassle isn’t worth it, I’m going back at a much lower level.

Everyone with eyes to see can see what’s going on, a massive race to the bottom. Passing the buck is the most valued quality in work these days. If I had kids I would be so so anxious for them. 
 

 

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5 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

I don't see people working substantially less as being an aim of TPTB as they desperately want the tax revenues to support their spending; you can only print so far.

If people work less so earn less and spend less this is very bad news for their income tax, NI and VAT receipts.

Maybe it fits the dream of some academic economist but for the UK government it is bad news.

This is rational thinking however they will just print to the moon until it implodes. They have no other choice, as most of the population wouldnt be able to survive economically and the whole system would collapse. So yes they can print as far as they like. They have paid too many people to breed using printed money for too long now, that they have trapped themselves in an infinite printing loop. 

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45 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

badly done render that will stain

Yes I see that all the time with houses built in the last 15 years or so and always wondered what the hell it was and why they looked so awful so quickly.

The other thing with newbuilds I see is that they often age badly in terms of aesthetics because they have silly 'garnishes' on them that looked trendy (or were supposed to) when they were built 10/15/20 years ago but quickly become very dated looking if that makes any sense. Kinda like how a 1980's sci fi movies 'vision of the future' looks terribly 1980's.

The great irony is that the old council houses in 'deprived' areas are often superior in every way (size, build quality, outside space) to these new builds at a fraction of the price.

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5 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Same for me. My wife and I are the only two in our close that work.

The rest are early retired government employees. 

Same thing, different shit.

You would love it where my parents live. No productive work for decades. Levels of spending that I honestly can’t get my head around. 
 

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11 minutes ago, mosstrooper said:

I live in a deprived area and it is absolutely soul crushing to look around me and realize i am one of a very small handful of people actually working. The majority of the occupants around me are basically partying every day and smoking weed etc. Its a nightmare , and i am finding it difficult to continue to have half my earnings taken in various taxes to have to sit amongst the "deprived" and watch them spunking that money from earnings on drugs, scratchies, and living it up. None of them have any idea what it is like to have to work to support a family. They get it handed on a plate. They dont actually have to do fk all ?

I used to live In Ardwick. Just off Grosvenor Street. 26th most deprived ward in England. It was a different world.

 

 

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Just now, JoeDavola said:

Same at my folks street - full of police men and council workers who retired in their 50's.

its exactly the same eveywhere in the west. The politicians know exactly how this is and how it came about, and its all due to to reckless money printing. Pandoras box has been opened with money printing it will all end in huge piles of dead bodies eventually.

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6 minutes ago, mosstrooper said:

This is rational thinking however they will just print to the moon until it implodes. They have no other choice, as most of the population wouldnt be able to survive economically and the whole system would collapse. So yes they can print as far as they like. They have paid too many people to breed using printed money for too long now, that they have trapped themselves in an infinite printing loop. 

I agree. Printing to infinity. I know that the bozos they wheel out that the sheeple think are in charge seem a bit wishy-washy. But the real entities in charge will know there is no other way until it’s time to pull the plug on it all.

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31 minutes ago, Shamus said:

I have driven around there and can confirm. My grandparents final days spent in the park home close by. The park homes will probably better the houses in appearance for longer and they are temporary structures 😀

The “temporary” prefabs built post war were superior to most modern new build houses and probably had a longer life.

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10 minutes ago, mosstrooper said:

This is rational thinking however they will just print to the moon until it implodes. They have no other choice, as most of the population wouldnt be able to survive economically and the whole system would collapse. So yes they can print as far as they like. They have paid too many people to breed using printed money for too long now, that they have trapped themselves in an infinite printing loop. 

 

They can't do this because when there becomes doubt about the debt becoming repayable then the currency plunges and all imports - energy, food - shoot up in price with concomitant huge inflation as we have seen several times through history.

This is a subject covered in the Covid thread and the measure of a nation's ability to repay debt is the debt to GDP ratio.

We have already had one example of this country having to beg for money from the IMF and having austerity imposed as a condition.

Keep printing and we hit Weimar Republic inflation levels and we have to beg from the IMF.

In normal times countries would be expected to start reducing this ratio, which can be through economic growth rather than debt repayment.  However we have already been going higher following 2008's bail-outs.

Long term:

uk-debt-gdp.png

Recent years:

UK-debt-GDP.jpg

And now 97.9%.

It can go higher.  It cannot however go "to the moon".

 

https://julianhjessop.com/2021/02/20/a-quickie-on-the-uk-debt-to-gdp-ratio/

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27 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I don't see people working substantially less as being an aim of TPTB as they desperately want the tax revenues to support their spending; you can only print so far.

But Klaus says that by 2030 you will own nothing and you will be happy.

So Occams Razor says why work if you end up with nothing to show for it other than rented shite.

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7 minutes ago, Virgil Caine said:

The “temporary” prefabs built post war were superior to most modern new build houses and probably had a longer life.

I've mentioned that I know of at least two still lived in in Plymouth and looking perfectly ok.

1 minute ago, Chewing Grass said:

But Klaus says that by 2030 you will own nothing and you will be happy.

So Occams Razor says why work if you end up with nothing to show for it other than rented shite.

Is this the "Great Reset" bloke?

I don't agree with any of that; this is wishful thinking on his part IMO.

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27 minutes ago, mosstrooper said:

I live in a deprived area and it is absolutely soul crushing to look around me and realize i am one of a very small handful of people actually working. The majority of the occupants around me are basically partying every day and smoking weed etc. Its a nightmare , and i am finding it difficult to continue to have half my earnings taken in various taxes to have to sit amongst the "deprived" and watch them spunking that money from earnings on drugs, scratchies, and living it up. None of them have any idea what it is like to have to work to support a family. They get it handed on a plate. They dont actually have to do fk all ?

I was called a snob has I went to work 3/4 years ago.things have improved more must be working has more houses have 2 cars .last summer was not so funny has every other person on Facebook was posting pics of them siting in the garden drinking all day with there feet in a paddling pool

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