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Rental nightmare in coastal Cornwall (and coastal Devon, IoW)


Frank Hovis
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HousePriceMania

Bit of an anecdote for you.
 

Was speaking to a group of 50 somethings last week from Cornwall and they were telling me about the cornosh housing market.

They told me LLs have been selling up to idiot Londoners for double the prices from a year ago and kicking out their tennents.

There are now rows or cars/vans parked up with young people living in they because:

a) There's nothing to rent

b) Even if there was something to rent they'd not be able to afford it.

 

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Wight Flight
1 hour ago, HousePriceMania said:

a) There's nothing to rent

That's the real problem for many.

I have booked hotels for August and September to hedge against the problem.

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Frank Hovis
15 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

That's the real problem for many.

I have booked hotels for August and September to hedge against the problem.

 

And you are one of the few who can afford to do that.

Councils have very much recognised how dire is the situation for renters but they lack the powers to do anything about it; despite in Cornwall's case for one requesting them last year.

These are local problems which need local solutions.

I think Westminster will only sit up and take notice if people become sufficiently angry to start burning down second homes and holiday lets as happened in Wales in the 1980s.

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Wight Flight
43 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

And you are one of the few who can afford to do that.

Councils have very much recognised how dire is the situation for renters but they lack the powers to do anything about it; despite in Cornwall's case for one requesting them last year.

These are local problems which need local solutions.

I think Westminster will only sit up and take notice if people become sufficiently angry to start burning down second homes and holiday lets as happened in Wales in the 1980s.

The issue is one of timing. My lease expires at the end of July. I am hearing anecdotally that it is taking people 3 months and up to 30 applications to get somewhere. My options are to start looking in April, and maybe end up with two homes for May, June and July, or wait until June to start applying but at the risk of not getting anywhere by August.

Booking a refundable hotel for two months gives me the flexibility to delay the deadline, and may even work out cheaper than having two places.

I think the only time I have felt secure was when the landlord had to give six months notice and we only had to give one. That gave us the flexibility to find somewhere without a significant overlap.

 

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With a crooked smile
55 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Councils have very much recognised how dire is the situation

Debate about the effect of holiday let's on housing in Parliament tomorrow https://keswickreminder.co.uk/2022/01/05/cumbrian-mp-to-lead-westminster-debate-about-housing-crisis-in-lake-district-sparked-by-holiday-lets/

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45 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

Sadly its Tim Farron.

The issue with FHL and not paying any tax is started to be noticed - 

https://www.thisisthecoast.co.uk/news/local-news/mp-speaks-to-chancellor-about-yorkshire-coast-holiday-home-issue/

Scarborough and Whitby MP Robert Goodwill has made Rishi Sunak aware of problems around Council Tax and Business Rates.

The number of holiday homes on the Yorkshire Coast which are not paying either council tax or business rates is a problem.

That's according to Scarborough and Whitby MP Robert Goodwill.

He says some properties have been registered as businesses so don't pay council tax, but at the same time fall below the income threshold for business rates.

 

This was due to be sorted out before covid hit. Wish it was.

They either need to remove FHL from SBRR and give the rates to the LA.

Or tax them at 2x local Ctax and remove all the business allowances.

They are going to do something.

As it stands, FHL pay fuck all tax.

The few places where FHL are an issue, they are a huge fucking issues.

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Sadly its Tim Farron.

The issue with FHL and not paying any tax is started to be noticed - 

https://www.thisisthecoast.co.uk/news/local-news/mp-speaks-to-chancellor-about-yorkshire-coast-holiday-home-issue/

Scarborough and Whitby MP Robert Goodwill has made Rishi Sunak aware of problems around Council Tax and Business Rates.

The number of holiday homes on the Yorkshire Coast which are not paying either council tax or business rates is a problem.

That's according to Scarborough and Whitby MP Robert Goodwill.

He says some properties have been registered as businesses so don't pay council tax, but at the same time fall below the income threshold for business rates.

 

This was due to be sorted out before covid hit. Wish it was.

They either need to remove FHL from SBRR and give the rates to the LA.

Or tax them at 2x local Ctax and remove all the business allowances.

They are going to do something.

As it stands, FHL pay fuck all tax.

The few places where FHL are an issue, they are a huge fucking issues.

 

 

 

So dig up the email for his office and send him that fact - the more evidence and reasons he has especially on issues like that the better. 

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1 minute ago, eek said:

So dig up the email for his office and send him that fact - the more evidence and reasons he has especially on issues like that the better. 

Oh ive whigned to him bother.

And so are most of his contiuents - most FHL are owned out of the county.

The council are  having a right go. The ammount of revenue they are losing - ctax plus ~6k public sector spend per head is enormous.

 

 

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One percent
38 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Sadly its Tim Farron.

The issue with FHL and not paying any tax is started to be noticed - 

https://www.thisisthecoast.co.uk/news/local-news/mp-speaks-to-chancellor-about-yorkshire-coast-holiday-home-issue/

Scarborough and Whitby MP Robert Goodwill has made Rishi Sunak aware of problems around Council Tax and Business Rates.

The number of holiday homes on the Yorkshire Coast which are not paying either council tax or business rates is a problem.

That's according to Scarborough and Whitby MP Robert Goodwill.

He says some properties have been registered as businesses so don't pay council tax, but at the same time fall below the income threshold for business rates.

 

This was due to be sorted out before covid hit. Wish it was.

They either need to remove FHL from SBRR and give the rates to the LA.

Or tax them at 2x local Ctax and remove all the business allowances.

They are going to do something.

As it stands, FHL pay fuck all tax.

The few places where FHL are an issue, they are a huge fucking issues.

 

 

 

They also need to stop new builds being used as holiday lets. Loads of estates being built round me and the argument is that local people needs homes. However, the reality is that over 70 percent is being bought as second homes and then appearing on farcebook as a holiday let.  

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19 minutes ago, One percent said:

They also need to stop new builds being used as holiday lets. Loads of estates being built round me and the argument is that local people needs homes. However, the reality is that over 70 percent is being bought as second homes and then appearing on farcebook as a holiday let.  

Not really.

They just need to tax FHL - put business rates on.

Poof! ~50% will sellup.

 

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One percent
3 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Not really.

They just need to tax FHL - put business rates on.

Poof! ~50% will sellup.

 

Well they need to do something to reflect the true cost of holiday lets. 

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sarahbell
3 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

And you are one of the few who can afford to do that.

Councils have very much recognised how dire is the situation for renters but they lack the powers to do anything about it; despite in Cornwall's case for one requesting them last year.

These are local problems which need local solutions.

I think Westminster will only sit up and take notice if people become sufficiently angry to start burning down second homes and holiday lets as happened in Wales in the 1980s.

They can make local housing plans.

Local houses for local people, or low paid people who maintain the little economy they have.
Lake District have some sort of scheme. I suspect mostly useless though.

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Frank Hovis
8 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

They can make local housing plans.

Local houses for local people, or low paid people who maintain the little economy they have.
Lake District have some sort of scheme. I suspect mostly useless though.

There have been a few down here and they worked ok up to last year when planning decided to ignore them.

I don't blame the council planners because time after time they object and lose on appeal so they have mostly given up.

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27 minutes ago, One percent said:

Well they need to do something to reflect the true cost of holiday lets. 

Yup.

A 3br house occupied by mam dad + 2 kids pays 2k ctax +  gets ~ 4 x 6k of public service spends

A FHL pays 0 ctax or busi rates. No public funding but still gets loads of people in getting pissed/hopsital/police/rubbish, using public services.

Again, UK tourism = a means to destroy a local area.

 

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sarahbell
3 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

There have been a few down here and they worked ok up to last year when planning decided to ignore them.

I don't blame the council planners because time after time they object and lose on appeal so they have mostly given up.

Yeah Oldham says the appeals are expensive so just allow whatever. It's fucking insane.

local planning for local people to make a sustainable local environment.

In most areas that'd involve dropping a H bomb.

 

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With a crooked smile
25 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

don't blame the council planners because time after time they object and lose on appeal so they have mostly given up.

Keswick Town Council have a policy of objecting to all change of use to holiday let. This only comes up when someone is trying to change from say commercial property eg b&b to holiday let you don't generally need permission to change from residental to holiday let. 

The thing is tho they get over ruled by planners because this isn't against planning law. 

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With a crooked smile
2 hours ago, UmBongo said:

Have many council homes been built in these areas in the last decade or so? 

Prob not many but new builds and where change of use is given typically have some sort of 'local occupancy' clause. It was relaxed a bit with a change this year, I applied for change of use to residential when buying a b&b this year. I got the typical new clause. Anyone can live in it regardless of where they are from or how long they have lived in the area but it must be occupied for at least 6 months a year and it must be a person's primary home. It explicitly cannot be a holiday home or used for tourists. 

Clauses have changed over the years but prior to this someone typically needed to have lived in a specific geographical area for 3 years (sometimes Cumbria sometimes the NP sometimes even a specific ward). 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Heard this being mangled on radio.

Wails mangled it too

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10405635/Airbnb-landlords-rural-areas-need-licence-offer-homes-short-term-holiday-lets.html

Airbnb owners in rural communities may need to acquire a licence to offer their homes as short-term holiday lets due to fears locals are being driven out due to a lack of rental properties.

A proposal being considered by ministers could force second homeowners to gain consent from their local council to manage short-term holiday lets.

The plan follows Tory MPs in popular coastal spots including Cornwall, Devon and the Isle of Wight raising concerns over the booming industry leading to a lack of affordable housing in their area

Hardly surprising as the idot gove mangles it -

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove-closes-tax-loophole-on-second-homes

Currently, owners of second homes in England can avoid paying council tax and access small business rates relief by simply declaring an intention to let the property out to holidaymakers. However, concerns have been raised that many never actually let their homes and leave them empty and are therefore unfairly benefiting from the tax break.

Following consultation, the government will now bring changes to the tax system, which will mean second homeowners must pay council tax if they are not genuine holiday lets.

From April 2023, second homeowners will have to prove holiday lets are being rented out for a minimum of 70 days a year to access small business rates relief, where they meet the criteria.

The rules are -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/furnished-holiday-lettings-hs253-self-assessment-helpsheet/hs253-furnished-holiday-lettings-2020

You must let the property commercially as furnished holiday accommodation to the public for at least 105 days in the year (70 days for the tax year 2011 to 2012 and earlier).

I expect sbrr to be removed for fhls.

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With a crooked smile
15 hours ago, spygirl said:

Currently, owners of second homes in England can avoid paying council tax and access small business rates relief by simply declaring an intention to let the property out to holidaymakers. However, concerns have been raised that many never actually let their homes and leave them empty and are therefore unfairly benefiting from the tax break.

Personally I think this is bullshit. In the past there were very few holiday homes as you had to be really rich to afford a second home without letting it out. Now with the Airbnb explosion there are lots of holiday let's where letting is the primary objective and taking a family holiday a couple of times a year comes second to that. I doubt many never let their homes out for 70 days plus. 

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2 hours ago, With a crooked smile said:

Personally I think this is bullshit. In the past there were very few holiday homes as you had to be really rich to afford a second home without letting it out. Now with the Airbnb explosion there are lots of holiday let's where letting is the primary objective and taking a family holiday a couple of times a year comes second to that. I doubt many never let their homes out for 70 days plus. 

20y+ ago, yep.

Most holiday let's and 2nd homes near me used to inherited - dead aunt, parents old house  etc.

There was little to know lending by banks n BSes.

There was *some* lending in the arseend  80s for 2ndhomes and FHL. But the bust as so great that mainstream lenders still swerve both types of lending.

Thus has changed in the last 10y with fhls getting a wave of fucktards who  missed out io btl mad gainzz.

And these fucktards have been enabled by some v v stupid lenders- Leeds bs n Cumberland.

Again, remove sbrr and its fixed.

Letting the Leeds or Cumberland go bust would help too. Both books are grossly exposed to non standard lending. A good lesson to the sector.

 

 

 

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Wight Flight
5 hours ago, With a crooked smile said:

Personally I think this is bullshit. In the past there were very few holiday homes as you had to be really rich to afford a second home without letting it out. Now with the Airbnb explosion there are lots of holiday let's where letting is the primary objective and taking a family holiday a couple of times a year comes second to that. I doubt many never let their homes out for 70 days plus. 

Sadly it isn't bullshit.

The village I had to leave is 82% second homes. Most of those are only occupied two weeks a year, and are never rented out.

 

 

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On 16/01/2022 at 11:32, With a crooked smile said:

Personally I think this is bullshit. In the past there were very few holiday homes as you had to be really rich to afford a second home without letting it out. Now with the Airbnb explosion there are lots of holiday let's where letting is the primary objective and taking a family holiday a couple of times a year comes second to that. I doubt many never let their homes out for 70 days plus. 

Altus said there are now 70,729 homes in England classified as holiday homes which have been flipped to "commercial" premises, up from 56,102 just before the start of the pandemic in March 2020, and which are now entitled to £190.61 million in Omicron grants.

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