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One percent

Leaked blueprint: ending free movement

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I thought this deserved a thread.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4855264/Tough-new-immigration-rules-revealed-massive-leak.html

The government honouring the result of the referendum by bringing in tough measures to curb immigration, a Cabinet minister said today.

Sir Michael Fallon said ending free movement was necessary to reduce inflows after a leaked document outlined a new post-Brexit system.

The proposals included action to slash the number of low-skilled EU workers and force bosses to put British workers first.

A ‚Äėdirect numerical cap‚Äô on immigration could be imposed when the UK leaves the 28-nation EU in March 2019, according to the Home Office report.

Asked about the document, Defence Secretary Sir Michael stressed that the government would spell out its plans later this year.

But he made clear ministers' determination to meet the Tory target for reducing annual net migration below 100,000 a year.

'This is our target,' he told BBC Radio 4's Today. 'We need to get immigration down and we need to show the public that it is being properly controlled.' 

Under the blueprint, low-skilled workers would be allowed to stay for only one or two years while professionals could apply for five-year visas.



 

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2 minutes ago, One percent said:

But he made clear ministers' determination to meet the Tory target for reducing annual net migration below 100,000 a year.

'This is our target,' he told BBC Radio 4's Today. 'We need to get immigration down and we need to show the public that it is being properly controlled.'
 

100K / year, not very aspirational. That's a city the size of Southampton every decade that needs to be built.

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Just now, davidg said:

100K / year, not very aspirational. That's a city the size of Southampton every decade that needs to be built.

Agree but the numbers coming in at the moment is phenomenal. 

It's a 50 odd page report and it would be interesting to see what else is in there. If there is mention of cutting bennies (tip hat @spygirl) then they would deal with the problem in a stroke. 

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13 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

Won't happen IMO, or the bar will be set so low that Polish baristas(often employed in American non-tax-paying chains!)  and Romanian carwashers will be classified as skilled workers. You wait, the business "leaders" will throw their toys out of the pram, they don't like employing young Brits. They'll have to be forced to it, and the politicos are spineless. The farmers will kick off first, then the EU, then landlords/landowners and all other vested interests will follow.

Also this won't stop any of the immigration that remains the biggest longterm threat to the UK's culture, -  low-skilled immigration from Islamic cultures, this is mostly being done via asylum claims, marriages and other family movements and is a LOT harder nut to crack legally. 

Fine. Just don't expect the tax payer to subsidise below living wages. 

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10 minutes ago, One percent said:

Fine. Just don't expect the tax payer to subsidise below living wages. 

That's not so easy to back out of just like that. Stopping all in-work benefits (which are all subsidies to too-low wages) would trigger a massive recession with all of the associated issues including massive job losses and a short term growth in the benefits bill.  

There are areas of the country, so I am given to understand, that would practically be empty dystopian crime-ridden wastelands without tax credits/SSP/DLA/Housing benefits/child benefits.

The economy has so much funny money in it, and balloons don't tend to deflate gently.

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32 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

Won't happen IMO, or the bar will be set so low that Polish baristas(often employed in American non-tax-paying chains!)  and Romanian carwashers will be classified as skilled workers. You wait, the business "leaders" will throw their toys out of the pram, they don't like employing young Brits. They'll have to be forced to it, and the politicos are spineless. The farmers will kick off first, then the EU, then landlords/landowners and all other vested interests will follow.

Also this won't stop any of the immigration that remains the biggest longterm threat to the UK's culture, -  low-skilled immigration from Islamic cultures, this is mostly being done via asylum claims, marriages and other family movements and is a LOT harder nut to crack legally. 

Nope.

Tax credits are costing the UK a fortune.

Its bad enough they are provided for UK citizens. Theres no need to give the mto non brits.

Easiest way to handle migration is enhance existing rules:

- No non EU migrant must have menas to support themselves, Either cash or at least a 30k job.

Non EU fmailies most have cash or 60k job. Healthcare for under 65s should be set to 2k/head. Have TB test FFS. 4k/head for school.

- No housing benefit for non UK vitizens. EU or no. Popel hwo move to the uK are not homeless. They are in the wrong fucking country.

- No in work beneftis for EU citizens. Part of wider tax credit reforms.

 

Farmer and Coast can fuck off. They just need to pay their workers 18k and any externa lcosts.

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Nope.

Tax credits are costing the UK a fortune.

Its bad enough they are provided for UK citizens. Theres no need to give the mto non brits.

Easiest way to handle migration is enhance existing rules:

- No non EU migrant must have menas to support themselves, Either cash or at least a 30k job.

Non EU fmailies most have cash or 60k job. Healthcare for under 65s should be set to 2k/head. Have TB test FFS. 4k/head for school.

- No housing benefit for non UK vitizens. EU or no. Popel hwo move to the uK are not homeless. They are in the wrong fucking country.

- No in work beneftis for EU citizens. Part of wider tax credit reforms.

 

Farmer and Coast can fuck off. They just need to pay their workers 18k and any externa lcosts.

 

 

 

:) Better wipe the spittle from your lips and take a valium!

I fear the post-Brexit policies are going to be a disappointment to you......

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19 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Nope.

Tax credits are costing the UK a fortune.

Its bad enough they are provided for UK citizens. Theres no need to give the mto non brits.

Easiest way to handle migration is enhance existing rules:

- No non EU migrant must have menas to support themselves, Either cash or at least a 30k job.

Non EU fmailies most have cash or 60k job. Healthcare for under 65s should be set to 2k/head. Have TB test FFS. 4k/head for school.

- No housing benefit for non UK vitizens. EU or no. Popel hwo move to the uK are not homeless. They are in the wrong fucking country.

- No in work beneftis for EU citizens. Part of wider tax credit reforms.

 

Farmer and Coast can fuck off. They just need to pay their workers 18k and any externa lcosts.

 

 

 

+2000000

Ban the big issue entirely.

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4 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

That's not so easy to back out of just like that. Stopping all in-work benefits (which are all subsidies to too-low wages) would trigger a massive recession with all of the associated issues including massive job losses and a short term growth in the benefits bill.  

There are areas of the country, so I am given to understand, that would practically be empty dystopian crime-ridden wastelands without tax credits/SSP/DLA/Housing benefits/child benefits.

The economy has so much funny money in it, and balloons don't tend to deflate gently.

No they wont, not for non UK citizens.

At the mo. scoial costs - to the UK + EU citizens - are a massive drain. The cost of inwork (mainly tax credits) is somewhere bigger than education and almost equivaletnet to pensions costs.

Tax credits need to move to 38h/week, reducing the payout by 22 x NMW.

This will give a top up of ~400-500/m to fmailies - providing they hld down a job. Im very pro this.

Housing benefit needs to be sorted too.

First step is denying it to non UK citizens. Non UK citizens with a housign problem are i nthe wrong the country FFS.

 

50 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

:) Better wipe the spittle from your lips and take a valium!

I fear the post-Brexit policies are going to be a disappointment to you......

For the record, Im a blue collary type.

Anyone looking at tax credits and their availability to non UK citizens too can see what a gordon brown-ing fuck up they are.

 

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3 minutes ago, spygirl said:

No they wont, not for non UK citizens.

At the mo. scoial costs - to the UK + EU citizens - are a massive drain. The cost of inwork (mainly tax credits) is somewhere bigger than education and almost equivaletnet to pensions costs.

Tax credits need to move to 38h/week, reducing the payout by 22 x NMW.

This will give a top up of ~400-500/m to fmailies - providing they hld down a job. Im very pro this.

Housing benefit needs to be sorted too.

First step is denying it to non UK citizens. Non UK citizens with a housign problem are i nthe wrong the country FFS.

 

For the record, Im a blue collary type.

Anyone looking at tax credits and their availability to non UK citizens too can see what a gordon brown-ing fuck up they are.

 

+1000000

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Tbh

1 hour ago, swissy_fit said:

That's not so easy to back out of just like that. Stopping all in-work benefits (which are all subsidies to too-low wages) would trigger a massive recession with all of the associated issues including massive job losses and a short term growth in the benefits bill.  

Tbh, I just don't see how giving benefits to EU migrants makes Britain wealthier.... EU fruit pickers pay little in tax and are a drain to the taxpayer. Fruit farms are unlikely to pay much in tax... If fruit farmers went out of business I don't see the UK getting poorer, in fact I think the country would become richer...

It's the same with a lot of industries, they suck up taxpayers money and are a net drain to the taxpayer.

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54 minutes ago, spygirl said:

No they wont, not for non UK citizens.

At the mo. scoial costs - to the UK + EU citizens - are a massive drain. The cost of inwork (mainly tax credits) is somewhere bigger than education and almost equivaletnet to pensions costs.

Tax credits need to move to 38h/week, reducing the payout by 22 x NMW.

This will give a top up of ~400-500/m to fmailies - providing they hld down a job. Im very pro this.

Housing benefit needs to be sorted too.

First step is denying it to non UK citizens. Non UK citizens with a housign problem are i nthe wrong the country FFS.

 

For the record, Im a blue collary type.

Anyone looking at tax credits and their availability to non UK citizens too can see what a gordon brown-ing fuck up they are.

 

It's not that I don't agree with you spy(and not sure why you mentioned being blue collary). But as we've discussed before, the UK is in a corner. Your ideas would certainly be best in the long term, but would create carnage and lawlessness in the short term and there is no Thatcher type with both the conviction and a massive majority to implement them.  Most of the time I'm just pointing out realpolitik.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Great Guy said:

Tbh

Tbh, I just don't see how giving benefits to EU migrants makes Britain wealthier.... EU fruit pickers pay little in tax and are a drain to the taxpayer. Fruit farms are unlikely to pay much in tax... If fruit farmers went out of business I don't see the UK getting poorer, in fact I think the country would become richer...

One fruit farmer was on telly talking about moving to somewhere else - may have been Poland. Whether the fruit will grow as well is another matter or whether other countries let you buy farm land and property if you're not a native is another consideration.

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2 hours ago, swissy_fit said:

It's not that I don't agree with you spy(and not sure why you mentioned being blue collary). But as we've discussed before, the UK is in a corner. Your ideas would certainly be best in the long term, but would create carnage and lawlessness in the short term and there is no Thatcher type with both the conviction and a massive majority to implement them.  Most of the time I'm just pointing out realpolitik.

 

 

Good points made in yours and @spygirl's posts above, your spelling is better though, git a good ketbaord have you?)

I was pleased (especially since I'm poor but work long hours) to read the following from spy:

"Tax credits need to move to 38h/week, reducing the payout by 22 x NMW.
This will give a top up of ~400-500/m to fmailies - providing they hld down a job. Im very pro this."

This, and the freeing up of jobs left vacant when foreigns fuck off* will mean people prepared to work hard will be ok.

We do have deserving poor though, people who can't work (as opposed to won't), we should look after our own. The undeserving poor who will not try should be given time but after that, fuck them -crime might rise for while and we might need to spend more on police and prisons. I would be ok with that, keen on it even.

 

*worded that way for amusement only.

Edited by Carl Fimble
adding shit, tge correxting spellign

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5 hours ago, swissy_fit said:

Won't happen IMO, or the bar will be set so low that Polish baristas(often employed in American non-tax-paying chains!)  and Romanian carwashers will be classified as skilled workers. You wait, the business "leaders" will throw their toys out of the pram, they don't like employing young Brits. They'll have to be forced to it, and the politicos are spineless. The farmers will kick off first, then the EU, then landlords/landowners and all other vested interests will follow.

Also this won't stop any of the immigration that remains the biggest longterm threat to the UK's culture, -  low-skilled immigration from Islamic cultures, this is mostly being done via asylum claims, marriages and other family movements and is a LOT harder nut to crack legally. 

Yes.  It is an interesting article though as it seems to go against most everything that the tories have stood for especially in recent times.

Why is this secret document being leaked now.  Why is it "secret" in the first place - but that's a separate issue.  Remember that this secret document is being leaked by the party that made a general election promise in 2010 (and more recently in 2015 and then 2017) to cut the numbers down to tens of thousands and that was 7 years ago and the numbers have recently still been setting record highs even compared to the numbers under the other set of liars' party.

Quote

The proposals included action to slash the number of low-skilled EU workers and force bosses to put British workers first.

That's worth a giggle isn't it.  

When has that ever happened in recent years going back decades - it's not as if most of those companies are even British owned so like the politicians they have no loyalty to anything British apart from the bottom line.  Maybe British workers first with housing as well?  When that one comes out again it'll be worth another loud guffaw.

"Forced" - and by the Conservatives to boot - what a laugh.  

Quote

 

Last night Whitehall sources insisted the document had not been signed off by ministers and immigration policy was still a 'work in progress'.

 

"Still a work in progress" - that's more like it.  A work that'll be reneged on in any final version of the secret document plastered across the pages of the mail.

Of course it would be good for the British people if the numbers were slashed - as they promised 7 years ago (eu to blame for reneging on that ;) xD) but what's the real reason for leaking these fresh "promises" right now.  

The best possibility seems to be that there must be another general election strongly in the offing.

 

Edited by twocents

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And so it begins :-

In the course of reading that I saw that 260 thousand non-EU people arrived in 2016. How many (of those that are working, some will be students and the like) of these were high-skilled and are not drawing tax credits, d'you reckon?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41172505

 

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9 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

I've got this screenshot of where the benefits bill is spent...

What surprises me is how little is spent on unemployment benefits.

The figures are from 2015 and the total is £258 billion.

benefits.JPG

Dole - or JSA - is fuck all of fuckall.

The big spends are pensions - which Ive no problem with - I do wit hthe free stuff like pension credit (they should have worked and saved) bus passes (x93 - dont ask), and free tv license.

And tax credits and DLA.

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42 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

I've heard two people recently mutter about having to do less hours now they've got a better paying job cos of tax credits.


At the same time the cops I know are worn out doing over time. 

Anyone in FT work is carrying a huge burden, esp. those in the private sector who are generatign the cash for Brown's luntic system.

Again, rough arse numbers for my kids schools.

~50% of families are on tax credits - all doing some made up/low hours jobs, with a ~1.5k month cash payout.

Another ~30%  of familis are public sector - teachers, NHS, gov labs.

Its very rare for me to meet someone who does not rely on the state for the majority of their income.

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Then you see the residents of Grenfell Tower and they are third worlders that are unlikely to contribute much... Sooner or later we will have to reduce welfare benefits or make them contribution based.

I just don't see why people can spend decades on welfare then "retire" and get a state pension.

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