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Fossildog

EU to force migrant quotas on Visegrad Group

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1 minute ago, Fossildog said:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41172638

 

 

This is going to end really badly, isn't it.  

 

 

 

EU officials insisted from the start that the scheme was binding on all member states regardless of whether they had voted for it or not. Hungary, Slovakia, the Czech Republic and Romania had objected to the quotas.

Yes, I'd say the only way it can end is badly.

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7 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Well that would depend upon your definition of "badly"; a huge irreperable split in the EU leading to its collapse sounds peachy to me.

Won't they just waffle and fine Hungary and the others? Can't see them throwing them out, and if the fine is a few tens of millions, I'd imagine the Hungarians would prefer just to pay it.

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4 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

Won't they just waffle and fine Hungary and the others? Can't see them throwing them out, and if the fine is a few tens of millions, I'd imagine the Hungarians would prefer just to pay it.

I think that's more likely but that then shows than member states can stick two fingers up at core EU decisions if they don't like them.  So Herr Obergruppenführer Juncker who having tired of Luxembourg and thought he could take over as dictator of Europe finds that people just ignore him.

And the mugs that are Italy and Greece are now stuck with loads of illegal immigrants that nobody will take off their hands despite being told that this would happen.  Greece now either leaves the EU or becomes a failed state IMO; within the EU they are a basket case and are only going to get worse.

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If only there was a country leaving the EU who could show the way to other disgruntled nations. 😁

Maybe the UK should join EFTA (or create something very much like it alongside) and invite the Visigrad nations to follow. A new, invigorated, more powerful EFTA could secure tariff-free, fairly frictionless access to the Single Market without the baggage of customs union and FoM and for very little payment (contributions merely towards joint bodies for trade disputes etc, perhaps also any other institutions we would like to cooperate in but no stupidly large £20Bn sums we currently contribute).

 

Edited by the gardener

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I really don't get the EU.

Association of trading nations, fine.  Standardisation of standards for goods and services -- makes sense.  Free travel for work and tourism, great*.  

But why would anyone think that the nation's policy on illegal immigration should be set centrally?   

Despite all the protestations from Brussels, it just makes the EU look like an empire-building organisation, but based on economic blackmail rather than an invading fighting force.

I mean, if they did want to build an empire all they'd have to do is take it more slowly, try to hide these sorts of mandates. But they're making it obvious.  

[* but not for benefits.  That was always the problem.]

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3 minutes ago, the gardener said:

If only there was a country leaving the EU who could show the way to other disgruntled nations. 😁

Maybe the UK should join EFTA (or create something very much like it alongside) and invite the Visigrad nations to follow. A new, invigorated, more powerful EFTA could secure tariff-free, fairly frictionless access to the Single Market without the baggage of customs union and FoM and for very little payment (contributions merely towards joint bodies for trade disputes etc, perhaps also any other institutions we would like to cooperate in but no stupidly large £20Bn sums we currently contribute).

 

And wouldn't that be absolutely brilliant :)

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1 minute ago, dgul said:

I really don't get the EU.

Association of trading nations, fine.  Standardisation of standards for goods and services -- makes sense.  Free travel for work and tourism, great*.  

But why would anyone think that the nation's policy on illegal immigration should be set centrally?   

Despite all the protestations from Brussels, it just makes the EU look like an empire-building organisation, but based on economic blackmail rather than an invading fighting force.

I mean, if they did want to build an empire all they'd have to do is take it more slowly, try to hide these sorts of mandates. But they're making it obvious.  

[* but not for benefits.  That was always the problem.]

 

There are a lot of senior and powerful people in the western world who see the future as being huge blocks of land and people which will replace by amlagamation the existing nation states which they see as "barbarous relics".  I'm not invoking a shadowy conspiracy here because that's pretty much what the EU is openly doing and many politicians either support this or see it as inevitable so acccept it.

As you say they have been far too quick to do this, to assume compliance and that they can continue the progress to their goal unchecked.

We have become the first carriage to leave the train; Hungary and other EE states are pulling in the opposite direction ot the centre and the "inevitable" death of the nation state which the EU first covertly and now overtly assumed is no longer loooking inevitable; two thousand years of history are not smothered so easily. 

You would think that they would try to stop the fragmentation of the EU by winding back some of the legislation and being conciliatory; playing the long game.  They are not, however and fortunately for us all, as clever as that.  They are used to being agreed with and flattered so Juncker and Merkel are carrying on with their plan regardless; not realising that there are Red Army troops in the suburbs of Berlin.

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12 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

There are a lot of senior and powerful people in the western world who see the future as being huge blocks of land and people which will replace by amlagamation the existing nation states which they see as "barbarous relics".  I'm not invoking a shadowy conspiracy here because that's pretty much what the EU is openly doing and many politicians either support this or see it as inevitable so acccept it.

As you say they have been far too quick to do this, to assume compliance and that they can continue the progress to their goal unchecked.

We have become the first carriage to leave the train; Hungary and other EE states are pulling in the opposite direction ot the centre and the "inevitable" death of the nation state which the EU first covertly and now overtly assumed is no longer loooking inevitable; two thousand years of history are not smothered so easily. 

You would think that they would try to stop the fragmentation of the EU by winding back some of the legislation and being conciliatory; playing the long game.  They are not, however and fortunately for us all, as clever as that.  They are used to being agreed with and flattered so Juncker and Merkel are carrying on with their plan regardless; not realising that there are Red Army troops in the suburbs of Berlin.

If Russia decided to annexe one of the EU27, say Latvia or Lithuania (or even East Germany) then given the current "Fuck you" attitude which is the official policy of the EU 27 to the UK then I would say good luck to them. I wouldn't spend the life of even one British citizen defending them.

 

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1 minute ago, the gardener said:

If Russia decided to annexe one of the EU27, say Latvia or Lithuania (or even East Germany) then given the current "Fuck you" attitude which is the official policy of the EU 27 to the UK then I would say good luck to them. I wouldn't spend the life of even one British citizen defending them.

 

No.  Before the EU I always objected to British troops fighting and dying in the UN blue helmets and I would equally object to their being in an EU army defending an institution that I despise.

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22 minutes ago, the gardener said:

If Russia decided to annexe one of the EU27, say Latvia or Lithuania (or even East Germany) then given the current "Fuck you" attitude which is the official policy of the EU 27 to the UK then I would say good luck to them. I wouldn't spend the life of even one British citizen defending them.

 

Are you suggesting the UK should withdraw from NATO as well?

The Nato countries are: Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy,Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherland, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania,Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States.

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10 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

Are you suggesting the UK should withdraw from NATO as well?

The Nato countries are: Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy,Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherland, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania,Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States.

I'd be fine with acting as part of NATO; but definitely not as part of an EU army.

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17 minutes ago, Byron said:

Not really, Italy and Greece will just give them citizenship and then tell them to go to the UK ........................that is one of the reasons that the EU is panicking over Brexit.

Is not as simple as that, else Greece would have done that a long time ago. Best migrants can hope for is 'long term residency status', which still does not permit them entry to the UK. Even places like Germany require someone to have lived there for 8 years before a passport is granted. Additionally, the pull factor for other migrants would be immense if EU nations started handing out passports willynilly, which is why it will not happen.

Edited by Fossildog

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18 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

Are you suggesting the UK should withdraw from NATO as well?

The Nato countries are: Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy,Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherland, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania,Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States.

Well Russia can have Austria, Cyprus, Finland, Ireland, Malta or Sweden then 😀

 

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A note on terminology: the So-Called BBC uses the term migrant to refer to all people on the move who have yet to complete the legal process of claiming asylum. This group includes people fleeing war-torn countries such as Syria, who are likely to be granted refugee status, as well as people who are seeking jobs and better lives, who governments are likely to rule are economic migrants

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1 hour ago, the gardener said:

If only there was a country leaving the EU who could show the way to other disgruntled nations. 😁

Maybe the UK should join EFTA (or create something very much like it alongside) and invite the Visigrad nations to follow. A new, invigorated, more powerful EFTA could secure tariff-free, fairly frictionless access to the Single Market without the baggage of customs union and FoM and for very little payment (contributions merely towards joint bodies for trade disputes etc, perhaps also any other institutions we would like to cooperate in but no stupidly large £20Bn sums we currently contribute).

 

The UK was a founder member of EFTA. We left when we joined the EEC.

Edited by Happy Renting

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45 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

Are you suggesting the UK should withdraw from NATO as well?

I don't see why we need an independent nuclear deterrent and NATO membership. Really, for actual defense from a hostile foreign power nukes is all you need, so I'm not sure why we need so much in the way of armed forces beyond the nuclear submarines and a coastguard.

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Just now, steppensheep said:

Yes please. Would have thought a man of your (avatar's) heritage would be in favour.

No. Don't plan to return to the UK if I can help it but obviously it's my heritage and I wish it more than well. Granted, if there was a plan to implement Swiss-style democracy and neutrality(which remains an armed neutrality), I might be in favour of withdrawing from Nato, but there isn't.

I reckon Russia would be swallowing every part of every state where there is a Russophone community(and there are quite a few)  in short order without Nato, and that would be just the beginning.

10 minutes ago, Hail the Tripod said:

I don't see why we need an independent nuclear deterrent and NATO membership. Really, for actual defense from a hostile foreign power nukes is all you need, so I'm not sure why we need so much in the way of armed forces beyond the nuclear submarines and a coastguard.

Well the nukes are American, wouldn't want to bet on them working without US say-so. And the Swiss are neutral but maintain an army and even an airforce (much-disputed) , they're not stupid enough to believe neutrality protects them. Their biggest protection is probably being the bankers to all their potential enemies' elite!

Your idea would mean giving up the Falklands and all overseas territories. Gibraltar, Cyprus, no more following the Americans everywhere. No more meddling, no more influence, a whole different strategy, not sure the Foreign Office could adapt their thinking!

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