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One bedroomed houses and bungalows


UmBongo
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With a crooked smile
2 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

That isn't however enough to make up for the big purchase price and the lack of charging infrastructure generally to allow longer journeys.

Isn't one of the issues with EV that the battery needs replacing after a fairly limited number of miles and the orginal battery cost is subsidised but the replacement is not? Not sure what affect this has on total cost of ownership of EV vs combust able engine based car. 

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Frank Hovis
Just now, With a crooked smile said:

Isn't one of the issues with EV that the battery needs replacing after a fairly limited number of miles and the orginal battery cost is subsidised but the replacement is not? Not sure what affect this has on total cost of ownership of EV vs combust able engine based car. 

Yes.

Currently it means shelling out what many regard as the price of a car every six years for a new battery.

IMO the target audience for EVs at present is the same as that for PCPs; that is people who previously bought a new car every three years because they like driving a newish car all if the time.

These people are happy to spend £5k or more annually in order to always have a nice, new, reliable car.

I know quite a few people like this who will simply switch to EVs because for them the long term issues are simply non-existent.

They are only issues for people like you or me who keep their cars a long time so are looking at £1k average annual depreciation or even less than that.

I can't ever see EVs providing that sort of value or even coming close to it.

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Napoleon Dynamite
41 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Yes.

Currently it means shelling out what many regard as the price of a car every six years for a new battery.

....

I can't ever see EVs providing that sort of value or even coming close to it.

Mate's got a 4 year old Merc Hybrid.

Battery won't get him any further than 6 miles now.  Replacement battery is £6000.

Depreciation on his battery exceeds that of my 2 10 year old Jap ICE cars.

 

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gibbon
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Napoleon Dynamite said:

Mate's got a 4 year old Merc Hybrid.

Battery won't get him any further than 6 miles now.  Replacement battery is £6000.

Depreciation on his battery exceeds that of my 2 10 year old Jap ICE cars.

 

Nobody ever wants to talk about how the batteries are shafted after a few years when talking EVs. None of the twats on youtube doing these elaborate calculations rationalising to themselves how their EV is much more affordable than petrol ever factor in this huge cost every X years. 

If your mates hybrid is fucked after just 4 years just think how a pure EV is going to be. After 1.5 years I reckon my battery on my ebike is already down to 80% capacity. That's after taking very good care of the battery, keeping the bike indoors so it's not left outside in the cold which destroys batteries, never let it go under 30% charge and if I leave for a few days leave it on 80% charge not 100%. 

What fucking state are these Tesla batteries going to be left outside all night in freezing temps, doing hundreds of miles a week on full charge and discharge cycles. Absolutely fucked after a few years that's what. What fun will be worrying if you'll even make it to work and back? Oh new battery? Get ready to send Elon the equivalent of a new house deposit every 5 years. Mugs

Edited by gibbon
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 15/05/2021 at 10:09, Chewing Grass said:

Equals 8.5245E+10 kwh

Now smooth this out perfectly over 24x365 hours for a year.

That's 9.73GW of generation or 5 brand new 2GW Nuclear reactors more than we have now running all year continuously.

As I type the UK is generating a total 1.97GW from wind.

Your generation numbers are significantly out, maybe you are citing a spot figure not that weeks average hourly.

Wind is proving to be a good resource for the UK, generating more enegry than expected at cheaper costs than expected, as double win.

Plenty of resources exist to confirm a more correct generation figure, the UK capacity already exceeds the 9.73GW you cited and by 2026 should be well on the way to tripple that figure.  I'm much more optimistic for the future of the UKs wind generation than your reply indicates and potentially the excess being used to on-shore more automated manufacturering once the world stops offshoring pollution to china because they are "cheaper" partly due to lower environmental standards that cost money to uphold in the west.

You should also factor in with the big calculator the change from domestic heating to convert from gas to electric which is expected to occur over the next 15 years.  That is also going to be another significant new energy drain, but maybe wind will be 8 times bigger producer by then and storage technology will be 15years more advanced.

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Chewing Grass

Wind only works great guns when its windy, figures were smoothed out so are base load, cold'n'clear means little wind and solar is negligible for 3 months of the year.

Currently near me all the STOR facilities are running every evening btween 4:30 and 8:30 (and its not cold) which points to a big increase in base consumption (new housing, Teslas & Polestars (they are nice).

The problem is not the Generating Capacity its provision of base load under still conditions, when its windy they have already run the entire UK off Wind, Nuke, Solar, a bit of hydro and some wood chips.

Mr Fusion is pencilled in for 2040 and is expected to come in at 4GW and is expected to be built at Ratcliffe on Soar (but don't tell anyone) as its a not very well kept secret.

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Funn3r

A few years ago I got chatting with a guy I met; he was German and worked in automotive design. Think he said he worked for one of the well-known manufacturers but can't remember. Seemed like total brainbox and said the future was certainly electric but it would be hybrid. He said Honda had completely wrecked the public perception of the 2-stroke engine and now everyone thinks they are smelly greasy noisy and suitable only for lawnmowers. In fact 2-stroke EV hybrid was the biz as far as he was concerned.

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Frank Hovis
8 hours ago, Funn3r said:

A few years ago I got chatting with a guy I met; he was German and worked in automotive design. Think he said he worked for one of the well-known manufacturers but can't remember. Seemed like total brainbox and said the future was certainly electric but it would be hybrid. He said Honda had completely wrecked the public perception of the 2-stroke engine and now everyone thinks they are smelly greasy noisy and suitable only for lawnmowers. In fact 2-stroke EV hybrid was the biz as far as he was concerned.

Maybe it's better on another thread but I have never understood the point of hybrids; plug in or non.

The only advantage seems to be driving on electricity in town for a very limited number of miles.

On the downsides:

You are carrying the weight of two engines with consequent reduction in mpg and increased purchase and maintenance costs

The battery range is usually tiny - ten miles or less 

It must be massively inefficient to use the petrol engine to charge the battery and then use that charge to drive the electric motor. Surely simply using the petrol engine to power the car is massively more efficient.

 

The whole concept of the hybrid sounds simply mental to me.  It's on a par with thinking it a good idea to have a car with both a petrol engine for town driving and a diesel engine for motorways and A roads.

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Funn3r
37 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

The whole concept of the hybrid sounds simply mental to me.  It's on a par with thinking it a good idea to have a car with both a petrol engine for town driving and a diesel engine for motorways and A roads.

I'm not so sure. I had a hybrid rental car in Spain last year and there was a dash display explaining what it was doing exactly. I was in a fairly mountainous place and I thought it was quite clever how the system charged up the battery as we were going downhill.

You can get electric vans but not much range, especially if loaded with goods, so intended as runabouts in a local area only. But suppose you carried a normal portable 2-stroke generator in the back for when it needed a bit of oomph. Wouldn't be very practical but if the 2-stroke were properly integrated it might be useable surely.

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Frank Hovis
2 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

I'm not so sure. I had a hybrid rental car in Spain last year and there was a dash display explaining what it was doing exactly. I was in a fairly mountainous place and I thought it was quite clever how the system charged up the battery as we were going downhill.

You can get electric vans but not much range, especially if loaded with goods, so intended as runabouts in a local area only. But suppose you carried a normal portable 2-stroke generator in the back for when it needed a bit of oomph. Wouldn't be very practical but if the 2-stroke were properly integrated it might be useable surely.

Regenerative braking always seems like one of those things that sounds great in theory but in the real world has minimal effect.

I cannot see hybrids as being anything other than a dead end which has only become a viable product through tax breaks and congestion charging exemptions which treat them as EVs when they are really ICEs.

A bit like Luncheon Vouchers; which I used to receive each month with my pay.

Take away the tax breaks and they are pointless.

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15 hours ago, Chewing Grass said:

 

Currently near me all the STOR facilities are running every evening btween 4:30 and 8:30 (and its not cold) which points to a big increase in base consumption (new housing, 

Sizwell B 1200MW down at moment. Went for its usual maintenance downtime and found problems with Steel rods in reactor. Won't be back online till at least August!

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Frank Hovis
1 hour ago, Bilbo said:

Sizwell B 1200MW down at moment. Went for its usual maintenance downtime and found problems with Steel rods in reactor. Won't be back online till at least August!

So that's why I had a power cut about an hour ago!

 

This is a cracking website if anyone hasn't seen it.  I think Kurt posted it originally.

Currently burning natural gas is providing the majority of our electricity with small amounts coming in from France and Belgium.

https://www.electricitymap.org/zone/GB

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Royston
On 14/05/2021 at 01:04, wherebee said:

One bedrom flats means that you are also more exposed to the dangers of bad neighbours (more in a small space, more shared walls).  One noisy neighbour can ruin the lives of 10 others in a block of 1 bedders.

The ideal solution is i) one bed bungalows and ii) population reduction.  However, neither is in line with your masters plans.

As far as I'm concerned the smaller the better, even a small 2 up 2 down is too big for my needs.

I'd be quite happy in a studio flat if it wasn't for the issues you've mentioned... more shared walls, noisy neighbours, also being part of leasehold apartment block with rip off service charges, ground rent and maintenance bills.

A detached ''tiny house'' would suit me fine, spotted this recently but I don't think it's worth £80k, I'm surprised it's got ''domestic use'' (does that mean the same as residential use?)  considering it's just a former garage with single skin breeze block walls, no insulation, no heating, no bathroom, no waste water connection.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/108128897#/

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Frank Hovis

When the alternatives are paying out a stack of rent or living in a van then that kind of place seems a better idea.

I know one estate comprising very small closely-spaced one bed bungalows, social housing, which looks a bit like toy town but again does the job though is restricted to older people.

Whilst none of this is aspirational it does allow you the security of your own place plus a mortgage on an £80k place is going to be far cheaper than any rent so you can start building up your investments which will allow you in time to buy somewhere decent sized.

I described my small (owned) flat in London as my "bed" because that's pretty much all it was and all that you need when you're working full-time.

I wouldn't aspire to live in a converted garage but buy it and live there for twenty years whilst working full-time and you can build up a stack of cash.

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Royston
7 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

I wouldn't aspire to live in a converted garage but buy it and live there for twenty years whilst working full-time and you can build up a stack of cash.

I'd be looking at buying and living in something like that converted garage from the opposite end of the process... something I'd downsize to and free up cash to invest and draw down on for an early retirement and embark on my desperately needed hermit existence.

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Frank Hovis
3 minutes ago, Royston said:

I'd be looking at buying and living in something like that converted garage from the opposite end of the process... something I'd downsize to and free up cash to invest and draw down on for an early retirement and embark on my desperately needed hermit existence.

Would it be genuinely enough though? It's a fairly bleak place to spend a lot of time.

I appreciate that's not the intention but on cold winter days you would definitely feel that you were camping out in an old garage.

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Royston
1 hour ago, Frank Hovis said:

Would it be genuinely enough though? It's a fairly bleak place to spend a lot of time.

I appreciate that's not the intention but on cold winter days you would definitely feel that you were camping out in an old garage.

.

I agree that particular example is not worth £80k and I don't understand how ican meet Building Control requirements as a residential dwelling in it's current state.

But if that had been converted properly with insulation, dry lined, crog loft bed space, small shower room and connected to waste water, I'd be quite happy with something that size in that location even in winter.

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