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Marathon training tips


With a crooked smile
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With a crooked smile

I'm thinking about training for a marathon again. 

I've tried several times and I only ever get as far as being able to do a long run or 16 miles. At that point I find I can't recover enough and improve between weekly long runs. 

Anyone got any good diet plans or training plans that might help me get over the line. 

I'm mid 40s can run a half marathon in about 1 hour 50 sometimes a few mins less. 

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nirvana
Posted (edited)

you're off your tits! I used to run sub 1h30 as a teenager, gave it up a long time ago....cycle and your legs will thank you for it, especially at your age too :P

PS bananas lol

Edited by nirvana
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With a crooked smile

Ha. Ha, I've never quite enjoyed cycling as much I find in harder to get the cadence just right. 

I can think of plenty of older marathon runners Sophie Raworth, Jimmy Saville. 

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With a crooked smile
1 hour ago, Stuey said:

That sort of distance fucks up most people IMO.

Yeah I don't disagree, it's something I've always fancied doing. I'd probably look to complete 1 or 2 and then go back to regular 10k to 10 mile long runs and a couple of halfs a year. 

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nirvana
3 hours ago, With a crooked smile said:

Jimmy Saville

i used to see that rsole running up the A58 wetherby road.....he wasn't a well man, physically AND mentally....

keep practising with the bike! high cadence, spin it up! I've got a fit mate, who's a grinder and I used to try and be like him but I think spinning is the best.....steep climb, low gear, just spin it up! practice, practice

Good luck!

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Posted (edited)

look in to MAF running, or rather zone 2 running if MAF isn't your thing. I'm running ~50miles a week now, and regularly do 20 mile runs. This weekend I'm doing a Half M tomorrow, and 30K on Sunday. I'm 52 BTW so you've no excuses. My HM PB is 1:35 but that wasn't a race, just an unplanned "tempo" run. Marathon is 4h but that was a trail Ultra when I was running 50K :)

Building your aerobic base takes time, give it 6 months to a year especially if you have a very poor aerobic base, really don't need to do any anaerobic training for a Marathon, just keep churning out low effort miles, count the hours not the distance.

And I highly recommend Shane Benzie's book, Lost Art of Running, get the audio version and listen to it while running.

Edited by snaga
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Lurker
Posted (edited)

If you don't want to run more than 16 miles lookup the Hanson Plan.. https://hansons-running.com/pages/training-plans

I've run 7 marathons over the past 10 years, and used the Hanson plan for my last one (Phoenix) MESA Feb 2020. Previously I had had success doing long progression runs, up to 22 miles in distance. I would run the bulk 40/50-seconds slower than target pace and then drop 10sec per mile for the last 6. Used to listen to the marathon talk podcast for steady pace part before using some dance music for the last 6. It always felt great to going faster than MP at the end of a long training run, especially as there is mental side to running marathon. The years I ran well my 5 longest runs totaled > 100 miles, (a rule of thumb from more experienced runner that me) the other years I died.
At the time I did have a good base and ran often; a 14 miles group run on Sunday morning (with the odd 17-18) during training was standard.

VLM 2017 was my last UK marathon before moving to Phoenix, I trained here in he fall of 2019 for a few 1/2s and and I was 90 seconds of my 9 year old PR, so decided to try and Boston qualify using Mesa. The idea of doing long 20+miles runs again didn't make me happy,  plus I wasn't running more than 5-6  at at time and probably doing 23 mile weeks, before training. I think my longest run since moving was a single 14 miles up to fall half. 

I found the Hanson plan and followed that, It's basically constant overloading;  one speed workout, one tempo, one long run (max is 16 miles) per a week.  It was tough; somedays the easy runs felt like a sufferfest, it was hard just trying to run my slower 9mins pace while thinking 'there is no way I'm running a 10mile tempo @7 flat tomorrow', but somehow it worked. My body would recover overnight. Not sure what magic was behind it but if but it made me fast & strong enough to beat a 8 year PR and BQ

If was to change it I would make the longer run 2h30, instead of 16miles for next time.

Oh and it want free time, and have the money buy a pair of Nike Vaporflys/alphaflys Next% for the race - They are absolute rocketships! There is a reason the elites wear them, they are legit amazing and I estimate they provide a free 10/sec per mile. Saucony's endorphin pro are meant to be similar
 

Edited by Lurker
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Difference between me and Lurker's approach seems to be motivation. Would I be right in saying you like to set PBs, BQ, do the best you can?

Where as my approach is more about enjoying being outdoors, running for relaxation and health. My PBs are incidental rather than the driver.

Nothing wrong with both, and I'm probably in the minority, but for your first Marathon don't worry too much about the finishing time, try to enjoy the journey.

And read the book, running is a skill you have probably forgotten, you did it naturally as a child but your body now needs to be taught to run again. 

 

 

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With a crooked smile

Thanks both for input above. @snagaPBs aren't really motivation here I'd just like to get round without walking.

Once I've completed something I do like to better myself (I'm never really bothered about where I finish in relation to others) but really I run for enjoyment and the endorphin release I get from slow burn longer runs. 

I'll have more of a look at what both of you have suggested above. 

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Hancock
4 hours ago, Lurker said:


 buy a pair of Nike Vaporflys/alphaflys Next% for the race - 
 

Do they make life easier for someone who struggles to get out and run, or are they more of an aid for those who can run but want to go a little faster.

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Forget marathons, they're for time chasing show offs mashing their bodies on tarmac. xD

This may be controversial but it's my view that it's easier to do an ultramarathon of 50k on trails where the softer surfaces take less toll on the body (you train on them as well as do the race/challenge on them), and in ultras it's perfectly fine to walk the hills and go at a slower overall pace as it's all about the journey (though there are cutoff so can't dilly dally too long) and getting to the finish than chasing times that puts stress on the training and event itself as it doesn't take much for things to go wrong, from blisters to stomach issues to bad/hot weather to getting lost on the route.

The other benefit of trails in general over road running is the variety of terrain, so less repetitive muscle fatigue and therefore less risk of injury through overuse, though more risk of inury from twisting an ankle, kicking a rock, or slipping on wet grass/mud. So I find it easier to run longer distances on trail than on tarmac and just getting more into nature has its own reward too.

 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, BoSon said:

Forget marathons, they're for time chasing show offs mashing their bodies on tarmac. xD

This may be controversial but it's my view that it's easier to do an ultramarathon of 50k on trails

 

True to a certain degree, for the vast majority, an 50k ultra is easier, it's more of a participation sport, when the aim is to complete the distance. Road marathons are all about doing it as fast as possible.

Nobody cares what your 50K PB is, you're more likely to be asked so when are you doing a 50 miler? and how much elevation?

Edited by snaga
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4 minutes ago, snaga said:

True to a certain degree, for the vast majority, an 50k ultra is easier, it's more of a participation sport, when the aim is to complete the distance. Road marathons are all about doing it as fast as possible.

Nobody cares what your 50K PB is, you're more likely to be asked so when are you doing a 50 miler? and how much elevation?

Yep. The personal goals for the common distance ultras of 50 or 100 mile are getting under symbolic decent finish times (e.g. 10 hours for the 50, 24 hours for the 100) if chasing performance, so similar to the symbolic 4 hour marathon for normal folk rather than all the variety of training required for sub 3 that the club racers love.

No intervals, theshold runs, track burnups needed for trail running, just perhaps hill repeats if targetting a course that's hilly and can't run similar terrain beforehand.

So if you enjoy club racing and track running a road marathon is the natural target. If you can't be bothered with all that then check out trail running. You can go as far as you want at the pace you want. B|

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  • 2 weeks later...
dillinger
Posted (edited)

35 years since my last Marathon.

I would have ran, not necessarily in training for one four times a week.

2 x 6 miles, 1 x 10 and 1 x 13 miles a week.

I wouldn't have stepped it up too much when training for one except stretch my 13 mile run to near 20 miles.

Edited by dillinger
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Posted (edited)

Marathon? that's not even a warm up .... this is still going on, incredible.

image.png.5d64cdb4e58090ff4ab2dfce1c4a715f.png

Edited by snaga
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they are still going, lap 71 now, they broke the UK record at 65 laps, world record is 75.

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24 minutes ago, ccc said:

I'm confused by what they are doing O.o

Last one standing format. The course is a 4.5 mile loop, they have to complete a lap and be ready to start the next lap on the hour, every hour. You can either run the lap slow and have a short break between laps, or run fast and have a longer break.

whoever competes the most laps wins, they can't both quit together and call it a draw, as they would both lose in that scenario, there doesn't have to be a winner.

They have smashed the world record, now on lap 79.

https://www.facebook.com/ChallengeRunning/

live results here - Timing Monkey :: Suffolk Back Yard Ultra

 

 

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4 minutes ago, snaga said:

Last one standing format. The course is a 4.5 mile loop, they have to complete a lap and be ready to start the next lap on the hour, every hour. You can either run the lap slow and have a short break between laps, or run fast and have a longer break.

whoever competes the most laps wins, they can't both quit together and call it a draw, as they would both lose in that scenario, there doesn't have to be a winner.

They have smashed the world record, now on lap 79.

https://www.facebook.com/ChallengeRunning/

live results here - Timing Monkey :: Suffolk Back Yard Ultra

 

 

Ah so like the centurion drinking challenge !!

Brutal. That's a long way to run. 

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haroldshand
On 27/05/2021 at 23:20, With a crooked smile said:

I'm thinking about training for a marathon again. 

I've tried several times and I only ever get as far as being able to do a long run or 16 miles. At that point I find I can't recover enough and improve between weekly long runs. 

Anyone got any good diet plans or training plans that might help me get over the line. 

I'm mid 40s can run a half marathon in about 1 hour 50 sometimes a few mins less. 

Run lower heart rate longer mileage training rather than training runs that are too intense, if you cannot talk you are going to hard

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