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EVs in the real world - just don't


Frank Hovis
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6 hours ago, Great Guy said:

an EV is a fairly awesome "housewives car".

I would agree,  except:

* They cost double that of a cheap petrol run about.

* They don’t save much planet/fuel because you’re only doing low mileage anyway.

 

It may make sense one day when the taxation system distorts the market enough to make Greta happy..  but at the moment it doesn’t make sense economically (or probably environmentally for that matter either).

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5 hours ago, Great Guy said:

I'd imagine an electric motor is a lot more efficient at converting energy to  movement?

I’m waiting for them to develop a kinetic energy pump so I can get 300% efficiency..    :Passusabeer:

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swiss_democracy_for_all
17 minutes ago, nirvana said:

how's about an ebike? go on gimme a saturday morning laugh before I go out on my push bike, what's your monthly food spend again?

I think the probs now is most folks think like corporates and they see 'transit as welfare' :wanker:

it's all in the planning :P

 

Screenshot_2021-05-29_06-58-58.png

Nope, to get people out of cars or enable generalized EVs the authorities will have to try harder and consider the realities of everyday life, which seems to be something that urban planners are very bad at.

There are new apartment buildings going up all around, in Geneva and in the surrounding area, and none, NONE of them have the necessary equipment to enable electrification, easy internet food deliveries and everyone to have a secure place for an expensive e-bike. They’re not even trying. They think good buses and trams are all that’s required. 

Edited by swiss_democracy_for_all
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12 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

There are new apartment buildings going up all around, in Geneva and in the surrounding area, and none, NONE of them have the necessary equipment to enable electrification, easy internet food deliveries and everyone to have a secure place for an expensive e-bike. They’re not even trying.

hold on man, you don't need a lot of leccy to charge an ebike

the future for urban delivery should be an electric cargo bike!

everyone's looking at it from the wrong POV IMHO :P

rather than lugging your fat arse around in a fat ecar you should be going for the lightweight ebikes

How many bananas can you get in there? xD

AND they are only expensive cos the fecking governments are interfering in markets with subsidies! Look what happened to solar panel price when they stopped the leccy producers doing deals for the rich at the expense of increased costs for the rest of the plebs o.O

 

Gear-URBAN-ARROW%C2%A9-Family-Performance-CX-Shimano-Zee-3.jpg

Edited by nirvana
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21 minutes ago, nirvana said:

hold on man, you don't need a lot of leccy to charge an ebike

the future for urban delivery should be an electric cargo bike!

everyone's looking at it from the wrong POV IMHO :P

rather than lugging your fat arse around in a fat ecar you should be going for the lightweight ebikes

How many bananas can you get in there? xD

AND they are only expensive cos the fecking governments are interfering in markets with subsidies! Look what happened to solar panel price when they stopped the leccy producers doing deals for the rich at the expense of increased costs for the rest of the plebs o.O

 

Gear-URBAN-ARROW%C2%A9-Family-Performance-CX-Shimano-Zee-3.jpg

"Do you struggle to get to work on time now that ICE cars have been banned? Well worry no more. With the patentd Reeves & Mortimor Bike 'n' Bath, you can junp straight out of bed and start pedalling.

After you arrive at work looking like Boris Johnson and smelling like Kier Starmers chances of winning an election, you can simple jump in the tub and give your arse and pits a thorough wash in freezing cold water, basking in the knowledge that YOU are saving the planet."

 

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6 hours ago, whitevanman said:

The papergirl round here uses an electric scooter. The only trouble with them is that if you're over 18 they make you look like a twat

So, a non polluting journey, presuming she walked or cycled the paper round has now been replaced by one that requires electricity?

Well done Greta. Laziness and convenience will always win.

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5 hours ago, Bien Pensant said:

In London, again, it seems that every other lamp post now has a charging point in it.

A charging point for one car or can multiple cars plug in to it?

Given you can typically park at least 6-8 cars between every other lamp post that still leaves a lot of cars needing a charging point if it is only for one car.

And as you say, that's in London again... I won't hold my breath waiting for anything like that level of charging infrastructure to appear in provincial (especially northern) towns and residential areas.

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11 hours ago, Malthus said:

It’ll only work when there is a big saving having a battery car 

Better batteries, quicker charging or a big jump in oil prices/tax could do it 

 

Why on earth do none of them create a car with big cylindrical batteries that can slide out and be replaced with charged ones at a filling station. I know they're big but you either have muscly youth giving service or a mechanical contraption.

Doesn't seem like it's fancy tech or original idea [it's just a bigger AA battery]. Perhaps that's the problem.

2 hours ago, nirvana said:

how's about an ebike? go on gimme a saturday morning laugh before I go out on my push bike, what's your monthly food spend again?

I think the probs now is most folks think like corporates and they see 'transit as welfare' :wanker:

it's all in the planning :P

 

Screenshot_2021-05-29_06-58-58.png

Someone should send that to the anti-LTN folk. They've retrofitted that scheme on the left to old neighbourhoods built like the one on the right [for cars only]. Guess what happens to the roads round the edge?

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1 hour ago, Sucralose Ray Leonard said:

Do you struggle to get to work on time

why bother 'working' when you can make so much money from a PC thanks to central bank policies :P YMMV

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11 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

Thought exercise:

If you wanted to halve the number of cars in the UK, without simply increasing taxation as that will see you voted out of office, then how would you do that?

Make the creation of money, from thin air  a hanging offence.

?

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The Generation Game
11 hours ago, SNACR said:

I’ve been to look at a Merc EQC. Interestingly they seem to acknowledge their pikey customer demographic as you can order it in a colour called Caravansite blue.

It's a sense of freedom that you don't get with other EVs. 

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Democorruptcy

They could greatly reduce the number of cars on the road by not granting driving licences to people with a newly found medical issue. Perhaps something that can surface spontaneously, due to a medical trial they joined?

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The Generation Game
8 hours ago, Great Guy said:

Petrol is a fair but more expensive on an island... it obviously has to be shipped over in a ferry. It definitely gives EVs a nudge towards being the better option.

They'll be a tax haven wearing knee-length shorts before you know it. 

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Popuplights
8 hours ago, QP1 said:

We have a gen 1 Leaf as the 'housewife' s car. Bought it second hand three years ago. Battery has degraded a bit (8 bars out of 12 now), but it is perfect for majority of our driving needs, carting the kids around, local days out, shopping, gym, etc. 

Very nice to drive and so far minimal maintenance costs, tires, replacement 12v battery and cheap annual service. 

We have a garage to charge it in and there are a few free charging points around the town and some paid faster chargers but rarely need to use them. 

I have family in the UK with a tesla which they managed to take on a road trip to Switzerland. Took some planning and some nerves but they managed it without issues. 

For those fortunate enough with a place to charge them, I think EVs are increasingly a viable option. Of course, years of mass immigration and discouraging the building of houses with garages or adequate parking means few in the UK are in that fortunate position. 

The perfect use case for such a vehicle.

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49 minutes ago, BWW said:

Why on earth do none of them create a car with big cylindrical batteries that can slide out and be replaced with charged ones at a filling station. I know they're big but you either have muscly youth giving service or a mechanical contraption.

Doesn't seem like it's fancy tech or original idea [it's just a bigger AA battery]. Perhaps that's the problem.

I think the problem with removable batteries is you might get landed with a dud one... if I've spent £5k on a massive battery I'm no going to swap it with one from the local garage...

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8 hours ago, QP1 said:

We have a gen 1 Leaf as the 'housewife' s car. Bought it second hand three years ago. Battery has degraded a bit (8 bars out of 12 now), but it is perfect for majority of our driving needs, carting the kids around, local days out, shopping, gym, etc. 

It can only be a matter of time before you can replace old batteries in an EV...

A petrol car generally gets scrapped at about 15 years. Since electric motors last forever I can see an EV lasting decades longer...

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50 minutes ago, nirvana said:

why bother 'working' when you can make so much money from a PC thanks to central bank policies :P YMMV

"Do you work from home and want to save money, even if due to central bank policies you are rolling in the moolah? Then you need the new patented Reeves & Mortimor Bath Bike, with the optional extras of a laptop tray and Turbo trainer Dynamo!

Forget about needing to turn your old boiler on, or get used to not being allowed to use a condensing boiler in time for another ill thought out government 'Green' policy, by heating the bath water and charging your laptop at the same time.

That's right, through the ancient art of excercise, you can achieve all of your dreams at the same time.

Say goodbye to that fat arse and spare tyre, and hello to knackered knees and a reduced sperm count instead.

By the end of your working day, your bath should be a nice tepid room temperature, ready to soothe away your leathered scrotum and sandpapered starfish."

 

 

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9 hours ago, whitevanman said:

I don't think it's being enforced

Sadly true, but when someone causes some sort of high profile accident one one things might change.

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swiss_democracy_for_all
3 hours ago, nirvana said:

hold on man, you don't need a lot of leccy to charge an ebike

the future for urban delivery should be an electric cargo bike!

everyone's looking at it from the wrong POV IMHO :P

rather than lugging your fat arse around in a fat ecar you should be going for the lightweight ebikes

How many bananas can you get in there? xD

AND they are only expensive cos the fecking governments are interfering in markets with subsidies! Look what happened to solar panel price when they stopped the leccy producers doing deals for the rich at the expense of increased costs for the rest of the plebs o.O

 

Gear-URBAN-ARROW%C2%A9-Family-Performance-CX-Shimano-Zee-3.jpg

I honestly wouldn’t mind, but where d’you think I could keep that?  Or any expensive bike? The bike room for our apartment block is about one third the size it needs to be to cater for everyone, and not very secure. 

Edit : post workers and other delivery staff all using cargo e-bikes in Geneva, and have been doing so for years.

Edited by swiss_democracy_for_all
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whitevanman
14 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

It can only be a matter of time before you can replace old batteries in an EV...

A petrol car generally gets scrapped at about 15 years. Since electric motors last forever I can see an EV lasting decades longer...

That certainly isn't the case for a Tesla!

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9 hours ago, Great Guy said:

I find it interesting comparing the price of electricity to petrol per kWh. There are about 9 kWh in a litre of petrol. A litre is costing about £1.30 at the moment. That's about 14 pence per kWh of petrol energy. It's not much cheaper than electricity.

I'd imagine an electric motor is a lot more efficient at converting energy to  movement?

Yes the electric motor is really efficient plus you can have regenerative braking which will improve things around town. Someone here mentioned a hybrid Yaris. About the same MPG as the non hybrid version on the motorway but abut 15 MPG better around town. The thermodynamic efficiency of the petrol engine is pretty bad, the diesel a bit better.

However, I'd reckon that the overall efficiency, from oil well to the wheel, of an electrically powered vehicle is not much different from an ICE powered vehicle. The ICE powered vehicle has the big losses on board whereas the EV spreads the losses between the power station, the power transmission system, the charging system and the losses due to the battery.

Any apparent fuel cost savings is purely down to tax.

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4 hours ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

Interesting. I wonder if the chargers are any good? (Have heard that non-Tesla chargers are often crap and broken all the time) 

Also are ICE cars banned from parking next to them yet? That step can’t be far away. 

I suspect that the charger situation is the same as phone chargers twenty years ago. Every manufacurer had their own versions whereas today they are all USB. You couldn't sell a phone with a non USB charger these days.

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1 hour ago, nickc said:

Make the creation of money, from thin air  a hanging offence.

?

The penelties are pretty serious unless you call yourself something like government or central bank.

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Yadda yadda yadda

Can't say I've seen many lamppost car chargers in my part of London. There are a few roadside chargers that look like bollards. It must depend a lot on the area. Here most people able to afford an electric car will have off road parking. There are a few houses where people have installed their own chargers. No-one in the council estates will be able to afford one and if they could wouldn't buy one. I'd have to destroy my front garden if I wanted an electric car.

In more upmarket areas without off-street parking I'm sure good electric infrastructure is being installed.

I managed to stomach five minutes of that original video. If that bloke really cared about the environment he would only have the one car.

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