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Is it time for the Vietnam & South east asia covid tsunami


WorkingPoor
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WorkingPoor
Posted (edited)

They have been holding it back for 15 months with incredibly draconian isolationist policy.

Now the covid outbreak in vietnam tonight has been described by the UN as the worst most rapid outbreak the world has ever seen.

China is sending in millions of vaccines.

Is it time for the "we're doing just fine" big 4 Vietnam Cambodia Laos & Thailand to experience the real deal? 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-thailand-vietnam-border-amber-list-b1860009.html

Edited by WorkingPoor
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Bkkandrew
Posted (edited)

There have been no tourists entering Cambodia for well over a year. Tourist Visas are banned. Business visas are limited. There are no direct flights to anywhere even close to Europe, let alone the UK.

 

So I fail to see what relevance to us there is of decisions of corrupt politicians in a failed state like the UK?

Edited by Bkkandrew
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Bien Pensant
1 minute ago, wherebee said:

The Australian press has been building up Indonesia as a disaster zone for a month, with headlines such as '90% of covid infections in Indonesia undetected'.

They get very annoyed when commentators point out the lack of bodies in the streets suggesting that if you don't know there is a pandemic unless you get tested, there probably is not a dangerous pandemic.

Only one thing to do - invade and secure the Straits of Malacca, the Sunda Strait and the Lombok Strait for humanitarian reasons.

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Bkkandrew
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, wherebee said:

The Australian press has been building up Indonesia as a disaster zone for a month, with headlines such as '90% of covid infections in Indonesia undetected'.

They get very annoyed when commentators point out the lack of bodies in the streets suggesting that if you don't know there is a pandemic unless you get tested, there probably is not a dangerous pandemic.

In Cambodia there is a tradition of erecting a large marquee at the front of your house to hold a funeral. It is very annoying, blocking roads and even access to neighbours!

This has the additional effect of it being entirely obvious whose family has had a death and what the overall death rate is. 2020 (and 21 even more so) has stood out as particularly poor years for funeral tent purveyors.

Edited by Bkkandrew
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WorkingPoor
Posted (edited)

Spared for Months, Vietnam Faces a Wave of New Infections

The nation has prided itself on containing the coronavirus. But an outbreak at a church in Ho Chi Minh City and the emergence of a deadly new variant suggest its luck may be running out.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/02/world/asia/vietnam-covid-ho-chi-minh.html

Vietnam is now officially entering the pandemic,” Tran Van Phuc, a doctor who posts frequently about the virus, wrote on Facebook. “The next 12 months will be the most difficult in controlling the number of infections so as not to overwhelm the health system and limit the number of deaths.”

Dr. Phuc said the country’s low rate of vaccinations combined with the new outbreaks place Vietnam in the position that many countries faced early last year.

Edited by WorkingPoor
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3 hours ago, wherebee said:

The Australian press has been building up Indonesia as a disaster zone for a month, with headlines such as '90% of covid infections in Indonesia undetected'.

They get very annoyed when commentators point out the lack of bodies in the streets suggesting that if you don't know there is a pandemic unless you get tested, there probably is not a dangerous pandemic.

Is it all just a practice run?

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Stinky Wizzleteats
4 hours ago, wherebee said:

The Australian press has been building up Indonesia as a disaster zone for a month, with headlines such as '90% of covid infections in Indonesia undetected'.

They get very annoyed when commentators point out the lack of bodies in the streets suggesting that if you don't know there is a pandemic unless you get tested, there probably is not a dangerous pandemic.

That happened here too, at the very beginning. I remember very clearly my last visit to the gym, hearing the news on the TV. X thousand cases had been reported, but it is suspected that tens of thousands more people could already have had it. Said in very grave tones.

But thats great news, I thought- most people who get coronavirus don't even know they've had it.

Tried to explain that to friend and family to blank faces. Seems some people just want a disaster! Maybe we're all too bored and are desperate for a bit of excitement.

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ashestoashes
4 hours ago, Bien Pensant said:

Only one thing to do - invade and secure the Straits of Malacca, the Sunda Strait and the Lombok Strait for humanitarian reasons.

Typical straight man thinking

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Bornagain

Sooner or later, every country in the world will reach a point where this new virus gets a grip.

When this happens the old, ill, fat and vulnerable will become ill and a lot of them will die.

The actual number of deaths will depend on the age and health of the population.

There is no avoiding this.

Vaccines will probably reduce the deaths due to the disease, but as we have seen in the west the current vaccines have problems of their own and will damage/kill people who would not have been harmed by the virus.

Which option (vaccinate or not) is the less of two evils ? - at the moment nobody really knows.

People simply have to pay their money and take their choice. 

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sleepwello'nights
15 minutes ago, Bornagain said:

 

When this happens the old, ill, fat and vulnerable will become ill and a lot of them will die.

The actual number of deaths will depend on the age and health of the population.

There is no avoiding this.

Vaccines will probably reduce the deaths due to the disease, but as we have seen in the west the current vaccines have problems of their own and will damage/kill people who would not have been harmed by the virus.

Which option (vaccinate or not) is the less of two evils ? - at the moment nobody really knows.

People simply have to pay their money and take their choice. 

Err, isn't this what happens even without a novel new virus pandemic?

Arguably all the pandemic has done is pull some deaths of the old and ill forward a few months. The excess death statistics seem to bear this out, certainly in the UK.

Excess deaths in Sweden and Ireland "tell an interesting tale"   https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/213542-michigan-value-investor/5497123-excess-deaths-in-sweden-and-ireland-tell-interesting-tale

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Wight Flight
10 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

Err, isn't this what happens even without a novel new virus pandemic?

Arguably all the pandemic has done is pull some deaths of the old and ill forward a few months. The excess death statistics seem to bear this out, certainly in the UK.

Excess deaths in Sweden and Ireland "tell an interesting tale"   https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/213542-michigan-value-investor/5497123-excess-deaths-in-sweden-and-ireland-tell-interesting-tale

Yes.

How many that died in the 1st wave last year would have been alive now if covid hadn't happened?

Not many I guess.

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Bornagain
3 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Yes.

How many that died in the 1st wave last year would have been alive now if covid hadn't happened?

Not many I guess.

When it was kicking off last year I assume that the people who died would have been dead anyway by the end of the year.

However, the hard numbers suggest that this is not the case. If you look at the ONS death stats (below) you will see that we had about 79,000 extra deaths last year, and we have had an excess of deaths so far in 2021.

This implies that a lot of those people who have died would normally still be alive today if they had not been infected.

The question for me is what kind of life did the victims have - I rather suspect that a lot of those people were probably sat in old peoples homes slowly rotting away - for a significant proportion death will have been a relief.

In my eyes it is important to have a good death just before my life becomes a burden, but in our society we are not allowed to talk about this issue - yet it is one that a lot of us face at some time or another.

 

image.thumb.png.2f67cabe3230a445f4f04e5a5ce47d22.png

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onlyme
16 minutes ago, MrPin said:

Surely part of it can be attributed to a boom in the population, in the 1920s?

We have no idea what the population is now, 10 million out would not be a surprise, although fair slant towards younger age group in the unknown number.

Also from the table above quite possible there has been 10 lean years in terms of deaths, that age trends would suggest that number year on year would normally have been expected to increase. Yes you can treat individual diseases / conditions and extend life but (at the moment) there's no reversing there clock that makes you more susceptible and frail over time.

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Popuplights
24 minutes ago, Bornagain said:

it is important to have a good death just before my life becomes a burden, but in our society we are not allowed to talk about this issue -

Amen to that. I helped my Dad get what he wanted at the end. I have already talked to my Daughter about it. 

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Yadda yadda yadda
5 hours ago, WorkingPoor said:

It is time.

I've only just realised that you are Klaus Schwab. The username is a great piss take, I didn't know you had a sense of humour.

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sleepwello'nights
14 minutes ago, Bornagain said:

When it was kicking off last year I assume that the people who died would have been dead anyway by the end of the year.

However, the hard numbers suggest that this is not the case. If you look at the ONS death stats (below) you will see that we had about 79,000 extra deaths last year, and we have had an excess of deaths so far in 2021.

This implies that a lot of those people who have died would normally still be alive today if they had not been infected.

The question for me is what kind of life did the victims have - I rather suspect that a lot of those people were probably sat in old peoples homes slowly rotting away - for a significant proportion death will have been a relief.

In my eyes it is important to have a good death just before my life becomes a burden, but in our society we are not allowed to talk about this issue - yet it is one that a lot of us face at some time or another.

 

image.thumb.png.2f67cabe3230a445f4f04e5a5ce47d22.png

The increase can partly be attributed to deaths caused by the lock down measures. How many died because of curtailment of medical treatment, or suicide. There is also speculation that the success of flu vaccines in previous years allowed a cohort of those who would have succumbed to flu in earlier years to survive and die of covid-1984 (l like the apt name that someone posted on another thread)  

@Bien Pensantalso maintains, reasonably, that discharging hospital patients from older age groups into care homes spread the disease to a vulnerable population and caused a greater number of deaths than would otherwise have been the case. 

I can't go along with the concept that this is a deadly pandemic at all. As is asked "where are the bodies in the street?"

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Yadda yadda yadda
28 minutes ago, Bornagain said:

When it was kicking off last year I assume that the people who died would have been dead anyway by the end of the year.

However, the hard numbers suggest that this is not the case. If you look at the ONS death stats (below) you will see that we had about 79,000 extra deaths last year, and we have had an excess of deaths so far in 2021.

This implies that a lot of those people who have died would normally still be alive today if they had not been infected.

The question for me is what kind of life did the victims have - I rather suspect that a lot of those people were probably sat in old peoples homes slowly rotting away - for a significant proportion death will have been a relief.

In my eyes it is important to have a good death just before my life becomes a burden, but in our society we are not allowed to talk about this issue - yet it is one that a lot of us face at some time or another.

 

image.thumb.png.2f67cabe3230a445f4f04e5a5ce47d22.png

Are those figures for England? Perhaps England and Wales. If just England they imply the official UK population will be reaching 70m around about now. 5m Scotland, 3m Wales and 1.8m NI.

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Democorruptcy
52 minutes ago, Bornagain said:

If you look at the ONS death stats (below) you will see that we had about 79,000 extra deaths last year, and we have had an excess of deaths so far in 2021.

This implies that a lot of those people who have died would normally still be alive today if they had not been infected.

Do you work in the NHS?

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Bornagain
1 minute ago, Democorruptcy said:

Do you work in the NHS?

Nope.

I worked for very big pharma for 25 yrs - but in manufacturing.

I am an Engineer, and just like the stereotype I am interested in numbers and cold hard data from which I like to draw my own conclusions.

For what its worth, I firmly believe that a new virus has got loose within the population and has killed a lot of the old, ill, fat and vulnerable.

Sooner or later this was inevitable  and similar events will continue to happen for ever.

I think the governments response is flawed in may ways and could best be described as hysterical.

I believe that a lot of what has gone on can be explained by the government simply trying to dig itself out of a hole without losing too much credibility. After all, in another few years there will be an election to win.

 

 

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Democorruptcy
1 minute ago, Bornagain said:

Nope.

I worked for very big pharma for 25 yrs - but in manufacturing.

I am an Engineer, and just like the stereotype I am interested in numbers and cold hard data from which I like to draw my own conclusions.

For what its worth, I firmly believe that a new virus has got loose within the population and has killed a lot of the old, ill, fat and vulnerable.

Sooner or later this was inevitable  and similar events will continue to happen for ever.

I think the governments response is flawed in may ways and could best be described as hysterical.

I believe that a lot of what has gone on can be explained by the government simply trying to dig itself out of a hole without losing too much credibility. After all, in another few years there will be an election to win.

OK. I only asked because associating every excess to covid seems bizarre when so many NHS appointments and procedures have been missed. I could only imagine a blinkered NHS worker thinking that.

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Bornagain
12 minutes ago, Democorruptcy said:

OK. I only asked because associating every excess to covid seems bizarre when so many NHS appointments and procedures have been missed. I could only imagine a blinkered NHS worker thinking that.

I by no means believe that all the deaths are the direct result of the disease, but I accept that a lot of them are....

The long and short of it is that there is so much at stake for so many people that we will never really know the truth.

Far too many vested interests.

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Chewing Grass
1 hour ago, MrPin said:

Surely part of it can be attributed to a boom in the population, in the 1920s?

Surely you mean 1950s.

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