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What is the element of power that allows them to be believed?


Loki
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I don't think I'm speaking out of turn when I say most on here agree that COVID is just the latest in a never-ending series of outright lies by TPTB.

I've been struggling with this for a while.  Even on here there are some that don't believe it, but go along with the requirements.  Same difference, ultimately.

Is it the scale of the entity behind the lies?  If it was a person telling you this nonsense for 18 months, you'd have cut all contact.

Is it the method of telling the lies? As above, if it was two people it would be an abusive relationship

Is it conditioning? I am leaning towards this but then it becomes circular, what is it about the conditioning that makes it so invulnerable to logic, reason, and your own "lying eyes"

I don't even think it's the geniuses at the nudge unit as most of their work is pathetically obvious and laughable, unless they operate on two levels. 

 

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Bedrag Justesen
19 minutes ago, Loki said:

Is it conditioning? 

It begins at school.

By the time they come out of Uni most are lost.

Then the media lights their path.

The generation that lived through two world wars knew to believe half of what you see, some and none of what you hear.

The children of the sixties and seventies lost this wisdom as every runner won a medal.

Generation Z are the new punks.

It's such a shame that they all look the same.

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1 minute ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

It begins at school.

By the time they come out of Uni most are lost.

Then the media lights their path.

The generation that lived through two world wars knew to believe half of what you see, some and none of what you hear.

The children of the sixties and seventies lost this wisdom as every runner won a medal.

Generation Z are the new punks.

It's such a shame that they all look the same.

I agree, so what is it about people like us who went through exactly the same schooling etc, that are resistant to the lies and propaganda?  

 

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23rdian
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Byron said:

Lets get this straight.

Are you claiming that there is no such thing as Covid 19?

Whatever *it* is, I think the OPs point stands regardless of whether it actually exists or not.

I also think it's just one of the "common messages" pushed onto us. Albeit a biggy, meaning that more people his time have questioned the narrative.

 

Edited by 23rdian
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Bedrag Justesen
2 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Now everyone must get the virus "for the greater good" and so we will be saved.

Vaccine.  :)

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Don Coglione
Just now, Bedrag Justesen said:

Vaccine.  :)

Perhaps he was right the first time?

Perhaps he's in on it...

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Bedrag Justesen
8 minutes ago, Loki said:

I agree, so what is it about people like us who went through exactly the same schooling etc, that are resistant to the lies and propaganda?  

We embrace different lies and propaganda.

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Frank Hovis
11 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

Vaccine.  :)

Edited, but the effect is probably the same!

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InLikeFlynn
1 hour ago, Loki said:

I don't think I'm speaking out of turn when I say most on here agree that COVID is just the latest in a never-ending series of outright lies by TPTB.

 

 

Not sure that everyone on here thinks Covid is an outright lie. Only the tinfoil-hat brigade.

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InLikeFlynn
35 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I would say with Covid that there has been an effective conspiracy, though they wouldn't think of it in that way themselves, between the government, councils, NHS and the media to push a common message on Covid because they think that it is "for the greater good" if people all believe that common massage and act appropriately upon it.

 

 

I think that's closer to the truth.

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JoeDavola

Two things IMO:

1. Appeal to Authority - i.e. trusting someone just because that are a scientist or a doctor, as if such people have never been wrong or never lied.

2. Too Big a Lie - this is an idea I've only come up with over the last 6 months, and I'm sure there's a 'proper' name for it, but basically if you tell a lie big enough for long enough it is beyond people's comprehension that it might be a lie. Also kind of ties in to appeal to authority, that the 'science never lies', but I think people ironically would have been more skeptical of a 3 week lockdown than they are now of an 18 month one.

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54 minutes ago, InLikeFlynn said:

Not sure that everyone on here thinks Covid is an outright lie. Only the tinfoil-hat brigade.

Yeah I should have phrased it better

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Two things IMO:

1. Appeal to Authority - i.e. trusting someone just because that are a scientist or a doctor, as if such people have never been wrong or never lied.

2. Too Big a Lie - this is an idea I've only come up with over the last 6 months, and I'm sure there's a 'proper' name for it, but basically if you tell a lie big enough for long enough it is beyond people's comprehension that it might be a lie. Also kind of ties in to appeal to authority, that the 'science never lies', but I think people ironically would have been more skeptical of a 3 week lockdown than they are now of an 18 month one.

Good point, I wonder if it is an abuse of people's "need to believe", the bigger the better

Edited by Loki
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Don Coglione
1 minute ago, Loki said:

Good point, I wonder if it is an abuse of people's "need to believe", the bigger the better

The greatest trick the Devil pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist.

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1 hour ago, Loki said:

I agree, so what is it about people like us who went through exactly the same schooling etc, that are resistant to the lies and propaganda?  

 

On this question, I'd suggest you have a look at the work of Jonathan Haidt. Basically, there are hard wired personality differences between (American definitions) Liberals, Conservatives and Libertarians. The broad ethos of the people here is Libertarian in nature and such people (very much a minority in the wider population) tend to be more questioning and less dogmatic. They have the openess to ideas that is characterised by the left and the requirement for order, disipline and truth characterised by the right. They also rely on reasoning rather than emotion.

This is worth 15 minutes of your time.

 

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12 minutes ago, Don Coglione said:

The greatest trick the Devil pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist.

God's also using the same trick. xD

Maybe they're the same bipolar entity. xD

"Make them wear masks, but only ineffective face coverings." xD

"We're all in it together, we apologise for our transgressions." xD

"Have this vaccine, that's more risk to you than covid, to protect the vulnerable who are also vaxxed." xD

 

In 100 years there will be rememberance day where people wear a poppy face covering in support of those who suffered. aka 'The Ermintrude' xD

 

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Conniption

What is the element of power that allows them to be believed?

The desire of the believer to submit to a childlike state of being cared for by mother government.

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The Grey Man
Posted (edited)

All bullies require submission. They rely on fear. Some bullies are influential and powerful, arguably too big to take on alone.

Based on opinion, there are differences into how much shit, lies or coercion will take among differing generations.

Last year it appeared briefly we were heading for societal collapse. A 2 percent death rate. We got the fear factor that ultimately let in the 300 odd page fear factor. The COVID ACT.

A few weeks in, reading the back story of potential origins, the likely difficulty of producing an effective vaxxine for a known  changeable family of virus, the economic impact, the real at risk groups, many started to question things.

The relaxation of rules last summer had an effect of being abusive, freedom for good behaviour only for it to be removed by dirty rulebreakers as we were told. Punishment. This has then gone on repeat mode. Most have long been pissed off with the situation and acquiese. This includes many whom would question the situation before.

That mindset worries me. As such folk have a vested psychological interest in backing up their previously opposed beliefs, arguably becoming the biggest cheerleaders against those that dont or wont join. 

The planned diametric views/proposed plans pumped out by the press from the government is vital in keeping fear via uncertainty. Mandatory vaxx or not at work for instance. Kids vaxxes as a few examples.

There are more subtle versions of this at play in announcements with good cop/ bad cop routines from Shitty and Claude.

Engaging gives them, as all bullies, power. Of course they have some real power. Airports for example, but going out to the shop, talking with people? Nah.

This long term scenario is nasty. It is not just what makes compliance but what wears down others and at what point do people ever snap. How to undo this conditioning? Not by another bout of planned reverse conditioning for sure.

It would require genuine trust in government systems. Consistency of approach. The opportunity of reward not linked to some government/ social construct of bad behaviour (note this is not the same as breaking the law) and punishment.

It is not going to happen anytime soon. The bullies like their power and financial enrichment, do your best to create your own world, social group and psychological distractions. Long term exposure and emeshment with their thinking will do you more harm than them, them being the government.

Edited by The Grey Man
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Ianb78
2 hours ago, InLikeFlynn said:

Not sure that everyone on here thinks Covid is an outright lie. Only the tinfoil-hat brigade.

You keep believing mate. Make sure you don’t trip over all the corpses in the street 😂👍

Just remember to keep trusting the government and wear your face nappy like a good little bitch 

 

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I'm wondering how much of this is payback for the 2008 Occupy Movement.

There's fuck all that the woke are doing that goes against the best interests of the elites.

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2 hours ago, Conniption said:

What is the element of power that allows them to be believed?

The desire of the believer to submit to a childlike state of being cared for by mother government.

Bitty is powerful. xD

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