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Fermented foods.(not booze)


swiss_democracy_for_all
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swiss_democracy_for_all

I want to try introducing fermented foods into my diet to see if they help with my gut inflammation. 

Any advice regarding the most palatable and effective ones? No fermented shark (a disgusting thing from Iceland) for me. 

I want to know how to avoid faux-healthfoods too, I’d guess these fermented foods will have many commercial equivalents which don’t have the same effects.  Any tips about buying online welcome too, because health food shops in Switzerland are ludicrously expensive. 

Thanks in advance to all for any advice. 

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Check out the Zero Carb sub on Reddit. Lots of anecdotes about the carnivore diet sorting out gut problems like ibs etc.

The first 5 weeks of not eating plant food can be tricky. When the bowels are used to getting fibre, it produces extra liquid to compensate. No fibre = too much liquid until the bowels adjust. During the time it takes for your body to adapt, never trust a fart.

With me, early on, any falling off the ZC wagon meant bad guts for a few days. Similar to having too much beer  on a weekend, it's half a week for the guts to recover. About a year in, I could eat a bit of plant food, like a pastie from Greggs without ill effect every other month. (Being ZC when out and about isn't that easy.)

I've been ZC for 3 years now and when out with family can eat a full  English breakfast no problem as long as it doesn't happen that often.

Some of the carnivores are into fermented meat. There's a progression for some of 1) cooked meat 2) raw meat 3) fermented (ie. rancid) meat. I'm staying at 1) apart from frozen raw liver pills taken in place of multi vitamins.

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steppensheep

Boring one, but it's easy to make your own joghurt in these temperatures. I like to think it's a bit more active than ones from the supermarket shelf. Couple of spoons of joghurt in a glass of milk, seal with cling film, leave out for a couple of days. Give it a little tip to see if it's setting. If you see air pockets starting to develop, consume or refrigerate.

 

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The Grey Man

⁹My bowel has a mind of its own. There is science in that!

The lactobacillus plus yogurts work for a flare up of my GI system. I compared against supermarket basics. Tend to need two or three to the one specialist version to help.

For me, the meat bit fine. But tons of fat sets me off. Annoying.

For acute issues, I buy bulk loperamide from abroad.

Generic cheapo lactobacillus rich yoghurt drinks are ok. I think they match the brand names in effectiveness.

Buscopan...hyoscine butylbromide helps for spasms but I rarely find it cheap.

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Roger_Mellie

I think Kefir is the usual recommendation to get started isn't it, I got a really good kefir culture going pre-keto. 

Someone at work gave me a link a few weeks back to a fermented foods website, a lot of it looked quite interesting but I've lost the link! 

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JoeDavola

I did tell you about natto a while back @swiss_democracy_for_all. And I remember you being disgusted :D

Fermeted soybeans and the highest source of vitamin K2. You'll need to find an asian supermarket though to buy it.

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Shamone

Sauerkraut is easy to make. I also partake of apple cider vinegar with the Mother.

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swiss_democracy_for_all
35 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

I did tell you about natto a while back @swiss_democracy_for_all. And I remember you being disgusted :D

Fermeted soybeans and the highest source of vitamin K2. You'll need to find an asian supermarket though to buy it.

True but I seem to remember your description being unpleasant, it was as if you were forcing yourself to eat it for the perceived health benefits. I was hoping to find a few things I could enjoy eating. However sometimes it is possible to "train" yourself to like something, so perhaps I'll give it a go.

30 minutes ago, Shamone said:

Sauerkraut is easy to make. I also partake of apple cider vinegar with the Mother.

Yeah, lazy bastard that I am, I was hoping to buy stuff. Don't mind cooking from fresh ingredients, I do that almost every day, I suppose it's fairly instant gratification, however the faff of putting things in jars for them to ferment (and the space issue, I live in a Genevan apartment) and remembering to eat them a few days later seems like a PITA to me. 

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Shamone
17 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

True but I seem to remember your description being unpleasant, it was as if you were forcing yourself to eat it for the perceived health benefits. I was hoping to find a few things I could enjoy eating. However sometimes it is possible to "train" yourself to like something, so perhaps I'll give it a go.

Yeah, lazy bastard that I am, I was hoping to buy stuff. Don't mind cooking from fresh ingredients, I do that almost every day, I suppose it's fairly instant gratification, however the faff of putting things in jars for them to ferment (and the space issue, I live in a Genevan apartment) and remembering to eat them a few days later seems like a PITA to me. 

I think most of the shop-bought sauerkraut is pasteurised so no good. It’s very easy to make, just salt and white cabbage, I leave the jar under the sink. I just eat a little bit as medicine.

8976F8D9-E0DC-4B09-92C9-3922482E878F.jpeg

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JoeDavola
25 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

True but I seem to remember your description being unpleasant, it was as if you were forcing yourself to eat it for the perceived health benefits. I was hoping to find a few things I could enjoy eating.

Oh no I do genuinely enjoy it - though that doesn't mean you would!

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With a crooked smile
1 hour ago, Shamone said:

Sauerkraut is easy to make

Sauerkraut is amazing! 

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Dogtania

I have a shot of fire cider most days (herbs etc steeped in apple cider vinegar - needs to be "with the mother" think it's sterile if not).  Have found I never have heart burn nowadays which may be connected.

Kimchi one thing I've started to really like. Maybe not a 'beginner' fermented food, as the smell can at first seem slightly stinky but I don't think massively so.  It's fermented Chinese cabbage eaten as a staple in Korea.  I think it's meant to be pretty healthy although may be correlated with slight increase in stomach cancer in Koreans iirc they eat by the ton I think though).  Haven't made my own but someone I know makes and have the recipe, not hard but a few more ingredients than saurkraut I think.... Need Chinese/ Asian ingredients.  Recently been buying from Sainsbury's it's the fresh stuff full of three living bugs etc (there is a jar of saurkraut next to it but not tried yet).

Keffir, really want to try making again.  Seems very easy.  I bought the starter but froze and couldn't get it to go after thawing out.  Like the idea you can use yellow label discounted milk as the ingredient.

Kumbucha - fermented tea- you can buy quite widely in the UK now, seems expensive and is much cheaper to make yourself.  I think it's quite refreshing and with the store bought different flavours like earl grey I really enjoy.  The home made stuff I've tried is ok but find a bit strong, maybe not beginner stuff.  Probably not tried enough though.  It's also pretty corrosive on the teeth and I think pretty sugury even after fermentation

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Roger_Mellie
18 minutes ago, Dogtania said:

I have a shot of fire cider most days (herbs etc steeped in apple cider vinegar - needs to be "with the mother" think it's sterile if not).  Have found I never have heart burn nowadays which may be connected.

Kimchi one thing I've started to really like. Maybe not a 'beginner' fermented food, as the smell can at first seem slightly stinky but I don't think massively so.  It's fermented Chinese cabbage eaten as a staple in Korea.  I think it's meant to be pretty healthy although may be correlated with slight increase in stomach cancer in Koreans iirc they eat by the ton I think though).  Haven't made my own but someone I know makes and have the recipe, not hard but a few more ingredients than saurkraut I think.... Need Chinese/ Asian ingredients.  Recently been buying from Sainsbury's it's the fresh stuff full of three living bugs etc (there is a jar of saurkraut next to it but not tried yet).

Keffir, really want to try making again.  Seems very easy.  I bought the starter but froze and couldn't get it to go after thawing out.  Like the idea you can use yellow label discounted milk as the ingredient.

Kumbucha - fermented tea- you can buy quite widely in the UK now, seems expensive and is much cheaper to make yourself.  I think it's quite refreshing and with the store bought different flavours like earl grey I really enjoy.  The home made stuff I've tried is ok but find a bit strong, maybe not beginner stuff.  Probably not tried enough though.  It's also pretty corrosive on the teeth and I think pretty sugury even after fermentation

Kim Chi is fucking horrible. That's about all I've got to say on itB|

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43 minutes ago, Dogtania said:

I have a shot of fire cider most days (herbs etc steeped in apple cider vinegar - needs to be "with the mother" think it's sterile if not).  Have found I never have heart burn nowadays which may be connected.

Apple Cider Vinegar, although acidic, has the effect of increasing alkalinity in the stomach.

 

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Roger_Mellie
1 hour ago, jm51 said:

Apple Cider Vinegar, although acidic, has the effect of increasing alkalinity in the stomach.

 

How? 

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What on earth does a meat-only diet have to do with fermented foods?

 

Anyway, tofu is one of the oldest and most nutritional foods around. I guess you won't even try it @swiss_democracy_for_all because of it's made of muh soya/muh growing tits etc. But it's dirt cheap, and versatile. Sauerkraut as suggested above, or kimchi, are both goods bets. Plus kefir.

One thing to watch for with sauerkraut, try to get the German one not the "Polish" one, which is just horrid brine. A proper sauerkraut should be 10%+ white wine.

Plenty of Jap cuisine is fermented, or Korean/Chinese. Be wary of the salt content though.

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BTW, I'm not fully sold on kefir that you buy in the shops (at least here in the UK). It might be different in CH, but they're all pasteurised, homogenised here. I am not expert but I wonder if that destroys a lot of the nutritional benefits - which is why they then add in extra bacteria after.

It does feel like I'm just buying a large glorified bottle of Yakult.

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18 hours ago, spunko said:

What on earth does a meat-only diet have to do with fermented foods?

 

Anyway, tofu is one of the oldest and most nutritional foods around. I guess you won't even try it @swiss_democracy_for_all because of it's made of muh soya/muh growing tits etc. But it's dirt cheap, and versatile. Sauerkraut as suggested above, or kimchi, are both goods bets. Plus kefir.

One thing to watch for with sauerkraut, try to get the German one not the "Polish" one, which is just horrid brine. A proper sauerkraut should be 10%+ white wine.

Plenty of Jap cuisine is fermented, or Korean/Chinese. Be wary of the salt content though.

I'm not sure salt deserves the demonisation it gets. Sure it'll make you look bloated though and carry a few extra pounds of water weight..

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On 19/07/2021 at 14:19, spunko said:

What on earth does a meat-only diet have to do with fermented foods?

OP asked about fermented foods because of gut problems. ZC is known to help with gut problems.

Easy enough to check if your salt intake is ok. Dissolve half a tsp of salt in a glass of water. If your body already has enough salt, it will taste yuk salty. The more you are deficient in salt, the better it will taste. With very low salt levels, it can taste like coconut milk.

On 19/07/2021 at 13:38, Roger_Mellie said:

How? 

I don't know. I'd guess that it has something to do with the mother as no similar reports about regular vinegar.

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1 hour ago, jm51 said:

OP asked about fermented foods because of gut problems. ZC is known to help with gut problems.

Easy enough to check if your salt intake is ok. Dissolve half a tsp of salt in a glass of water. If your body already has enough salt, it will taste yuk salty. The more you are deficient in salt, the better it will taste. With very low salt levels, it can taste like coconut milk.

I don't know. I'd guess that it has something to do with the mother as no similar reports about regular vinegar.

I was going to do this but how much is a glass? Pint?

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A cup or a mug. Whatever you drink tea or coffee from.

If you need salt you'll soon know after sipping salty water. If you don't need salt, you'll know even sooner. :)

As an aside, a guy who survived for a long time adrift in an open boat said that he drank a small amount of sea water every day. The 'experts' said that's wrong. He was yeah right, I'm supposed to use salt tablets with my limited supply of drinking water.

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swiss_democracy_for_all

Not much progress with this yet.

I’ve replaced the ludicrous amounts of cream I was eating with Skyr. Haven’t found any sauerkraut here yet, “live”or pasteurized. 

Have bought some kefir from a health food shop, no idea of it’s real quality, it scores highly on Yuka, an app that many are using to assess the healthiness of foods, it’s upsetting the industrial food manufacturers which has to be a good sign. Will try that tomorrow. 

What’s the story with Apple Cider Vinegar? I’ve bought some, it’s organic and says it has never been pasteurized, is that all I need to know?

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On 18/07/2021 at 20:07, Shamone said:

Sauerkraut is easy to make. I also partake of apple cider vinegar with the Mother.

Seems a bit rude to exclude your Dad.

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