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dgul

Turns out that I'm an anti-Semite

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I read in the news today that more than 25% of the British population hold anti-Semitic views.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41241353

Quote

More than a quarter of British people hold at least one anti-Semitic view, according to a study of attitudes to Jewish people.

The Institute for Jewish Policy Research said the finding came from the largest and most detailed survey of attitudes towards Jews and Israel ever conducted in Britain.

Now, I found this a bit surprising, so I had a look at the source:

http://www.jpr.org.uk/documents/JPR.2017.Antisemitism_in_contemporary_Great_Britain.pdf

Looking into it, it turns out that thinking that it might be that ('somewhat agree') Israel is an apartheid state marks you out as an anti-Semite.

But it isn't a trivial question, and looking at the evidence, the situation of Palestinians in Israel it might be considered that 'it is an apartheid state', even if some of the measures are arguably reasonable given their security concerns (but only some).  But, nevertheless, I suppose I'm an anti-Semite now.

And what about: The state of Israel is the historic homeland of the Israeli people.  Oh, that's a complicated one.  I wouldn't like to say that it has to be, because I do know that the state of Israel didn't exist until 1948/49, and the whole area has had such a complicated historical background.   Also, it is a bit of a funny question, as Israeli's are, by definition, people who come from the state of Israel, irrespective of religion/culture, each of whom might have different 'historic homelands'.  Oh, unless they're only talking about Jewish Israelis (which then takes us back to the whole 'treatment of Palestinians in Israel' and the apartheid question).  But I've questioned the question, so I'm an anti-Semite until I can show otherwise.

I don't know.  See, I want to say something like 'some of my best friends are Jews', but you know, I don't even see Jewishness.  They're just people.   Maybe, on occasion, someone I know will say something like 'i was at the synagogue the other day' and I'll think 'oh...' and then forget about it*.  It certainly doesn't impact on the way I think of people, employment prospects, whether I think it is okay to rough them up, etc.  Actually, I think the same about most people/groups; although some have distinguishing features that mark them out (women, say), I still don't want to rough them up or not give them employment, etc.

But aren't I allowed to criticise (or merely question) a country for its internal policies?  And now I'm thinking -- why has the Institute for Jewish Policy Research done research that headlines 'a third of British hold anti-Semitic views' when I'm not sure that the research shows it (although I'd agree that their results show that about 5% are strongly anti-Semetic, but that is a different point that they didn't headline with).  Now I'm thinking 'are they trying to make a point' which is starting to take me down the line of 'Some official Jewish organisations seem to be engaged in propaganda activities'... Christ**, i'm definitely looking anti-Semitic now...

[* although I do note a very strange phenomenon.  People I know in the UK as just being 'normal' (well, sounds a bit prejudicial, but let's say 'people who don't seem to have any interesting aspects about them other than their own personality') go off to the USA and suddenly become 'Jewish'.  I'm sure that they're not intimidated to show their faith in the UK; I think it is to do with people in the USA needing to affiliate themselves with a group or some such.  I do wonder if this is the root cause of much of the racism etc that you get in the USA]

[** God, now I really am in trouble]

 

 

 

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So the survey is deliberately conflating views about Israel with views about Jews so that to hold an anti-Israel view means that you are anti-semitic.

I don't see having no issue with Jews whilst having plenty of issues with Israel as incompatible.

As it happens I mostly agree with Israle but I wouldn't assume that someone who didn't was in any way anti-semitic.

It's similar to Burma.  I'm all for the Burmese pushing back out the Bnagladeshi immigrants who have been carrying out atrocities upon the native Buddhist population but I wouldn't assume that somebody who didn't support this was anti-Buddhist.

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31 minutes ago, dgul said:

And what about: The state of Israel is the historic homeland of the Israeli people.

We should go and reclaim Saxony*. It's lovely. I don't know why we ever moved to this miserable wet island.

 

*And Anglesey.

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A meaningless survey with questions like this: " Jews exploit holocaust victimhood for their own purposes ". How do you answer a simple yes/no to that? Of course some Jews do, particularly those pernicious ones with power, but does the blue collar Jewish guy down the road at number 14 who just wants to get on and pay the mortgage?

 

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22 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

A meaningless survey with questions like this: " Jews exploit holocaust victimhood for their own purposes ". How do you answer a simple yes/no to that? Of course some Jews do, particularly those pernicious ones with power, but does the blue collar Jewish guy down the road at number 14 who just wants to get on and pay the mortgage?

 

Surely the proper answer to that is you cannot answer a question that is assuming that all people of this particualr religion act and think in an identical way because you do not agree with that initial premise.

If it was "A small number of Jews exploit holocaust victimhood for their own purposes" then yes I'm sure that they do; as I have know the odd Welsh person who (genuinely) still has a chip on their shoulder about Offa or whoever taking Hereford and Worcester.  "These people think they're English but really they're Welsh!"  Ffs.

Most don't because they're not all the same.

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I wouldn't lose sleep over this Dgul - the question of whether one can criticise Israel without being an anti-semite exercises the mind of Jew and gentile alike.

I've just read "The Finkler Question" by Howard Jacobson which deals with the question in depth.  I thoroughly enjoyed it, despite its unrelenting focus , as he's a very funny and warm writer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Finkler_Question

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Most Jewish people aren't loud about it, don't want to convert you, and you wouldn't notice them in a crowd. There's usually one loud one, who is more Jewish than anybody else, despite never having set foot in Stamford Hill. And tells terrible jokes, and has ginger hair.

Frankly most Muslims follow the same pattern. Except they are brown, so get noticed, unlike Bosnians, who pretty much will go unnoticed.

I'm not a Rabbi.:CryBaby:

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I have reservations about the intentions and modus operandi of various groups, religious or otherwise when they collectively power grab and use overt political patronage and media signalling which seems to be targeted to benefit their group rather than the general population. Moreover when they try to shut down any questioning of motives, intent by what most would consider less than savoury slurs I become even more untrusting of their activities.

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45 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

I want to go to Israel, always have done. It's a hard sell though!

There are some great israeli movies (sorry, I have a terrible memory for names). They have a great history (although it's sort of turned bad recently) and geography.

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I'm not an anti-semite, or am I anti anyone, by the ridiculously loose definitions used on that survey  I am though.

They are clamping down, have you heard about the anti-BDS (Boycott, Divestment and Sanction) laws in the US?

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/senate-bill-would-make-it-a-federal-crime-to-boycott-israel.html

an excerpt from that article here:

"a group of 43 Senators – 29 Republicans and 14 Democrats – want to implement a law that would make it a felony for Americans to support the international boycott against Israel, which was launched in protest of that country’s decades-old occupation of Palestine. The two primary sponsors of the bill are Democrat Ben Cardin of Maryland and Republican Rob Portman of Ohio. Perhaps the most shocking aspect is the punishment: anyone guilty of violating its prohibitions will face a minimum civil penalty of $250,000, and a maximum criminal penalty of $1 million and 20 years in prison."

Yes, a felony charge, 20 years in prison and a million dollar fine....

It could be argued that the one thing the left have got right recently is being shut down with massive amounts of force.

 

David Duke will no doubt be unpopular on here as he is in real life with many (I don't trust him totally myself) but he does a good job of dealing with Wolf Blitzer here :

 

Free speech matters, it's a major problem when it is threatened, whether it is under attack by Islam, "our" own corrupt "leaders", or Judaism, we cannot allow it to be lost.

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4 hours ago, dgul said:

... because I do know that the state of Israel didn't exist until 1948/49, and the whole area has had such a complicated historical background...

I can't take any more of your racist filth, you Jew-hating scumbag. 

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4 hours ago, dgul said:

Institute for Jewish Policy Research

Let's construct a survey that will give us the result we're looking for. Not that they have form, or anything.

It's a basic strategy: conflate any criticism of the Israeli state with anti-Semitism. And it works, mores the pity.

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They are overplaying their hand with censorial stuff like the publication of this "survey" and what they are doing with the ADL and YouTube, also the BDS law.

Good, it just makes it more obvious where their control is and what their game is.

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I heard that shite reported on the so-called BBC.  I don't know any white English folk who have these views....so it must be expressed opinions from the intolerant cough cough peace.

 

Fakee neews

 

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11 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

So the survey is deliberately conflating views about Israel with views about Jews so that to hold an anti-Israel view means that you are anti-semitic.

I don't see having no issue with Jews whilst having plenty of issues with Israel as incompatible.

As it happens I mostly agree with Israle but I wouldn't assume that someone who didn't was in any way anti-semitic.

It's similar to Burma.  I'm all for the Burmese pushing back out the Bnagladeshi immigrants who have been carrying out atrocities upon the native Buddhist population but I wouldn't assume that somebody who didn't support this was anti-Buddhist.

All surveys reported in the msm are produced to support the point of view of the organisation which produced it 

generally to identify a terrible situation which can only be helped by giving that organisation a big bag of money for more research, staff wages , 1st class flights and fancy hotels 

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