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Sowing the seeds of covid doubt


Caravan Monster
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mattydread

Thanks CM for sticking up a thought provoking thread.

I will read the above link, but trying to keep on top of this shit show with work, well being etc

Government,media & most people are dead to me - keep strong everyone!

Edited by mattydread
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Caravan Monster
13 minutes ago, LC1 said:

Ones I've tried with some success....

Why did they not encourage the use of safe treatments like hydroxychloriquine and ivermectin early on when there were no vaccines and people were dying? Doctors wanted to use them but were having their hands tied behind their backs...

We have plenty of long term safety data for treatments like HCQ and ivermection, but none for the vaccines...Why are the former dismissed despite meta-analysis showing they work, but the latter are sold to us as the only solution? Why not use both, it's not an either/or decision?

The benefits of the vaccines depend on your age and general health and whether you might have already had covid - why are we not being encouraged to consider whether the jabs are really going to be of any benefit to all the younger fitter people who have already had covid?

 

These will work for audiences that are starting to ask questions, but we have to think about those that after 18 months of MSM messaging are still in the comfortable consensus "everyone knows HCQ = stupid orange Trump (don't know why, but don't want anyone to laugh at me and I'm scared that I will die like that person I heard about)". How do we plant the brain worm there? They are still on the consensus and fear, reinforced by anecdotal 'news' stories level and at that point can only accept things on those terms. Maybe anecdotal about so and so's mother's brother's auntie who had both her jabs but got really sick with the delta strain and they thought she was going to die until this lovely doctor gave her this stuff I've never heard of called Ivermectin and some injections of things like zinc and vitamin d and she got better really quickly. 

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@Caravan Monster That first step is the hardest to make people take!

People turn off at data, so ironically it is probably heresay and anecdote that are the most powerful. 

Did you hear about that guy whose cock dropped off after the jab?! O.o

Get their attention.

Edited by LC1
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Bear Hug
50 minutes ago, Alex said:

I haven't read the article, so this isn't a comment on it one way or the other, just a related thought.

One option is to reverse the psychology. Currently the narrative is that those who have taken the vaccine are in the virtuous and safe majority. If asked about the jab, don't get defensive but instead respond from a position of assumed righteousness and superior knowledge, as though it's self-evident that you are right and "they" are wrong.

"Christ, you didn't fall for that bullshit, did you?" said with a pitying laugh. "Nobody I know who cares about their health has allowed that shit to be injected into them. Maybe you should take a break from TV propaganda for a while."

Shake your head with a wry smile and wish them the best of luck.

(Not really suitable for friends and family... I guess)

I don't get it. There is nothing "assumed" about my righteousness and superior knowledge. In fact, that all looks like a fair summary of my approach. 

Before you ask, it hasn't strengthened my friendship with most people. 

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axolotl
1 hour ago, Alex said:

I haven't read the article, so this isn't a comment on it one way or the other, just a related thought.

One option is to reverse the psychology. Currently the narrative is that those who have taken the vaccine are in the virtuous and safe majority. If asked about the jab, don't get defensive but instead respond from a position of assumed righteousness and superior knowledge, as though it's self-evident that you are right and "they" are wrong.

"Christ, you didn't fall for that bullshit, did you?" said with a pitying laugh. "Nobody I know who cares about their health has allowed that shit to be injected into them. Maybe you should take a break from TV propaganda for a while."

Shake your head with a wry smile and wish them the best of luck.

(Not really suitable for friends and family... I guess)

I would say that I've decided to allow my vaccine to be donated to a poorer country than the UK that may not have such an amazing health service as our wonderful NHS.

This will help stop the poorer country's health service from being overwhelmed and give their nurses the opportunity to practice their dance moves, just like our nurses were able to during the peak of the pandemic last year.

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Dogtania
2 hours ago, LC1 said:

@Caravan Monster That first step is the hardest to make people take!

People turn off at data, so ironically it is probably heresay and anecdote that are the most powerful. 

Did you hear about that guy whose cock dropped off after the jab?! O.o

Get their attention.

Feels a bit cruel rubbing it in or pointing it out to present jabees.  But I think over time they'll hear anyway and realise it's not all sunshine and roses.

Maybe point out the possibility of 6 monthly injections for the foreseeable.  I know there were quite a few initially who said they would get the vaccine but they weren't happy about getting boosters.

Really difficult one as seems so many either on the vax bus or are inadvertent hangers on, non paying but not willing or ready to question whether Pandora's box is right in front of them.

Maybe something about air travel and a nudge about how jabs don't equal free pass to fly.

 

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We've got a great situation to chat about at the moment.

We've had a covid wave.  It came along when most people weren't particularly obeying the instructions.  Then we had relaxation of lockdown and it immediately went away.

Surely that should make people think?  Did it always 'just go away on its own', and we fooled ourselves into thinking it was distancing and masks etc?

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The Masked Tulip

Unfortunately, I can't see anything other than serious illness or death making people I know even begin to question what is happening. It is going to take the deaths and serious illness of their jabbed loved ones. 

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Wight Flight
2 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

Unfortunately, I can't see anything other than serious illness or death making people I know even begin to question what is happening. It is going to take the deaths and serious illness of their jabbed loved ones. 

Sad but I think true. And by hiding the current situation, the media are complicit.

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The Masked Tulip
1 minute ago, Wight Flight said:

Sad but I think true. And by hiding the current situation, the media are complicit.

 

Many are fully paid up members of the cult. It is an ideology. You would not even be able to reason with them as they are totally invested in it.  

One of my favourite clips from The Simpsons.

Homer replaces the guy in charge of rubbish collection in Springfield, who is fired. A week later Homer has bankrupted the council refuse department and the town is awash with rubbish. The townspeople beg the former rubbish chief to come back and rescue them.

 

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Mirror Mirror
11 hours ago, Van Lady said:

Firstly thanks to @Mirror Mirrorfor posting the article on the forum. Very good!

My lovely daughter and her very nice partner…..they now live together and get on really well but by no means a long established relationship…. are currently visiting his parents at their home.

Daughter unjabbed and doesn’t want to be….her decision. Partner and parents all double jabbed….their decision.

Partner’s father asked my daughter if she’d had her second jab yet. She replied that she was worried about various family reactions to vaccines/prescribed drugs (all true but me, son and daughter don’t want vax regardless of that) so hadn’t had the first because she was wondering about the best way forward for her so was still thinking about it.

Possible in laws due to a possible future marriage responded with oh my goodness we’ll have to be very very careful because if you get IT (they meant the virus) you’ll be very ill. Added on how the unvaccinated are going to pressure the nhs. Her partner doesn’t pressure her and doesn’t go on about it but has stated he wishes she’d just have it.

My daughter currently knows four people who are vaccinated and isolating who recently tested positive for Covid. They work in areas where work testing is mandatory. Two double jabbed and two first shot.

The double jabbed…one is her partner’s friend and one is a friend of my daughter. Neither have had any symptoms for days. The single jabbed…..same scenario.

She tried her best by mentioning the vaccinated isolated with no symptoms but the response was from the prospective in laws….thank god they’re all vaccinated because if they weren’t they’d be very ill indeed!

WTF! How can you sow a seed to anyone who has a fixed view…..two sides. Daughter feels nothing she or they say will change either viewpoint. Quite sad really. Vax mania is destroying everyday social life interaction.

Unsurprisingly she reported today she’d had a sleepless night. Also thinks the prospective in laws are “covidiots”…..depends on personal viewpoints who is a “covidiot”.

Other than vax chat she’s having a lovely time 🙁

 

 

Hey! I’m glad you appreciated the article, I thought it was stunning and extremely thought provoking.

I think the difficulty, when faced with a seemingly monolithic wall of covid belief, is where to start.

What you want to say is, “well I think the whole thing is a hoax..”, but straight away you’re in opposing camps, and if they’re true believers, they instantly think you’re a loon. On the other hand, you have access to tons of information, but just tossing facts like, “there’s been no excess mortality, or, for vaccines given in January in Israel, the relative risk reduction is now down to 16%”, seems disjointed. 

What’s needed are more general statements, designed to make people think on their own, to create a crack in that monolith. Something like, “You know, I just read that Moderna sent their vaccine prototype to the Chapel Hill Lab University in North Carolina in Nov 2019.” Or, “Strange that they seem to be pushing to get children vaccinated, when children by and large are unaffected by it.” Both those statements would force the other side to engage and give you the opportunity to talk about the origins of covid, and whether the line we are being fed is false, or the efficacy of vaccines, and their spectacular failure to stop infection or transmission.

Im sure there are others, please do post them here as I’m going to try and assemble a small selection to have ready for use at all times.

Regarding your specific case @Van Lady, I think you need to try and put yourself in the position of the future in laws, and imagine why they feel the way they do. Then possibly you could construct some gentle suggestive counter arguments which might make them start to question their beliefs.  

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sleepwello'nights
9 hours ago, The Masked Tulip said:

Unfortunately, I can't see anything other than serious illness or death making people I know even begin to question what is happening. It is going to take the deaths and serious illness of their jabbed loved ones. 

And that will just strengthen their "knowledge" that covid is a deadly disease. It will confirm their belief that lockdowns, mask wearing and the injections are necessary. 

Their belief will not be shaken until the Nuremberg trials are held. I do not think they ever will be so strong is the authorities hold over power and control aided and abetted by the complicit media.

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sleepwello'nights
16 hours ago, Alex said:

I haven't read the article, so this isn't a comment on it one way or the other, just a related thought.

One option is to reverse the psychology. Currently the narrative is that those who have taken the vaccine are in the virtuous and safe majority. If asked about the jab, don't get defensive but instead respond from a position of assumed righteousness and superior knowledge, as though it's self-evident that you are right and "they" are wrong.

"Christ, you didn't fall for that bullshit, did you?" said with a pitying laugh. "Nobody I know who cares about their health has allowed that shit to be injected into them. Maybe you should take a break from TV propaganda for a while."

Shake your head with a wry smile and wish them the best of luck.

(Not really suitable for friends and family... I guess)

That seems a good avenue to try. Throwing facts and figures at covidiots isn't working for me. 

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11 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

The argument that the jab hasn't been tested for long enough is always countered with 'millions have had it so that is the same thing'

The response to this is if you want to see if an engine will last for 100k miles, you can't simply test 1,000 engines for 100 miles each.

"You can't speed up a pregnancy by getting 10 more women pregnant."

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I just tell the truth if appropriate and move on.  "I've been advised to not to take the vaccine atm for medical reasons...... I'm sorry, my medical history is private". 

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M S E Refugee

The response I get from close friends at work is that I can't change anything so I should forget about Covid and move on.

I find this attitude quite disturbing as they do know something isn't right but they just choose to ignore all of the weirdness and basically make out that I am overreacting to this abnormal situation.

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Bornagain
1 minute ago, Alex said:

"You can't speed up a pregnancy by getting 10 more women pregnant."

....the old joke is that a project manager thinks that to make a baby you need one women for nine months, or nine women for one month.

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4 minutes ago, M S E Refugee said:

The response I get from close friends at work is that I can't change anything so I should forget about Covid and move on.

I find this attitude quite disturbing as they do know something isn't right but they just choose to ignore all of the weirdness and basically make out that I am overreacting to this abnormal situation.

That might be a bit of a breakthrough though, or just further along the Kubler Ross stages of grief ("Acceptance").

Edited by Harley
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2 minutes ago, Bornagain said:

....the old joke is that a project manager thinks that to make a baby you need one women for nine months, or nine women for one month.

Only because they don't know how to use MS Project properly, as 99% indeed don't!

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8 minutes ago, Harley said:

I just tell the truth if appropriate and move on.  "I've been advised to not to take the vaccine atm for medical reasons...... I'm sorry, my medical history is private". 

 

It's anal warts. I just looked you up on the internet.

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