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The tax man cometh.. (allegedly)


With a crooked smile
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With a crooked smile

Read this today in FT 

'From April 2023 landlords and the self-employed with property or business income of more than £10,000 a year will be drawn in and made to keep digital records and report their income every quarter.' 

 

Plus loads of stuff about digital surveillance and tieing things together. 

Am I right to be suspicious and think this will only happen if they already suspect something. Do they actually have the resources to trawl all the data and investigate possible fraud? 

https://www.ft.com/content/d8ce73a3-2585-4af1-a91b-d0278a2ea40b

 

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Bobthebuilder

I mentioned this before on another thread. Quarterly digital tax returns on Sage or similar.

I won't be doing it, they can f**k off.(my earnings will be under £10K.)

My sister is an accountant, I asked her opinion on it for small sole traders, a bit later in life like me. She said, "most of the ones I deal with have said they will stop trading when it comes into force".

Usual incompetence from government / HMRC.

Could be the final nail in the coffin for BTL, at least it may have an upside.

Edited by Bobthebuilder
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17 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

Read this today in FT 

'From April 2023 landlords and the self-employed with property or business income of more than £10,000 a year will be drawn in and made to keep digital records and report their income every quarter.' 

 

Plus loads of stuff about digital surveillance and tieing things together. 

Am I right to be suspicious and think this will only happen if they already suspect something. Do they actually have the resources to trawl all the data and investigate possible fraud? 

https://www.ft.com/content/d8ce73a3-2585-4af1-a91b-d0278a2ea40b

 

Nope, it will be used in general - on the let's see what we can find by combining these datasets together basis.

 

 

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AlfredTheLittle

These things are always built up, normally by the software providers to get more people to subscribe.

I'd bet anything that this will just involve HMRC sending you an estimate of your tax every quarter, the actual tax return and due dates for tax payments won't change. That may come later, but it's not what this is.

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Bobthebuilder
7 minutes ago, AlfredTheLittle said:

These things are always built up, normally by the software providers to get more people to subscribe.

I'd bet anything that this will just involve HMRC sending you an estimate of your tax every quarter, the actual tax return and due dates for tax payments won't change. That may come later, but it's not what this is.

It has to be submitted every quarter on an approved books' software, such as Sage. Yearly payments will remain.

I am going to find it a pain in the ass as I have to notify them every 3 months that, I don't owe them anything.

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AlfredTheLittle
15 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

It has to be submitted every quarter on an approved books' software, such as Sage. Yearly payments will remain.

I am going to find it a pain in the ass as I have to notify them every 3 months that, I don't owe them anything.

It won't, mtd for vat which is already here can be submitted on a spreadsheet. Digitisation of paye just improved things, digitisation of vat didn't change much as most people already did it digitally anyway.

I think the end goal is to get people paying more regularly, and also for HMRC to have info about everyone's income through banks etc in any case, but that's happening anyway.

I'm an accountant, there's always something everyone's panicking about and most of the time if you ignore the panic, the chances are you will barely notice the supposedly huge changes introduced.

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With a crooked smile
42 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

Could be the final nail in the coffin for BTL, at least it may have an upside.

I immediately thought of the Pakistani neighbour I had who was a b2l landlord.. 

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With a crooked smile
3 minutes ago, AlfredTheLittle said:

I'm an accountant

I find it interesting that some people still pay 3-600 quid cash when they stay at our hotel. I'd love to know the correlation between this self employment and possible tax fraud. 

I had some connections with trailfinders in the past. Each store has a safe on site as somepeople pay cash for big trips very difficult for hmrc to track, its not like parking a new porche on your drive. I should point out tho in Manchester a Mr Big from the local underworld came in paid cash at the end of the day. The money got put in a safe. TF got broken into that night and the money went.... 

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Lightscribe
14 hours ago, With a crooked smile said:

I find it interesting that some people still pay 3-600 quid cash when they stay at our hotel. I'd love to know the correlation between this self employment and possible tax fraud. 

I had some connections with trailfinders in the past. Each store has a safe on site as somepeople pay cash for big trips very difficult for hmrc to track, its not like parking a new porche on your drive. I should point out tho in Manchester a Mr Big from the local underworld came in paid cash at the end of the day. The money got put in a safe. TF got broken into that night and the money went.... 

The beauty of CBDCs. None of that dirty virus ridden cash. No more cash in hand, no cash drug deals everything tracked and verified - win win.

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With a crooked smile
39 minutes ago, Lightscribe said:

The beauty of CBDCs

Won't drug deals just be paid for using diamonds ect? 

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Lightscribe
36 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

Won't drug deals just be paid for using diamonds ect? 

And the diamonds exchanged for?…. TBH I think food, water and supplies is more likely. Divisible pre-known and verified weights would be better, like gold/silver coinage/bars.

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1 hour ago, With a crooked smile said:

Won't drug deals just be paid for using diamonds ect? 

doubt it, how do you validate it's a real diamond? you'll never get me buying gold bars, they might be a con, has happened in the past, for large sums too! I can validate your crypto xfer instantly, gotta be the future lol :P

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21 hours ago, With a crooked smile said:

Read this today in FT 

'From April 2023 landlords and the self-employed with property or business income of more than £10,000 a year will be drawn in and made to keep digital records and report their income every quarter.' 

 

Plus loads of stuff about digital surveillance and tieing things together. 

Am I right to be suspicious and think this will only happen if they already suspect something. Do they actually have the resources to trawl all the data and investigate possible fraud? 

https://www.ft.com/content/d8ce73a3-2585-4af1-a91b-d0278a2ea40b

 

HMRC have a lot less resources than are generally believed. And somewhere there must be an accountant who will tell his client that knocking up a set of quarterly accounts in a five minute job and that he is going to reduce his fees accordingly, but I have yet to meet him.

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7 hours ago, humdrum said:

HMRC have a lot less resources than are generally believed. And somewhere there must be an accountant who will tell his client that knocking up a set of quarterly accounts in a five minute job and that he is going to reduce his fees accordingly, but I have yet to meet him.

Maybe but it still gives the self employed the feeling that the taxman is going to fine you, fuck you over or just be a cunt, unless you jump to their endless rules.

Just another way of the bastards tightening the screws.

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Andersen
On 20/08/2021 at 18:56, Bobthebuilder said:

I mentioned this before on another thread. Quarterly digital tax returns on Sage or similar.

I won't be doing it, they can f**k off.(my earnings will be under £10K.)

My sister is an accountant, I asked her opinion on it for small sole traders, a bit later in life like me. She said, "most of the ones I deal with have said they will stop trading when it comes into force"...

Could be the final nail in the coffin for BTL, at least it may have an upside.

#MeToo

I'm self employed and it's handy having a legal way to do paid work, needing to complete digital tax returns isn't worth the effort for the amount of work I do, and the risk of 4x penalties every year if I miss a deadline or screw something up is the deciding factor. Quarterly returns for the small scale self employed have been talked about for several years (and postponed for various reasons). If it comes in I'll be closing my business. The past 18 months has already made me look hard at retiring early.

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11 hours ago, Andersen said:

#MeToo

I'm self employed and it's handy having a legal way to do paid work, needing to complete digital tax returns isn't worth the effort for the amount of work I do, and the risk of 4x penalties every year if I miss a deadline or screw something up is the deciding factor. Quarterly returns for the small scale self employed have been talked about for several years (and postponed for various reasons). If it comes in I'll be closing my business. The past 18 months has already made me look hard at retiring early.

Its a pity that its the govt pushing you into it though, as opposed to doing it exactly when it suits you the most.

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PatronizingGit
On 20/08/2021 at 18:56, Bobthebuilder said:

I mentioned this before on another thread. Quarterly digital tax returns on Sage or similar.

I won't be doing it, they can f**k off.(my earnings will be under £10K.)

My sister is an accountant, I asked her opinion on it for small sole traders, a bit later in life like me. She said, "most of the ones I deal with have said they will stop trading when it comes into force".

Usual incompetence from government / HMRC.

Could be the final nail in the coffin for BTL, at least it may have an upside.

You got to wonder about the timing of this. 

FT: Lloyds Banking Group has target to buy 50,000 properties by 2030 | This is Money

Not a particular fan of any landlords, small or large. But all these regulatory capture changes seem intended to further concentrate market power into the hands of a diminishing few globo-homo tory donors.

 

Chase small BTLers out, get more corporate takeover.

 

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sarahbell
13 hours ago, Andersen said:

#MeToo

I'm self employed and it's handy having a legal way to do paid work, needing to complete digital tax returns isn't worth the effort for the amount of work I do, and the risk of 4x penalties every year if I miss a deadline or screw something up is the deciding factor. Quarterly returns for the small scale self employed have been talked about for several years (and postponed for various reasons). If it comes in I'll be closing my business. The past 18 months has already made me look hard at retiring early.

It would have meant perhaps that SE furloughed people who'd started months before Covid would have had some evidence of earnings in place.

 

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sarahbell

What they need is a database to connect every house (and every newly built house needs to be added), to the council tax register, verifying that it is your sole residence for CT purposes, and then they would know which houses are rented out, for how much,  and who needs to pay a bit of tax.

It'd cost a trillion billion and the XLSX file would break.

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Wight Flight
47 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

What they need is a database to connect every house (and every newly built house needs to be added), to the council tax register, verifying that it is your sole residence for CT purposes, and then they would know which houses are rented out, for how much,  and who needs to pay a bit of tax.

It'd cost a trillion billion and the XLSX file would break.

It really wouldn't.

Just nick the DVLA software, change car registration to house number and postcode, change tax and mot to owner occupied and landlord registered and you have it all sorted by Friday.

Tenants can then check the status of somewhere they are looking to rent, just as a car buyer can run a PCI check.

Simples.

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Popuplights
On 20/08/2021 at 19:45, With a crooked smile said:

I find it interesting that some people still pay 3-600 quid cash when they stay at our hotel. I'd love to know the correlation between this self employment and possible tax fraud. 

I had some connections with trailfinders in the past. Each store has a safe on site as somepeople pay cash for big trips very difficult for hmrc to track, its not like parking a new porche on your drive. I should point out tho in Manchester a Mr Big from the local underworld came in paid cash at the end of the day. The money got put in a safe. TF got broken into that night and the money went.... 

You will like this story then. Local dosser nicked the safe out of Winchester Cathedral, wheeled it out the front door on an office chair. Unsurprisingly got nicked. 

http://www.hampshirechronicle.co.uk/news/19511732.man-charged-theft-safe-winchester-cathedral/

 

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sarahbell
On 22/08/2021 at 15:24, Wight Flight said:

It really wouldn't.

Just nick the DVLA software, change car registration to house number and postcode, change tax and mot to owner occupied and landlord registered and you have it all sorted by Friday.

Tenants can then check the status of somewhere they are looking to rent, just as a car buyer can run a PCI check.

Simples.

let's do that then.

:)

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Rare Bear
On 23/08/2021 at 12:28, Popuplights said:

You will like this story then. Local dosser nicked the safe out of Winchester Cathedral, wheeled it out the front door on an office chair. Unsurprisingly got nicked. 

http://www.hampshirechronicle.co.uk/news/19511732.man-charged-theft-safe-winchester-cathedral/

 

Like the story of the pub in the Fulham Road. Probably about 1970 there was a fire in a pub in the Fulham Road. A copper met two of the drinkers coming out through the smoke carrying the till. 

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Libspero
On 23/08/2021 at 12:28, Popuplights said:

You will like this story then. Local dosser nicked the safe out of Winchester Cathedral, wheeled it out the front door on an office chair. Unsurprisingly got nicked. 

http://www.hampshirechronicle.co.uk/news/19511732.man-charged-theft-safe-winchester-cathedral/

 

Glad they got him.

Theft from churches particularly annoys me,  you used to be able to walk into any church in the country..  now many of them are locked thanks to shit like this :PissedOff:

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