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Euro 7 emissions rules - be very afraid


Frank Hovis
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Unlike A levels, these vehicle requirements are getting harder. Manufacturers will cheat again and will be "fined".

These are fantasy regulations, because vehicles are now clean enough. It's merely a quango decision.

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Some car industry insiders  believe the proposals also have an underlying aim in pushing more EU motorists into electric cars

Nope, anyone who reads those new rules will believe that is the aim as soon as they read it.

My plan is still as it was - to keep my car until there is a decent EV replacement. 

 

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Frank Hovis
2 minutes ago, eek said:

My plan is still as it was - to keep my car until there is a decent EV replacement. 

Mine is twelve years old and pushing 200k so that's a limited time option for me; I need a newer one that will still be running a good ten years post 2030.

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9 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Mine is twelve years old and pushing 200k so that's a limited time option for me; I need a newer one that will still be running a good ten years post 2030.

mine is 6 years old, 40k miles and a future classic (JCW with all the toys). were I in your position I would be doing the same but I don't need to. I also suspect a suitable EV will be available in 2023/4 were I to wish to switch.

Completely offtopic but yesterday I bought my daughter a 3 year old Fiat 500 for less than £7k. the next cheapest online is about £8300 so there are bargains round if you shop carefully and look at gumtree rather than autotrader. 

Brand new ones that used to cost £10,700 now start at £14k due to being hybrid....

Edited by eek
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9 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

It's also a bit rubbish if you work in car sales or maintenance as your turnover is going to halve at the very least.

And the rest because ev cars don't require any motor maintenance, it's really just tyres and brakes.

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9 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Mine is twelve years old and pushing 200k so that's a limited time option for me; I need a newer one that will still be running a good ten years post 2030.

You will be ok in Cornwall. It won't be realistic for anyone in a major city to do that. The london ULEZ is euro 4 for petrol and euro 6 for diesel.

£8 charge for Birmingham clean air zone as well. Portsmouth starts at the end of this year.

They will keep moving the goalposts until everyone is in EVs. 

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18 minutes ago, eek said:

And the rest because ev cars don't require any motor maintenance, it's really just tyres and brakes.

 

No, they require a whole new motor. 

Maybe it's just down to early Tesla's terrible build quality, but it's way too early to claim that. We will see when other electric mainstream cars start to come out of warranty. 

All you're really missing is an engine and some other related parts, not often something goes wrong with one and oil/belt changes don't really cost that much over the lifetime of the car.

You add a LOT of very complicated sensors, wiring  and electrical parts. 

 

A dead screen on these is essentially all your features other than driving gone, if it even allows you to do that. 

Edited by Myco
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sarahbell
4 minutes ago, Albo said:

You will be ok in Cornwall. It won't be realistic for anyone in a major city to do that. The london ULEZ is euro 4 for petrol and euro 6 for diesel.

£8 charge for Birmingham clean air zone as well. Portsmouth starts at the end of this year.

They will keep moving the goalposts until everyone is in EVs. 

Which completely ignores the problem of the sheer number of car journeys made every day.

The start of lockdown last year when the roads were really quiet, was in reality how the roads have to be in order to make a farts worth of difference to anything. And then they have to be that quiet around the globe.

Less people isn't a popular idea. Restricting the weathy (You are wealthy if you have a car) won't work unless the entire planet takes it on board. Which it won't. China is after upping population and car ownership.

 

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European Union proposals for new Euro 7 emissions legislation

Well excuse me but I thought the whole point of Brexit was to avoid being subject to their unelected bureaucrats tyrannical Brussels etc.etc.

Will we be getting "Euro 7" in the UK then?

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22 minutes ago, eek said:

And the rest because ev cars don't require any motor maintenance, it's really just tyres and brakes.

I think you are deluded. You will not be able to fix them, unlike blowing through the carbs to get a bit of dirt out. These will be landfill like old phones, who nobody wonders where they go.

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Just now, Funn3r said:

European Union proposals for new Euro 7 emissions legislation

Well excuse me but I thought the whole point of Brexit was to avoid being subject to their unelected bureaucrats tyrannical Brussels etc.etc.

Will we be getting "Euro 7" in the UK then?

Yup, because they are a big market for UK production. Brexit will not get the Victorian British Empire back.

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2 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

European Union proposals for new Euro 7 emissions legislation

Well excuse me but I thought the whole point of Brexit was to avoid being subject to their unelected bureaucrats tyrannical Brussels etc.etc.

Will we be getting "Euro 7" in the UK then?

Even if the government wanted to be different for the sake of it, they would end up having do the exact same thing to meet their CO2 targets. 

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Well. my car is 28 years old, and goes for MOT on Monday. I will let all know whether I become a temporary "bus wanker".

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12 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

European Union proposals for new Euro 7 emissions legislation

Well excuse me but I thought the whole point of Brexit was to avoid being subject to their unelected bureaucrats tyrannical Brussels etc.etc.

Will we be getting "Euro 7" in the UK then?

No,  just to prove we are more sanctimonious than the European Union we will jump immediately to Euro 8 which involves a hamster wheel and a rubber band. 

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35 minutes ago, eek said:

And the rest because ev cars don't require any motor maintenance, it's really just tyres and brakes.

They'll think of something. Mechanic sharp intake of breath and shakes head sadly while staring into his calculator. "See, it's your voltage load-balancing triode assembly mate, very costly got dilithium in them and can't get that from Afghanistan these days innit."

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Frank Hovis
19 minutes ago, GTM said:

To take just one example, if we went as near as dammit 100% EV. The 5 minute splash and dash at the petrol station isn't an option. If you are low on charge you are stopping for at least 30-40 minutes. So the service stations are going to have to expand as more cars will be sitting idle for longer.

 

And just imagine quite how many spaces that will mean for Taunton Deane services at Easter or August bank holiday.

You'd have to concrete over most of Somerset.

It seems so improbable that my conclusion is that it simply isn't going to happen; what will happen is far fewer cars on the road.

Everyone else will be on the works' charabanc to Rhyl for the week.

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29 minutes ago, MrPin said:

I think you are deluded. You will not be able to fix them, unlike blowing through the carbs to get a bit of dirt out. These will be landfill like old phones, who nobody wonders where they go.

Yep when the motors go it's a complete replacement job, but that is because it's an all or nothing job instead of a complex motor with consumable parts. 

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30 minutes ago, Myco said:

 

No, they require a whole new motor. 

Maybe it's just down to early Tesla's terrible build quality, but it's way too early to claim that. We will see when other electric mainstream cars start to come out of warranty. 

All you're really missing is an engine and some other related parts, not often something goes wrong with one and oil/belt changes don't really cost that much over the lifetime of the car.

You add a LOT of very complicated sensors, wiring  and electrical parts. 

 

A dead screen on these is essentially all your features other than driving gone, if it even allows you to do that. 

Car and Driver have found that the maintenance costs of a Tesla aren't massively different from an ICE car.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-model-3-reliability-maintenance/

Being heavier I'd also expect that long term the suspension will on average fail earlier.

But all savings completely wiped out and more once the battery pack goes:

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/38915/it-costs-nearly-16000-to-replace-a-tesla-model-3-battery-pack

 

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Dave Beans
Just now, GTM said:

Car and Driver have found that the maintenance costs of a Tesla aren't massively different from an ICE car.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-model-3-reliability-maintenance/

Being heavier I'd also expect that long term the suspension will on average fail earlier.

But all savings completely wiped out and more once the battery pack goes:

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/38915/it-costs-nearly-16000-to-replace-a-tesla-model-3-battery-pack

 

Cars will become like iPhones.  Most parts will be chipped.  If the main computer does not like a part, the car wont start.  You will be forced to go to a main dealer.

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Yadda yadda yadda
13 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

And just imagine quite how many spaces that will mean for Taunton Deane services at Easter or August bank holiday.

You'd have to concrete over most of Somerset.

It seems so improbable that my conclusion is that it simply isn't going to happen; what will happen is far fewer cars on the road.

Everyone else will be on the works' charabanc to Rhyl for the week.

All the homeworkers will live by the coast instead. Those that earn enough to afford it. Others will hire cars at the destination. Possibly by the hour/minute rather than day.

Long distance driving is miserable in England anyway.

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TheNoSnowMan
10 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

Cars will become like iPhones.  Most parts will be chipped.  If the main computer does not like a part, the car wont start.  You will be forced to go to a main dealer.

Jailbreaking EV's could be a potential money making scheme for the 2030's.

I'm curious about what will happen to cul-de-sac's like mine where all the garages are at the other end of the street. Are we going to see 30+ extension leads being dragged up and down walkways every night? With no one daring to leave the house after dark because it's too much of a trip hazard?

100% EV's isn't happening without a massive overall of infrastructure. Charging a car at home isn't feasible for most people.

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