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Euro 7 emissions rules - be very afraid


Frank Hovis
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The Generation Game
6 minutes ago, Royston said:

I'm not sure if it's a myth but I recently heard a tale of someone buying a used Tesla only for Tesla to remotely disable or delete a number of optional extras that the original owner had spec'd the car with.. on the basis that the new owner hadn't paid for these extras so they weren't entitled to have use of them.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-yanked-fsd-option-without-notice-class-action-lawsuit-any-lawyers-here-resolved.183804/page-22#post-4462556

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31 minutes ago, Royston said:

I'm not sure if it's a myth but I recently heard a tale of someone buying a used Tesla only for Tesla to remotely disable or delete a number of optional extras that the original owner had spec'd the car with.. on the basis that the new owner hadn't paid for these extras so they weren't entitled to have use of them.

I posted the details on another thread a while ago.

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4 minutes ago, Option5 said:

I posted the details on another thread a while ago.

It's because it's a technological device. You can't OWN it all any more. You subscribe to it.

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6 minutes ago, Option5 said:

Found it:

One of the rich guys in Norway bought an early Model S and paid to have all the upgrades added, power boost, range increase etc etc.

When he decided to buy a new one he gave the old one to his nephew.

He advised Tesla of the change of owner to keep the service up to date 

Next morning his nephew came out to find the car had updated it's  software and deleted all the add-ons.

Uncle contacted Tesla and was told that the add-ons were his and not the cars. So he gave them an option, put them back on the old car or put them on the new car and refund me for paying for them again.

They said no, so the contacted the head of the consumer council in Norway (his sister) who wrote to Tesla asking if this was correct.

Next morning his nephew found them all working again.

Apparently they wipe the extras on some of the trade ins so they can sell the add-ons again to the new owner.

Crooks.

I may have posted this before too, but a few years ago, I took my car to be serviced at a Mercedes dealership (stand down, DOSBODders, it's ten years old and I bought it used, with a service package and it has long since paid for itself after so many company miles claimed at 45p); they were really pushing Mercedes Me, a plug-in doofer that sends all manner of information about the car to an app on your phone, so it is really cool, yeah?

Fuck off, it's the first wave of Ze Germans controlling your car remotely and the pre-cursor to dynamic road pricing.

https://www.me.mercedes-benz.com/passengercars/mercedes-benz-cars/mercedes-me/stage-mercedes-me.module.html

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Chewing Grass
10 minutes ago, Option5 said:

Apparently they wipe the extras on some of the trade ins so they can sell the add-ons again to the new owner.

Crooks.

All Large American Company's are Crooks almost without exception, every fucking Dime of Profit Counts no matter how it is got. I have unfortunately by the twists of my industry ended up working for the, it was either that or the French.

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Just now, Chewing Grass said:

All Large American Company's are Crooks almost without exception, every fucking Dime of Profit Counts no matter how it is got. I have unfortunately by the twists of my industry ended up working for the, it was either that or the French.

Merde Alors, Rosbif!

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5 minutes ago, Chewing Grass said:

All Large American Company's are Crooks almost without exception, every fucking Dime of Profit Counts no matter how it is got. I have unfortunately by the twists of my industry ended up working for the, it was either that or the French.

The problem for Tesla in Norway is even if you sell your car privately the buyer has rights. So if you advertise your Tesla with all the extras and then Tesla uninstall them you are liable. However if that's the case you can take Tesla to court and they'd lose, so they now only wipe extras on trade ins with the colusion of the dealers.

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VeryMeanReversion
8 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

Credit to @The Generation Game

Unless you are simply going to concede and buy an expensive EV you now have four years to decide upon what car you want to be driving for the next twenty years and buy it.

 

Already covered. Got a coupe, roadster, SUV,  V8 and a runaround, all with low miles. Should get most of them to last another 20 years.

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5 minutes ago, VeryMeanReversion said:

Already covered. Got a coupe, roadster, SUV,  V8 and a runaround, all with low miles. Should get most of them to last another 20 years.

Way to go.  I am tempted to go for two cars though the most sensible second car would be a small EV (local trips, charge off the panels for free) and there is no approaching deadline on buying those.

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how are garages going to attract youngsters in to learn how to maintain the IC cars in the years to come ? Could become very expensive if mechanics can name their price.

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19 minutes ago, ashestoashes said:

how are garages going to attract youngsters in to learn how to maintain the IC cars in the years to come ? Could become very expensive if mechanics can name their price.

Will the practice of building new engines be banned?

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1 hour ago, Option5 said:

Found it:

One of the rich guys in Norway bought an early Model S and paid to have all the upgrades added, power boost, range increase etc etc.

When he decided to buy a new one he gave the old one to his nephew.

He advised Tesla of the change of owner to keep the service up to date 

Next morning his nephew came out to find the car had updated it's  software and deleted all the add-ons.

Uncle contacted Tesla and was told that the add-ons were his and not the cars. So he gave them an option, put them back on the old car or put them on the new car and refund me for paying for them again.

They said no, so the contacted the head of the consumer council in Norway (his sister) who wrote to Tesla asking if this was correct.

Next morning his nephew found them all working again.

Apparently they wipe the extras on some of the trade ins so they can sell the add-ons again to the new owner.

Crooks.

Eventually it will become the norm. The guy on the thread posted above had a nice analogy, it will be like the difference between the phone and the data plan. 

Once everything has electrified and become controlled by software you can essentially decouple features and performance from the car itself. 

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1 hour ago, MrPin said:

It's because it's a technological device. You can't OWN it all any more. You subscribe to it.

If I’m forced to have an electric car then I’ll build my own. I don’t want some spotty SJW in Silicon Valley deciding to brick my car because of something they read in my gmail folder 

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3 hours ago, Rare Bear said:

Not kerosene, that's nice clean fuel. Ships burn bunker oil, more like tar.

Sorry, I wasn't too clear in my post. I was probably a bit off topic as well.

Kerosene burns relatively clean, but it still produces plenty of CO2.

If the governments are serious about reducing CO2 emissions, they should be taxing all the producers of CO2 in order to encourage them to explore less polluting options - the easiest and most logical way to do that in transport is by taxing the fuel.

However at present aviation fuel is taxed at 0%, but diesel for long-distance buses is taxed. The peasants who take a bus to Prague are taxed to save the planet, but their betters - who can afford a plane ticket - are not. Go figure.

 

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1 hour ago, Chewing Grass said:

All Large American Company's are Crooks almost without exception, every fucking Dime of Profit Counts no matter how it is got. I have unfortunately by the twists of my industry ended up working for the, it was either that or the French.

 

Screen Shot 2021-09-02 at 21.59.53.png

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1 hour ago, DeepLurker said:

Sorry, I wasn't too clear in my post. I was probably a bit off topic as well.

Kerosene burns relatively clean, but it still produces plenty of CO2.

If the governments are serious about reducing CO2 emissions, they should be taxing all the producers of CO2 in order to encourage them to explore less polluting options - the easiest and most logical way to do that in transport is by taxing the fuel.

However at present aviation fuel is taxed at 0%, but diesel for long-distance buses is taxed. The peasants who take a bus to Prague are taxed to save the planet, but their betters - who can afford a plane ticket - are not. Go figure.

 

They are taxing carbon, that's what carbon trading is about. CO2 emissions will be about $100/t worldwide by 2030, that's driving a lot of activity right now. I see it first hand, its gone mental, low carbon processes and technologies are the 21st century gold rush. 

Edited by Roger_Mellie
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3 hours ago, Royston said:

I'm not sure if it's a myth but I recently heard a tale of someone buying a used Tesla only for Tesla to remotely disable or delete a number of optional extras that the original owner had spec'd the car with.. on the basis that the new owner hadn't paid for these extras so they weren't entitled to have use of them.

And I think I read something about the new owner succeeding in some sort of action against Tesla.

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10 hours ago, Funn3r said:

European Union proposals for new Euro 7 emissions legislation

Well excuse me but I thought the whole point of Brexit was to avoid being subject to their unelected bureaucrats tyrannical Brussels etc.etc.

Will we be getting "Euro 7" in the UK then?

It's all connected, man - World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations

So, yes but it'll probably be called "Brit 7" though.

Edited by Bien Pensant
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The Generation Game
26 minutes ago, Roger_Mellie said:

They are taxing carbon, that's what carbon trading is about. CO2 emissions will be about $100/t worldwide by 2030, that's driving a lot of activity right now. I see it first hand, its gone mental, low carbon processes and technologies are the 21st century gold rush. 

If I buy some sweets, do I have to pay a glucose carbon tax on top of the sugar tax?

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11 hours ago, eek said:

And the rest because ev cars don't require any motor maintenance, it's really just tyres and brakes.

My point has already been made. 

Will add my experience though.

Zero engine issues in any car i've owned over the past 15 or so years.

Or 25 years of cars I've driven but not owned. 

It's not the engines that usually go. Just everything else. 

Sorry @Carl Fimble 

You're the exception. 

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10 hours ago, MrPin said:

I think you are deluded. You will not be able to fix them, unlike blowing through the carbs to get a bit of dirt out. These will be landfill like old phones, who nobody wonders where they go.

Why not?

What's in them except a battery, a couple of motors and a motor controller? Why wouldn't you be able to fix them?

Sounds much easier than an ICE car to me.

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5 minutes ago, The Generation Game said:

If I buy some sweets, do I have to pay a glucose carbon tax on top of the sugar tax?

Why would you? 

In theory glucose manufacturers will also have to pay for CO2 emissions, but given all the carbon in glucose is from the atmosphere it probably nets out. 

Bio-ethanol is an interesting one, fermenting glucose to make bio-ethanol kicks out a shitload of CO2, but because its from the atmosphere to start with it's overlooked. In my view, compared to se big industrial processes its fairly easy pickings. 

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14 minutes ago, Bien Pensant said:

It's all connected, man - World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations

So, yes but it'll probably be called "Brit 7" though.

The world forum thing does not actually say there is a global agreement on fuel composition.

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