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Vaccine


DTMark
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I'm trying to make a decision on whether to have the vaccine.

Forgive me, for I am sure there are multiple threads discussing this in detail. I'm not on here all the time. And I've been able to largely ignore the discussion but now I need to make a decision based on information and evidence. It's like researching global warming. There are vested interests and positions everywhere, so it's impossible to get to the truth.

Which would be: the effectiveness of the vaccine versus the risks.

I can see plenty of threads on social media about people who have had two shots and who are very ill with Covid. Some who've developed heart-releated issues immediately after having had the vaccine. But then those are the sorts of posts which are readily re-tweeted.

I think of Lionel Hutz from the Simpsons being told by the judge that his arguments are hearsay and conjecture: "Those are kinds of evidence"..

If we do not have the vaccine then we will not be able to attend multiple events or go to places like restaurants and sit inside. But then Italy has cafe culture and nobody ever does sit inside. So it's not such an issue. It doesn't piss with rain every day here and for maybe ten months of the year it's warm enough to never have to go inside.

Does anyone have any links to the science of this in a form that the average person can understand? Thanks :)

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I'm mid 50's and double vaccinated. Caught covid at the football 3 weeks ago and head a headache and loss of smell. I just carried on as normal , told all my mates that i'd got covid and none of them gave a fuck , even invited me round for a few beers etc. I spent a year fretting about catching the bloody thing and when i did it was so easy i began to think that it was  the biggest overreaction in this country since Princess Diana died.

 

My advice would be not to overthink it , just do what your gut tells you.

Edited by headrow
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King Penda

I’m holding out for shits and giggles and my main interest is to see how far they will go to make the population take it .I’ve aready had it and my hns say I’m vaccinated well for about another week.then I’m expected to get jabbed the reality is my immune system will be primed better to fight it than those jabbed 

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16 minutes ago, DTMark said:

If we do not have the vaccine then we will not be able to attend multiple events or go to places like restaurants and sit inside.

...

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I'm pretty much in the same boat.  I don't really want to have the jab but I can see here in Germany that the things like eating out, sitting in the pub and going on holiday will become seriously restricted. I'm very pissed off with the pressure being put on as I'm not convinced that everyone being vaccinated will make any difference to the spread and I'm also not convinced that there are huge risks of catching it or suffering badly if I do.

What I'd like to know if there is a least worst jab - i.e. the one with the least side effects. Anyone got any ideas?

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1 minute ago, sarahbell said:

Did you used to laugh at people who didn't give their kids the MMR vaccine?

 

We have decades of history of the efficacy and side-effects of other vaccines like that.

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Well, I think the chances are that the vaccine won't harm you, long or short term. But we just don't know - especially long term.

I also think the chances are that covid won't harm you.

But it's a case of playing the odds isn't it.

If you are doing it purely for health reasons, and not for the social restrictions, then firsly consider your age and whatever medical conditions you have which make you more likely to get a bad case of covid - e.g. diabetes, obesity, asthma.

With this, try and figure out what your chances are of coming down with a bad case of covid, be that long covid (which does exist despite what some say here), or death - perhaps someone here has a website that gives that info?

And perhaps that's what you need to make a decision.

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Just now, DTMark said:

We have decades of history of the efficacy and side-effects of other vaccines like that.

And yet dozens of people chose not to get their kids jabbed because of something someone wrote. 

In the words of granny weatherwax from discworld : I aint dead yet. 

Toss a coin. If you feel yourself needing best of three you've got your answer.

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1 minute ago, wherebee said:

You can always choose to have the jab later.

I know I'll get shit here for even saying this - if you die from covid you can't get the jab later, and if you are struck down with a bad case that leaves you fatigued for 6+ months, then the jab can't do any good.

The question is, what are the real chances of someone like Mark getting either of the above.

What's frustrating is the lack of transparent statistics on this, so that people who actually like to think about their decisions can make a choice.

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From BBC today...it's the unknown rather than the known that scares me. I also accept that statistically the vaccine probably won't harm everyone long term - but when they need to investigate 'unexpected vaginal bleeding' perhaps some humility about the fact that they don't know everything is needed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58573593

Quote

Changes to periods and unexpected vaginal bleeding after having a Covid vaccine should be investigated to reassure women, says a leading immunologist specialising in fertility.

 

Edited by JoeDavola
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4 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

I know I'll get shit here for even saying this - if you die from covid you can't get the jab later, and if you are struck down with a bad case that leaves you fatigued for 6+ months, then the jab can't do any good.

The question is, what are the real chances of someone like Mark getting either of the above.

What's frustrating is the lack of transparent statistics on this, so that people who actually like to think about their decisions can make a choice.

Its a dice roll either way. Discovering you should or shouldn't have done something needs hindsight or a time machine on standby. 

Write a pros and cons list.

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7 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

What's frustrating is the lack of transparent statistics on this, so that people who actually like to think about their decisions can make a choice.

Precisely. That's what the thread is about :)

I've seen various snippets posted by people who may or may not have vested interests.

As I look into it more I feel like I've drunk from the bottle and eaten the cake.

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Leaving everything else aside, the spike protein that the vax makes your body produce is pathogenic. Understanding this should be enough to make you want to avoid it.

If you are still in two minds, delay, delay, delay, as long as you possibly can and then some more. All the fuckery that is going on will come to light and necks are going to get stretched.

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For context

James has had existing heart issues, notably low blood pressure. I have not.

I read that in boys (I'm well past that age now), myocarditis is stated as one possible side-effect.

Is there a credible table somewhere of "everything we know up until now" regarding the effects of the vaccine and any unexpected consequences?

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Think that plenty of statistics are available... Not sure I trust any though! Try this:

"COVID-19: Fully vaccinated people made up just 1% of coronavirus deaths in England in first half of 2021, figures show | UK News | Sky News" https://news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-fully-vaccinated-people-made-up-just-1-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-england-in-first-half-of-2021-figures-show-12407019

 

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27 minutes ago, sukuinage said:

I'm pretty much in the same boat.  I don't really want to have the jab but I can see here in Germany that the things like eating out, sitting in the pub and going on holiday will become seriously restricted. I'm very pissed off with the pressure being put on as I'm not convinced that everyone being vaccinated will make any difference to the spread and I'm also not convinced that there are huge risks of catching it or suffering badly if I do.

What I'd like to know if there is a least worst jab - i.e. the one with the least side effects. Anyone got any ideas?

Things are changing very rapidly.

6 or even 3 months ago booster jabs weren't a thing, protection was robust and in the 90% range, now it is being revealed the protection drops to minimal level in a year or so.  Fauci was king of the hilled could do no wrong, now it is pretty clear to most that will open their eye that he has lied consistently  about the virus, its origin, the gain function research.  Safe and effective, not only not that effective supposedly without boosters the vaccines are clearly not safe, may still be a better option for some but not safe.

Another winter, another 6 months of being cautious on all count and there may be a lot more clarity, are 1,000's or 10,000;s of sacked medical staff who refuse to be jabbed going to keep quiet about what is really happening or otherwise  - not a chance.

 

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From what I've read, the best protection against serious symptoms is to have had Covid before.

I did have a stinking cold for 5 weeks around February last year in which the symptoms were a little unusual, particularly in the order in which they manifested. No way to know if that was Covid, or not. I assumed not. I could however have contracted it since, and barely noticed.

Do we know if the antibody tests which determine if you have previously had Covid are accurate? (My sense is that they are not)

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I haven't been vaxxed due to circumstances beyond my control. I now have the option to go and get jabbed but having waited so long I think I'll just hold on a little longer and see what happens. I have no real reason to avoid the jab but no real reason to rush off to get it. I have managed to get this far without ever being tested and only worn a mask four times since all this started (taxi rides to/from the airport and 2 flights).

I consider myself lucky to have avoided most of the downsides of this situation.

 

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SpectrumFX

Making decisions from a position of uncertainty is fascinating subject. The best way to look at it is to game it out and run through some probabilities.

The first question to ask yourself is "am I at serious risk of covid?". We're probably all going to catch it now, but some people shrug it off, some are hospitalised, and some (actually a relatively small number) die.

If the answer is yes, then taking a risk on the long term effects of the vaccine is probably worth while.

If the answer is no then I don't see a medical benefit to rushing to have it, as you're taking an unknown risk (unknown long term vaccine effects) for no immediate benefit. Obviously the longer you wait the more time there is for negative effects of the vaccine to become apparent so your final decision, if you do eventually decide to take it, is better informed.

personally I've had it because I was high risk.

 

 

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FWIW I don't buy the conspiracy theories personally, I don't have time to watch pseudo-scientific Bitchute videos by some shouty American of dubious qualification, and I'm not anti-vaccine.  If you are fit and healthy and don't have any serious  underlying health conditions then I would just "take your chances", that's what I'm doing.

If something happens in my sphere of influence such as someone I personally know being seriously ill with COVID then perhaps my view will change, but so far it hasn't affected me at all, apart from being forced to wear flimsy porous bits of blue fabric over my mouth when going shopping.

 

So I'll just carry on as I am, and see how long I can get away with it.

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sleepwello'nights
20 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

 

What's frustrating is the lack of transparent statistics on this, so that people who actually like to think about their decisions can make a choice.

The statistics are there. The reports based on their interpretation are skewed to prove whatever the reporter wants to illustrate.

  • The statistic I take more note of than any other is the total number of deaths. It is not much different to the average, so no deadly disease killing off the population.
  • Secondly the Yellow Card reports, so many adverse reactions including deaths. Far more than any other new medication in recent years and still the experiment has not been halted. Whereas other treatments with much less adverse reactions are withdrawn.
  • Thirdly the worldometer series showing more people recover from C19 than die of/with it. 
  • Finally and conclusively for me the increase in deaths and hospitalisations from countries where the "vaccination" programme is well underway.  
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