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carbohydrate-insulin model


snaga
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I'm sure the overwhelming response here will be "well duh!" but are we moving from the fringe to the mainstream? Science appears to be catching up ...

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High-glycemic foods are characterised by being quickly digested and rapidly raising blood sugar: think highly-processed carbs like white bread, white rice, as well as cakes, cookies and sweet treats. The scientists claim these types of foods cause hormonal responses that fundamentally change our metabolism, which in turn drives fat storage, weight gain and obesity.

"When we eat highly-processed carbohydrates, the body increases insulin secretion and suppresses glucagon secretion," wrote the study's authors in a press release. "This, in turn, signals fat cells to store more calories, leaving fewer calories available to fuel muscles and other metabolically active tissues. The brain perceives that the body isn’t getting enough energy, which, in turn, leads to feelings of hunger. In addition, metabolism may slow down in the body’s attempt to conserve fuel. Thus, we tend to remain hungry, even as we continue to gain excess fat."

Scientists Believe Weight Gain is Caused by What You Eat, Not How Much (msn.com)

NHS/PHE need to change to this "new" science ASAFP.

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As I mentioned on the Keto thread..  attitudes are changing.

My GP unofficially endorsed my low carb diet and does it herself (her family has a history of diabetes).

Unfortunately they still aren’t able to recommend it as formal advise because it isn’t part of the NHS guidelines.

As you say..   this needs to change,   the evidence does seem to be overwhelming.   Worse,  the official guidance/treatments actually make the problem worse not better.

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I theorise that we have two types of hunger, and often confuse the two.

Hunger for nutrients, and hunger for any old calories.

Low nutrition food won't fix the hunger for nutrients, so you'll remain hungry.

Liver, eggs, salmon, veg, very dark chocolate - you really should find it a chore going past around 800 calories of these.

Get started on the Pringles though and it's a different matter...

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2 hours ago, Stuey said:

I theorise that we have two types of hunger, and often confuse the two.

Hunger for nutrients, and hunger for any old calories.

Low nutrition food won't fix the hunger for nutrients, so you'll remain hungry.

Liver, eggs, salmon, veg, very dark chocolate - you really should find it a chore going past around 800 calories of these.

Get started on the Pringles though and it's a different matter...

I really do think many confuse thirst with hunger. Most people don't drink enough water imo. 

Down a pint of water and eat a boiled egg. Almost impossible to feel hungry after that. 

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4 hours ago, Libspero said:

As I mentioned on the Keto thread..  attitudes are changing.

My GP unofficially endorsed my low carb diet and does it herself (her family has a history of diabetes).

Unfortunately they still aren’t able to recommend it as formal advise because it isn’t part of the NHS guidelines.

As you say..   this needs to change,   the evidence does seem to be overwhelming.   Worse,  the official guidance/treatments actually make the problem worse not better.

Yes, I went to a lecture on he subject  audience was clinical staff. The doctors already know this, but have to follow the official script when advising patients.

Similar with vit d supplementation.

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steppensheep
2 hours ago, ccc said:

I really do think many confuse thirst with hunger. Most people don't drink enough water imo. 

Down a pint of water and eat a boiled egg. Almost impossible to feel hungry after that. 

Funnily enough, I've just been experimenting with trying to break the carb gorging craving by having a glass of salt water. Trying to learn to eat one biscuit rather than one packet.

 

A theory occurred to me the other day, fruit isnt ripe for very long and doesn't keep, so we're programmed to gorge on it when we find it, or it just goes to waste. Animals are available most of the year so you only eat as much as you need.

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steppensheep
4 hours ago, Libspero said:

mentioned on the Keto thread.. attitudes are changing...

There's quite a few health programs I watch on German telly, and low carb is definitely become the norm. It's amazing the about turn compared to a couple of years ago. Actually I'm a bit disappointed, I enjoyed being ahead of the game. If only I could bloody stick with it.

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I'm 3 years carnivore now and food is just fuel to me, not entertainment. As time passed, the range of food I eat dwindled. Now I have 2 meals a day, each being 1lb of burgers plus Cheddar cheese for supper. The burgers are only 95% beef so I'm eating ~17 carbs a day from the burgers and some carbs from the cheese. I'm more keto than carnivore I suppose.

Diabetes is, in effect, an allergy to sugar. Seems so stupid to keep eating lots of something that your body is allergic to.

 

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10 hours ago, steppensheep said:

Funnily enough, I've just been experimenting with trying to break the carb gorging craving by having a glass of salt water. Trying to learn to eat one biscuit rather than one packet.

 

A theory occurred to me the other day, fruit isnt ripe for very long and doesn't keep, so we're programmed to gorge on it when we find it, or it just goes to waste. Animals are available most of the year so you only eat as much as you need.

Salt water ?:o

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Carnivore, Keto, Mediterranean, Vegetarian, Vegan.

They all have one thing in common: remove the processed high-sugar low-nutrient foods.

I think that's probably where most of the health benefits of all of the above come from anyway.

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11 hours ago, steppensheep said:

Trying to learn to eat one biscuit rather than one packet.

 

all u need to do is stop buying biscuits lol

the program is to turn everyone into fat, brainwashed and now drugged asholes....actually they've been drugged up asholes for decades too, it's just that the latest round is proving to be quite dangerous lol

I disagree that attitudes are changing......the world is full o cnuts, both on the giving and receiving end :P

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steppensheep
2 hours ago, ccc said:

Salt water ?:o

Just a spoonful.in a glass. About the same concentration I take on runs. It's a lot more than the recommended daily allowance, but I get dehydrated otherwise.

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2 hours ago, JoeDavola said:

Carnivore, Keto, Mediterranean, Vegetarian, Vegan.

They all have one thing in common: remove the processed high-sugar low-nutrient foods.

I think that's probably where most of the health benefits of all of the above come from anyway.

I agree with this, and as a long term lifestyle changing diet, I find cutting out highly processed foods, flour, sugar, while treating potatoes as a treat, is far easier to maintain than some of the more restrictive diets.

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stop_the_craziness
11 hours ago, JoeDavola said:

Carnivore, Keto, Mediterranean, Vegetarian, Vegan.

They all have one thing in common: remove the processed high-sugar low-nutrient foods.

I think that's probably where most of the health benefits of all of the above come from anyway.

This is the bit that made it all click for me.  Starting to think about food in terms of what would give the most  optimised nutritional content.  All of a sudden the biscuits/crisps etc looked a very poor return on investment when you could be using those calories on other, equally tasty "treat" foods that have so many more added benefits of vitamins, minerals, antioxidants etc like nuts or berries or Greek yoghurt or crispy kale.

Edited by stop_the_craziness
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5 minutes ago, stop_the_craziness said:

This is the bit that made it all click for me.  Starting to think about food in terms of what would give the most  optimised nutritional content.  All of a sudden the biscuits/crisps etc looked a very poor return on investment when you could be using those calories on other, equally tasty "treat" foods that have so many more added benefits of vitamins, minerals, antioxidants etc like nuts or berries or Greek yoghurt or crispy kale.

Yep.

You stop seeing this junk as food once you have the mindset shift. I think @Frank Hovis mentioned having a similar outlook.

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Roger_Mellie
On 20/09/2021 at 18:47, Stuey said:

I theorise that we have two types of hunger, and often confuse the two.

Hunger for nutrients, and hunger for any old calories.

Low nutrition food won't fix the hunger for nutrients, so you'll remain hungry.

Liver, eggs, salmon, veg, very dark chocolate - you really should find it a chore going past around 800 calories of these.

Get started on the Pringles though and it's a different matter...

This is what I found when I first started doing keto - if I have carbs I can just keep shovelling them down:

Pile of rice with curry, pile of mash and loads of yorkies on a roast dinner, whole tube of pringles, packet of chocolate biscuits... Really easy to get loads of calories in and get fat. 

With a meal that's primarily protein and fat when you're full that's it, and for me an 800 calorie meal is a stretch.

Now I'm lifting, actually getting enough calories in to put weight on is a bit of a struggle - I've found myself topping my calories up at the end of the day by drinking full fat cream (lacto free, of course). 

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Hail the Tripod
On 20/09/2021 at 23:30, steppensheep said:

There's quite a few health programs I watch on German telly, and low carb is definitely become the norm.

Channel 4 are onto season 6 of “How to lose weight well”, in which every week they show 6 variations of: minimise alcohol, sugars and refined carbs.

Although I note one of the presenters got proper fucked (persistent atrial fibrillation) by Covid despite being only mid 40s.

 

Michael Mosley has done quite a few shows about intermittent fasting and low carb, with some pretty compelling presentation of the science underpinning it.

Edited by Hail the Tripod
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  • 2 weeks later...

as if we didn't need any more evidence, what happens if you inject insulin long term in the same location?

image.thumb.png.be6f81ffd0d8a90422a9c5ba7df6fb1e.png

 

 

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Van Lady
On 30/09/2021 at 17:37, snaga said:

as if we didn't need any more evidence, what happens if you inject insulin long term in the same location?

image.thumb.png.be6f81ffd0d8a90422a9c5ba7df6fb1e.png

 

 

That’s a very informative video and well worth watching. Thanks for posting.

Personally I don’t do strictly keto but eat hardly any sugar plus very low carbohydrates. Always eat butter and natural oils. Meat, veg and minimal amounts of potatoes, rice, bread, fruit etc.

For around 10 years or so I mainly only eat two meals a day because I’m not hungry. Sometimes the small meal is yogurt/local honey or bacon, black pudding, mushrooms fry up or a local baker bought brown roll with meat. Evening meals are meat, fish, veg….steak, pork/lamb chop, roast meat, salmon or homemade stew, curry, chilli type stuff.

Glad I found out that carbs/sugar are not my friend and best avoided. I do walk a lot  but believe that eating minimal carbs/sugar has kept me slim very easily.

 

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My diet is similar, not quite keto, but low carb. Though this past week I may have even been keto, unintentionally 😁

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