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Unvaccinated care staff - deadline


Frank Hovis
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The Grey Man

https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/news/hertfordshire-news/almost-1000-herts-care-home-5989735

 

News silence on this.

This was the most recent article I could find.

Silence means, in my view, the nudge nonsters are on the backfoot. Anything positive or that can be twisted is pushed. Nothing.

There is a fragile level of staffing already in this area. It does not take much of a shove to send it into crisis.

The silence might be talking volumes here.

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Lightly Toasted

Imagine how those who've buckled to the pressure (and who perhaps experience related problems) will feel if the government backs down.

Given that other jobs are available, I hope there won't be many of them.

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sancho panza
13 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

And the existing problem of bed blocking because care packages cannot be arranged in more expensive rural areas will increase so causing problems to the NHS.

Given that employers have not been able to fully staff these jobs for years and that there are now loads of jobs out there for the same or more money are they really going to be so stupid as to go through with this so creating a knowing and deliberate body blow to an already-struggling vital sector?

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/hundreds-cornwall-care-home-staff-5990147

 

This will be the end result.NHS already struggling will just collapse under the strain.All those carers keeping people/wounds clean,fed,watered,on their feet stopping work will see lots more sepsis and peolple off feet needing hospital/nursing care.

This winter will be chaos in the NHS

Edited by sancho panza
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Frank Hovis
14 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

This will be the end result.NHS already struggling will just collapse under the strain.All those carers keeping people/wounds clean,fed,watered,on their feet stopping work will see lots more sepsis and peolple off feet needing hospital/nursing care.

This winter will be chaos in the NHS

 

I heard about somebody today (in RL!!!) who needed ten carers a day in order to be discharged from hospital.  I took this to mean maybe five two person visits as she is both elderly, disabled and very overweight.  So visits need to be two persons because of lifting.

If the care agency can't cover that (at council rates) then she's back in a hospital bed.

Sacking 5% of care workers at a point where care remains, because of council payment rates, a minimum payment job when hospitality processing and agricultural jobs* are all offering much more is the action of a mentalist.

"Nobody knew that this crisis was going to happen!". 

Oh yes we did. Oh yes we did.

 

* The National Farmers’ Union has joined calls to expand the government's post-Brexit Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme, which was capped this year at 30,000 migrant workers. Producers say local people no longer want temporary work in the fields, even though good pickers can earn £20 an hour, more than double the minimum wage.

£20 an hour equates to roughly £40k a year.

Try earning that in care work.

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/workforce-shortage-threat-100m-cornish-5978339

 

 

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Yadda yadda yadda
2 hours ago, The Grey Man said:

https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/news/hertfordshire-news/almost-1000-herts-care-home-5989735

 

News silence on this.

This was the most recent article I could find.

Silence means, in my view, the nudge nonsters are on the backfoot. Anything positive or that can be twisted is pushed. Nothing.

There is a fragile level of staffing already in this area. It does not take much of a shove to send it into crisis.

The silence might be talking volumes here.

These stats exclude those who jumped before they will be pushed. Plenty of jobs out there so why wait?

Edited by Yadda yadda yadda
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The Grey Man
5 minutes ago, Yadda yadda yadda said:

These stats exclude those who jumped before they will be pushed. Plenty of jobs out there so why wait?

Exactly.

 

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Long time lurking
13 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

This is a nationwide issue but I'm hanging it off the Cornwall numbers as that's the source story.

 

In Cornwall there are roughly 400 out of 8,000 people working in care homes who will not meet the 11 November deadline for being double vaccinated.

As it has been freely available at walk in centres for months, and they have now mostly closed as numbers visiting have dwindled, it is a safe assumption that they either won't or cannot, for medical reasons, have one of the vaccines.

Note that this is only care home staff; there are also mobile carers helping people to stay in their homes via a "care package". I don't know how many but it has to be of the same order so maybe the same 8,000 with 400 unvaccinated.

If they do sack them all on 11 November then that will be a decent chunk of people now unable to stay at home and having to enter care homes that are already understaffed so may not have the places.

And the existing problem of bed blocking because care packages cannot be arranged in more expensive rural areas will increase so causing problems to the NHS.

Given that employers have not been able to fully staff these jobs for years and that there are now loads of jobs out there for the same or more money are they really going to be so stupid as to go through with this so creating a knowing and deliberate body blow to an already-struggling vital sector?

Given the levels of official madness that we have seen over the past nineteen months well maybe they just will.  They're certainly well stupid enough anyway.

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/hundreds-cornwall-care-home-staff-5990147

 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/16/carers-can-now-self-certify-covid-vaccination-exemption/

It was always nothing more that coercion and it still is

 

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Long time lurking
1 hour ago, Lightly Toasted said:

Imagine how those who've buckled to the pressure (and who perhaps experience related problems) will feel if the government backs down.

Given that other jobs are available, I hope there won't be many of them.

They done that weeks ago ,it was always nothing more than coercion just like everything else

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/16/carers-can-now-self-certify-covid-vaccination-exemption/

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Bedrag Justesen
11 minutes ago, Yadda yadda yadda said:

These stats exclude those who jumped before they will be pushed. 

This time next month almost 100% of care workers will be fully vaccinated.

This proves the policy of mandatory vaccination is a success.

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sancho panza
28 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

I heard about somebody today (in RL!!!) who needed ten carers a day in order to be discharged from hospital.  I took this to mean maybe five two person visits as she is both elderly, disabled and very overweight.  So visits need to be two persons because of lifting.

If the care agency can't cover that (at council rates) then she's back in a hospital bed.

Sacking 5% of care workers at a point where care remains, because of council payment rates, a minimum payment job when hospitality processing and agricultural jobs* are all offering much more is the action of a mentalist.

"Nobody knew that this crisis was going to happen!". 

Oh yes we did. Oh yes we did.

 

Four care visits with two carers is a standard package for someone who is bed bound or very poor on their feet.At £20 per hour per carer that's potentially between £80 or £160 per day depending on what needs doing.That's between £2400 and £4800 per month.Most likely at the lower end.

And those figures are before District nurse visits for wound dressing etc.

The issue isn't just about carer numbers per se,but also the pressure they're under.I know of one carer who has gone to work for Amazon because a few of her friends who won't be getting vaxxed are leaving.So the care homes can't necessarily rely on those left behind staying.

As you say Frank,this is an epic mess,avoidable in the main but I think Boris is about to stumble into the very trap the leftists have laid for him.

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sancho panza

@Frank Hovis

Worth noting as well,that the carers don't get fuel paid between homes they visit as I understand it and don't get paid for that time either on the whole although they might be meant to.

So it also matters where those carers work.If they're predominantly community based then the pressure on the rest will see more leave.

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Frank Hovis
2 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

@Frank Hovis

Worth noting as well,that the carers don't get fuel paid between homes they visit as I understand it and don't get paid for that time either on the whole although they might be meant to.

So it also matters where those carers work.If they're predominantly community based then the pressure on the rest will see more leave.

 

I thought that they were paid for the travel time (bar home to first and last visits) hence the council claiming "we pay £16 an hour" is so deceitful because people immediately map this onto minimum wage whereas in a  rural area for travel and parking you can halve this to £8 an hour as they only pay when you are actually with the patient - "contact time".

I don't know about mileage generally but certainly the company I helped out with paid that. As a tax free bit of income it was what made the minimum wage job worth doing.

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Lightly Toasted
13 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

@Frank Hovis

Worth noting as well,that the carers don't get fuel paid between homes they visit as I understand it and don't get paid for that time either on the whole although they might be meant to.

So it also matters where those carers work.If they're predominantly community based then the pressure on the rest will see more leave.

This is from the article that @The Masked Tulip posted earlier:

As well as offering good rates of pay, staff will be paid to travel between calls and will receive 45p per mile for car costs.

That's council recruitment though, maybe private/agency is less generous.

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sancho panza
49 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

I thought that they were paid for the travel time (bar home to first and last visits) hence the council claiming "we pay £16 an hour" is so deceitful because people immediately map this onto minimum wage whereas in a  rural area for travel and parking you can halve this to £8 an hour as they only pay when you are actually with the patient - "contact time".

I don't know about mileage generally but certainly the company I helped out with paid that. As a tax free bit of income it was what made the minimum wage job worth doing.

I think it depends on who you work for.Carers are meant to receive pay whilst on all jobs and in between jobs.However,it doesn't always work out like that.There are lots of gaps in the regulation of the agencies.

Sometimes the person they care for needs more than the half hour booked.

This is how it's meant to be

https://www.unison.org.uk/care-workers-your-rights/

However,this sounds more realistic,from 2019

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jan/29/care-workers-cut-short-home-visits-travel-time

Jean Sewell, says she can have up to a dozen visits a day. They are typically half an hour’s journey apart, if travelling by public transport, or 15 minutes by car. As each of her visits is supposed to last 30 to 60 minutes, with the travel time on top, Sewell says she has to curtail some visits in order to get round to everyone to see all her clients.

Like many care workers, Sewell is in a precarious financial situation. Although on the face of it, she earns a reasonable £9.15 an hour for the time she spends with care users, she receives no holiday pay and is on a zero-hours contract. And because the company she works for doesn’t pay her travel time, Sewell says in reality she takes home around £7 an hour.

Sewell’s situation is all too common. New figures published this week show that more than half of councils do not insist that their homecare providers pay travel time. According to freedom of information requests by public sector union Unison, 54% of local authorities do not make it a contractual condition that the care agencies they commission pay their care workers for the time spent travelling between visits. That means many homecare staff end up earning less than the government’s £7.83 an hour minimum wage for over-25s, rebranded in 2015 as the “national living wage”. Although the minimum hourly pay for over-25s will rise to £8.21 from April 2019, it’s still a lot less than the Living Wage Foundation’s real living wage, which is £10.55 an hour in London and £9 an hour for those working outside the capital.

The Care Act 2014 requires councils to ensure care agencies pay staff the national living wage, including “appropriate remuneration for any time spent travelling between appointments”. But what constitutes an appropriate level of pay for travel is not stipulated. However, it is illegal for care workers’ overall daily pay, including travel time, to amount to less than the minimum wage.

“Many companies do not abide by minimum wage laws, and even those paid extra by councils to remunerate care workers for travel time simply do not do so,” says Matt Egan, a national officer for Unison. Even when local authorities do require providers to pay care staff for travel time, many do not check this is actually happening. “Some councils are putting it in the contract and asking care providers whether they’re complying with the requirement to pay care workers for their travel time without actually checking payslips or carrying out workforce surveys,” says Egan.

The findings underline previous research by the union last August which found that nearly two-thirds of care workers are only paid for their contact time, not the time spent travelling between appointments. Even when councils do pay travel time, it is often not enough. Many pay for just 10 minutes’ travel time, when, according to the UK Homecare Association, care workers spend 11.7 minutes per hour of their working day travelling. Homecare staff say that is a significant underestimate..

Tanya Foster, another Careline worker from the Tameside area, says it takes at least 15 minutes, and probably more, to walk between visits. Journeys by car or public transport take even longer. “In an ideal world the care calls would all be close together but they’re not,” she says. That means she and her colleagues end up being routinely late. Tameside council refused to comment on these specific claims, but did say it pays contractors for travel time. A spokesman says: “Our care workers are allocated 10.8 minutes of travel time per hour. We use smaller teams working in smaller areas to cut down on travel time.” The council also says that from April 2019, it will be paying providers £17.20 per hour and will require providers to pay care staff at least £9 per hour. In addition, it has introduced a new “support at home” model where care workers will support the individual to achieve their outcomes, not for a specified time.

Some care users are taking matters into their own hands. Maggie Derwent, who has a degenerative condition, says her care workers “would turn up late and leave early so they could make up their travel time, so they could be paid for it, so to speak”. Cleaning tasks were abandoned. So she changed her care company and now reimburses the care workers for their mileage. Her care workers need to drive, as public transport in her area of rural Sussex is inadequate. “You’re very aware they’re under pressure,” she says. “You’re always feeling a bit insecure in this climate as to what’s going to be given and what’s going to be taken away from you.”

Some local authorities are bucking the trend: Cornwall county council stipulates that all care staff are paid the Living Wage Foundation’s minimum rates, while at Newham council in east London, travel time pay is included as a contractual condition. This is monitored during visits and at quarterly meetings, and included in the annual performance review.

From April, companies will have a legal duty to list the hours their employees work. But campaigners want more regulatory and legal intervention. “We want the Care Quality Commission to be given power to inspect how local authorities commission care, for HMRC to carry out spot checks of care provider’s payroll records and, overall, for greater transparency of how care fees cover contact time, travel time, sleep-ins and assumed profit margins,” says Egan.

 

39 minutes ago, Lightly Toasted said:

This is from the article that @The Masked Tulip posted earlier:

As well as offering good rates of pay, staff will be paid to travel between calls and will receive 45p per mile for car costs.

That's council recruitment though, maybe private/agency is less generous.

The assumption there is that they know how to claim mileage back and that they are classed as self employed to be able to do so.

Like you say,anyone working directly for the council will be on a decent wage.My expereince where I work is that they're virtually all agency

Edited by sancho panza
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sancho panza
47 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

I thought that they were paid for the travel time (bar home to first and last visits) hence the council claiming "we pay £16 an hour" is so deceitful because people immediately map this onto minimum wage whereas in a  rural area for travel and parking you can halve this to £8 an hour as they only pay when you are actually with the patient - "contact time".

I don't know about mileage generally but certainly the company I helped out with paid that. As a tax free bit of income it was what made the minimum wage job worth doing.

Worth noting as ever,the agency will get £20 an hour,the carer probably circa £10 or less.

Edited by sancho panza
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PaulParanoia

Obviously I think it's disgraceful that carers are going to be sacked for not being vaxxed.  From hero's to zeros in less than a year.  If they go through with the sackings it's going to cause carnage in the NHS as others have said.  The obvious way to fix it is higher wages.  A friends ex missus went for an interview for a carer position at a home yesterday.  They were offering to pay minimum wage for 2 16 hour shifts per week.  She's better off staying on full non-working benefits.  No one who's concerned about taking the vaccines is going to get injected for minimum wage.  As usual, Covid trumps all other concerns no matter the knock-on effects.

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Yadda yadda yadda
7 minutes ago, PaulParanoia said:

Obviously I think it's disgraceful that carers are going to be sacked for not being vaxxed.  From hero's to zeros in less than a year.  If they go through with the sackings it's going to cause carnage in the NHS as others have said.  The obvious way to fix it is higher wages.  A friends ex missus went for an interview for a carer position at a home yesterday.  They were offering to pay minimum wage for 2 16 hour shifts per week.  She's better off staying on full non-working benefits.  No one who's concerned about taking the vaccines is going to get injected for minimum wage.  As usual, Covid trumps all other concerns no matter the knock-on effects.

It is the vaccine that trumps all other concerns, they couldn't care less about covid in care homes.

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King Penda
On 30/09/2021 at 09:31, Frank Hovis said:

 

The direct answer is each council paying significantly more money per week / per contact hour so that care workers can be paid more and see it as a desirable career.

 

This of course needs to be paid for by someone.

My suggestions are:

Double Council Tax on second homes and unoccupied properties,

Big annual licensing fee for all holiday homes and Air BnB,

And that a big axe be taken to working tax credits.

Most community carers are on uc .it’s one of the easiest ways to get the bare minimum hours .when I was maning the out of hours phone no one would do any extra hours if someone rang in sick.

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King Penda
11 hours ago, sancho panza said:

@Frank Hovis

Worth noting as well,that the carers don't get fuel paid between homes they visit as I understand it and don't get paid for that time either on the whole although they might be meant to.

So it also matters where those carers work.If they're predominantly community based then the pressure on the rest will see more leave.

90% pay mileage and apparently more are paying travelling time now .

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Yadda yadda yadda
46 minutes ago, King Penda said:

Most community carers are on uc .it’s one of the easiest ways to get the bare minimum hours .when I was maning the out of hours phone no one would do any extra hours if someone rang in sick.

What happens to UC if you phone in sick and don't make your weekly hours?

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King Penda
7 minutes ago, Yadda yadda yadda said:

What happens to UC if you phone in sick and don't make your weekly hours?

No idea if I’m honest but in community care you could make it up the week after very easily it’s based over a month 

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Frank Hovis

Javid doubling down.

I'm surprised as he usually has his head screwed on correctly.

Maybe he's been jabbed.

Anyway the government continues to match the Care sector and the NHS into an entirely avoidable crisis.

They had better hope that this isn't a bad 'flu winter.

 

Covid: Care home staff should get the jab or another job - Javid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58772786

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Yadda yadda yadda
3 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Javid doubling down.

I'm surprised as he usually has his head screwed on correctly.

Maybe he's been jabbed.

Anyway the government continues to match the Care sector and the NHS into an entirely avoidable crisis.

They had better hope that this isn't a bad 'flu winter.

 

Covid: Care home staff should get the jab or another job - Javid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58772786

If it falls apart it justifies "plan b" vaccine passports. Double bonus of increasing private medical use and undermining the NHS.

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Dogtania
12 minutes ago, Yadda yadda yadda said:

If it falls apart it justifies "plan b" vaccine passports. Double bonus of increasing private medical use and undermining the NHS.

Agreed, every policy or move by the government is not related to logic or 'science' at this point.  Or if it is it's by chance, the only thing that is going on imo is moving forward through a carefully pre-planned script.  

Looking at other countries it's quite obvious we are not the only ones and this is a global effort.

The nonsense about 'following the science' is bogus, it's all about the plan of vaccines and vaccine passports.  Whilst the end goal is unknown and things like depopulation, eugenics etc are all speculation.... It's not so speculative to see the road to that goal is greasing lots of wheels (keeping pharma in the money, top players -polos primarily- the world over incentivised) and the mother of all psychological operation/ propaganda/ nudge unit extreme being rolled out.  

More speculative but slightly less rabbit holed (than depop/eugenics) is seeing the promise of total control of the world population through data, monitoring, global passport scheme - all with far reaching scope to control every facet of ones life China style....

... The green team can be promised a better environment for nature and the planet in general.

... The oligarchs can be promised increased profit and power

... The left (liberals?) are carroted with the promise of a more financially fair society, 'equality' and 'diversity' and 'unity'

And the governments -who seem to be simply puppets imo and infiltrated as such by the likes of the WEF wunderkind (savid being one)- are simply doing the bidding as globally directed.

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