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Defined Benefit Pension Transfer


RWJ
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I've spent the morning speaking to 10 pension advisors, trying to get them to take on a transfer from a defined benefit scheme and I've now more or less given up as nobody wants to touch it.  Reasons given - I am under 50, they don't get out of bed for less than £200k or they simply don't deal with db.

Having read through the most recent guidance published by FCA, I see no mention of age restrictions.  I can't figure out why the reluctance.  It's a few grand for them to ask me some questions and fill out the necessary forms.  They can even advise against, which would remove any risk from them.

https://www.fca.org.uk/publication/finalised-guidance/fg21-3.pdf

What a shit situation.  FCA mandates qualified advice required over £30k transfer value but none of them will provide it, leaving me up a dead end.

The pension is a paltry £2300 per year from age 60 or £140k to get out now.  

 

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Chewing Grass
2 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I've spent the morning speaking to 10 pension advisors, trying to get them to take on a transfer from a defined benefit scheme and I've now more or less given up as nobody wants to touch it.  Reasons given - I am under 50, they don't get out of bed for less than £200k or they simply don't deal with db.

Having read through the most recent guidance published by FCA, I see no mention of age restrictions.  I can't figure out why the reluctance.  It's a few grand for them to ask me some questions and fill out the necessary forms.  They can even advise against, which would remove any risk from them.

https://www.fca.org.uk/publication/finalised-guidance/fg21-3.pdf

What a shit situation.  FCA mandates qualified advice required over £30k transfer value but none of them will provide it, leaving me up a dead end.

The pension is a paltry £2300 per year from age 60 or £140k to get out now.  

 

That in a nutshell is what's wrong with the Pensions system, if there is no money in it, they are not interested, in reality all that is needed is a disclaimer form to be filled in as even a 50K pot (which is the average) is effectively worthless.

If you are moving it to another Pension scheme it should be that simple.

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Frank Hovis

Have you tried Pensionhelp; they're somewhere up north, Manchester maybe.

A colleague recommended them after they dealt with his early retirement and I used them for a review though ultimately I decided against any DB transfers though they had recommended one.

At that time it was a flat fee of £2k for the advice though I think that was going to be replaced by a percentage; which I think would have also applied to any transfer I made.

I was happy with the fee because I had heard of private sector DB pensions being given lottery win transfer values and wanted to know if I could get one; I didn't and am going to leave my DBs as DBs so it's only going to be how to put my DCs into my SIPP rather than buying an annuity.

That's over ten years off though and I'm hoping that there will be more sensible rules by then.

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1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

Have you tried Pensionhelp; they're somewhere up north, Manchester maybe.

They were on my list Frank as you gave me their details a couple of years back.  They won't deal with <£200k.

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Frank Hovis
Just now, RWJ said:

They were on my list Frank as you gave me their details a couple of years back.  They won't deal with <£200k.

That's ridiculous.

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On 20/10/2021 at 11:46, RWJ said:

I've spent the morning speaking to 10 pension advisors, trying to get them to take on a transfer from a defined benefit scheme and I've now more or less given up as nobody wants to touch it.  Reasons given - I am under 50, they don't get out of bed for less than £200k or they simply don't deal with db.

Having read through the most recent guidance published by FCA, I see no mention of age restrictions.  I can't figure out why the reluctance.  It's a few grand for them to ask me some questions and fill out the necessary forms.  They can even advise against, which would remove any risk from them.

https://www.fca.org.uk/publication/finalised-guidance/fg21-3.pdf

What a shit situation.  FCA mandates qualified advice required over £30k transfer value but none of them will provide it, leaving me up a dead end.

The pension is a paltry £2300 per year from age 60 or £140k to get out now.  

 

I’m in pretty much the same position, last IFA I spoke to said no chance before 55 

Be interested to hear if you find someone who will do the transfer 

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10 hours ago, Malthus said:

I’m in pretty much the same position, last IFA I spoke to said no chance before 55 

Be interested to hear if you find someone who will do the transfer 

I'll let you know how I get on when I try again in 5 years :)

Some comfort that at least my db pension is inflation adjusted each year (capped at 5%).  I thought that only happened post-retirement but after some digging I see it's pre-retirement too.    

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10 hours ago, RWJ said:

I'll let you know how I get on when I try again in 5 years :)

Some comfort that at least my db pension is inflation adjusted each year (capped at 5%).  I thought that only happened post-retirement but after some digging I see it's pre-retirement too.    

Well lets hope you remain fit and healthy, that way in five years time they may offer you more to transfer as your life expectancy [and so their liability] would have increased over your cohort.

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DurhamBorn

I did one last year,but had to lie about everything to the point i told them i had had cancer as if that year when it was actually 20 years ago.Still said no,but winked through insistent client.Minute money arrived i launched a transfer on them into my SIPP.They werent happy that i changed from an oily dumb factory worker on borrowed time happy to accept their 2.2% annual free for pretty much putting you in a Vanguard 40/60 set up to someone who knew exactly what they were doing.

I didnt get my partners done though as the IFA she was going to use wouldnt do it until she was 50.Thats due to the insurance they have to have.PPI i think you call it.Now no chance of getting it done because all platforms have stopped accepting insistent clients,so you need a yes and thats a tiny chance.

There are two ways to get a yes.First have final salary somewhere else that added to state pension covers all your needs.Easier for an IFA to justify then.

The 2nd is ill health so you will peg before getting the pension,or much off it.Im not sure if they check.Mine was a big firm and i just made it up and they didnt check.Regs dont seem to require them to.

Its a shocking situation,and although IFAs are fees sucking venom,its not their fault,its the regulator stuffing over everyone to save the odd idiot,usually Welsh steel workers,from doing a transfer and investing the lot in dodgy property in the Congo or pink diamonds etc.

Edited by DurhamBorn
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5 hours ago, DurhamBorn said:

I did one last year,but had to lie about everything to the point i told them i had had cancer as if that year when it was actually 20 years ago.Still said no,but winked through insistent client.Minute money arrived i launched a transfer on them into my SIPP.They werent happy that i changed from an oily dumb factory worker on borrowed time happy to accept their 2.2% annual free for pretty much putting you in a Vanguard 40/60 set up to someone who knew exactly what they were doing.

I didnt get my partners done though as the IFA she was going to use wouldnt do it until she was 50.Thats due to the insurance they have to have.PPI i think you call it.Now no chance of getting it done because all platforms have stopped accepting insistent clients,so you need a yes and thats a tiny chance.

There are two ways to get a yes.First have final salary somewhere else that added to state pension covers all your needs.Easier for an IFA to justify then.

The 2nd is ill health so you will peg before getting the pension,or much off it.Im not sure if they check.Mine was a big firm and i just made it up and they didnt check.Regs dont seem to require them to.

Its a shocking situation,and although IFAs are fees sucking venom,its not their fault,its the regulator stuffing over everyone to save the odd idiot,usually Welsh steel workers,from doing a transfer and investing the lot in dodgy property in the Congo or pink diamonds etc.

I remember reading elsewhere you instructed a SIPP transfer the day they received the funds and they weren't best pleased xD  I learnt from that not to reveal my hand.... let them think they'd be managing it, when in reality I would also be straight to SIPP. 

I also told them I'd be happy to be classed as an insistent client, which is specifically addressed in the FCA guidance, if they advised against but still not interested.

I'm wondering if they'll struggle to fund these pensions with high inflation baked in and I'm not surprised they're offering generous terms to get out, capping their liability now.  Maybe we'll see a relaxation of the guidelines to save these schemes.    

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7 hours ago, RWJ said:

Maybe we'll see a relaxation of the guidelines to save these schemes. 

Agree, when their `mates` start lobbying and/or we have a spectacular default by a DB provider that has to be covered by the insurance scheme, then they will allow a relaxation and `cage` it as "We DB holders should be treated like adults and bla bla bla".

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RWJ, I used the SippClub couple years back. They act as introducers, you supply them some details using their online form, and they then refer you to a relevant transfer company (mine was Eadon & co.) that do the actual pension transfer. Sippclub don't charge, but my pension transfer company charged me 2% of my pension transfer value, which i considered Ok (kicker for me was they had just doubled their rates because their indemnity insurance cover had increased, but wouldn't know current costs).                                    I would only add that initially my transfer company did also want to manage my pension as part of their standard management service and they 'acted dumb' when I said I didn't want this to happen. However, I simply contacted Brian Bennis at SippClub (its founder) and he sorted the issue out for me very same day, with the transfer company emailing me a confirmation that they were happy to proceed on a 'transfer only' basis. I mention this not to raise any alarm but to show that imo SippClub run a good service and are also there for backup/advise if you need them.                                                      Good luck, let me know how you get on.                                                                                  https://sippclub.com/why-a-final-salary-transfer-could-be-best-now/

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I tried transferring mine about 5 years ago and it would have happened and cost me 3K. In the end I bottled it and possibly good thing as I was completely clueless and they would have put the money in who-knows-what with mystery fees to the max.

Explored it again about 6 months ago and totally different landscape.  The few that would look at it wanted insane amount of money. Gave up.

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6 hours ago, JMD said:

RWJ, I used the SippClub couple years back. They act as introducers, you supply them some details using their online form, and they then refer you to a relevant transfer company (mine was Eadon & co.) that do the actual pension transfer. Sippclub don't charge, but my pension transfer company charged me 2% of my pension transfer value, which i considered Ok (kicker for me was they had just doubled their rates because their indemnity insurance cover had increased, but wouldn't know current costs).                                    I would only add that initially my transfer company did also want to manage my pension as part of their standard management service and they 'acted dumb' when I said I didn't want this to happen. However, I simply contacted Brian Bennis at SippClub (its founder) and he sorted the issue out for me very same day, with the transfer company emailing me a confirmation that they were happy to proceed on a 'transfer only' basis. I mention this not to raise any alarm but to show that imo SippClub run a good service and are also there for backup/advise if you need them.                                                      Good luck, let me know how you get on.                                                                                  https://sippclub.com/why-a-final-salary-transfer-could-be-best-now/

This looks promising@JMD.  I will speak to them.  Nice website that with all the key details laid out step by step, which is pleasure after hunting through my provider's site.

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Democorruptcy

I managed a transfer in 2019 but I think it's got harder to do since then due to FCA meddling. Someone on here tried my IFA since and was turned down.

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9 minutes ago, Democorruptcy said:

I managed a transfer in 2019 but I think it's got harder to do since then due to FCA meddling. Someone on here tried my IFA since and was turned down.

I wasn't expecting it to be this difficult.  Call back this morning from a local IFA who wasn't available last week - "nobody will touch you before 55".  

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Democorruptcy
14 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I wasn't expecting it to be this difficult.  Call back this morning from a local IFA who wasn't available last week - "nobody will touch you before 55".  

I'll ask my IFA about that and let you know.

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On 26/10/2021 at 23:47, RWJ said:

This looks promising@JMD.  I will speak to them.  Nice website that with all the key details laid out step by step, which is pleasure after hunting through my provider's site.

RWJ, just wanted to add that if you do go ahead and if you did get recommended to use Eadon to handle the pension transfer, please be aware that when undertaking mine Eadon didn't hit the transfer deadline date (despite me chasing them), which meant having to go back to my pension provider to obtain a second 'guaranteed transfer valuation'. In fact I benefitted by receiving a (much larger as it turned out!) increased valuation, so was all good for me and as I said earlier I was very happy with the Sipp Club operation. But just wanted to give you all the details in case you wanted to make use of a different transfer company if that option was available. I believe Sipp Club have access to several transfer companies.

Edited by JMD
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