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SpectrumFX

The Westernisation of Islam

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As a counter to our Islamisation of Europe thread I thought I'd start one about the possibility of Westernisation of the Islamic world.

Is reformation possible?

I used to think no, but recent moves in Saudi have given me pause for thought.

1. They're going to let women drive 

xD

2. A woman has been appointed to a senior government post for the first time

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuters/article-4926396/amp/Saudi-woman-named-senior-government-post-time.html

Is this evidence of significant potential for future reform?

Am I clutching at straws?

Edited by SpectrumFX

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Wahabiism seems to be the method chosen by the Saudi regime to control their population so whilst there may be some token changes, I don't think their religious police will be retired any time soon. To do so risks an uprising and some choppy choppy for the Saudi family.

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Prominent women in Islam tend to be tokens - many give me the impression that they think that they are special. That somehow they will be thought of better than all the other 'little women'. I think this also plays a huge part in various Western women, in politics and the media, being pro Islam - they are hoping to find that special position for themselves.

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What Saudi women are not allowed to do, from the indi:

Marry

Permission to marry must be granted by your wali, or guardian. Women who seek to marry foreigners must obtain approval to do by the ministry of interior, and marriage to non-Muslims is so difficult as to be impossible. 

Open a bank account

While there are now a few jobs women in the Kingdom are allowed to do without male permission, such as working as shop assistants or at fairgrounds, they are not allowed to have their own bank account to control their finances without permission. 

Get a fair trial

The testimony of a woman is only worth half a man’s in Saudi Arabia’s legal system. Women also only receive half the inheritance their brothers are entitled to. 

Travel

Passports and identification cards must be obtained with the permission of a male guardian. Women are usually also not allowed to leave the home alone. 

Dress how they want

“Dressing for beauty” is illegal, and modest clothing and make up encouraged. 

Full length abayas - a long coat worn over other clothes - must be worn by all women in public, although in recent years rules over the colour, decoration and how headscarves are worn have  been relaxed. 

Interact with men 

Conversations and time spent with men who are not family members is limited. In public, restaurants, universities and other spaces have both a ‘family’ section and a section reserved for men. 

Seek important medical treatment

Even life-saving operations and procedures require the written signature of a male relative. 

Have custody of children

In cases of divorce, women are only allowed custody of their children until they reach the age of seven (boys) and nine (girls).

misogyny at its very best.  The UK should not have any dealings with a country that treats half its citizens in such a discriminatory way.    

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15 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

Prominent women in Islam tend to be tokens - many give me the impression that they think that they are special. That somehow they will be thought of better than all the other 'little women'. I think this also plays a huge part in various Western women, in politics and the media, being pro Islam - they are hoping to find that special position for themselves.

When we get a trans person in a prominent position in Saudi, we can revisit this thread (and probably sound the death knell for their society). 

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17 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

They have oil, and money(which is probably funnelled into our political parties via City launderers), and buy our weapons. Therefore they are our friends. Get with the programme. o.O

They have also been allowed to buy up vast swathes of the country  

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The Arab Spring unleashed a lot of problems for the West, despite being heralded as a new dawn by the So-Called BBC et al at the time, it will only be amplified if the rest of the Arab World and Saudi go the same way... Let's hope not!

Do you really want these Wahabbists claiming asylum in Germany and the UK? Mad Merkel and Treason May will embrace them with open arms.

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1 hour ago, SpectrumFX said:

 

2. A woman has been appointed to a senior government post for the first time

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuters/article-4926396/amp/Saudi-woman-named-senior-government-post-time.html

Is this evidence of significant potential for future reform?

Am I clutching at straws?

So that's whats wrong with our damn western politics!

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7 hours ago, SpectrumFX said:

As a counter to our Islamisation of Europe thread I thought I'd start one about the possibility of Westernisation of the Islamic world.

Is reformation possible?

I used to think no, but recent moves in Saudi have given me pause for thought.

1. They're going to let women drive 

xD

2. A woman has been appointed to a senior government post for the first time

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuters/article-4926396/amp/Saudi-woman-named-senior-government-post-time.html

Is this evidence of significant potential for future reform?

Am I clutching at straws?

Well from what i can remember/read Afghanistan was well on the way until Russia decide it was not with in their interests and invade replacing the reformist leader with a hilly billy ...i have never worked out what that war was all about ...my guess is Russia wanted some sort of hinterland on it`s border rather than a country that`s striving to modernize/westernise  ..and then you had/have our war with Afganastan ....i be fucked if i believe that was all about 9/11

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.

Quote

A woman has been appointed to a senior government post for the first time

A male secretly self identified as a female?

It's quite possible that that's what the whole self identification thing is all about.  

Trust those making the rules - no thank you very much.

Edited by twocents

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I get the impression the lifting of the driving ban is simple economic expediency- the big fall in the price of oil has squeezed their finances considerably, and they can no longer afford to employ drivers to ferry women and children about. If it is that, then I daresay the next stage will be to relax the rules on what jobs women can do, if they succeed in diversifying the economy away from oil.

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47 minutes ago, Rave said:

I get the impression the lifting of the driving ban is simple economic expediency- the big fall in the price of oil has squeezed their finances considerably, and they can no longer afford to employ drivers to ferry women and children about. If it is that, then I daresay the next stage will be to relax the rules on what jobs women can do, if they succeed in diversifying the economy away from oil.

LOL, I worked in the Middle East and they were always talking about what they were going to do after oil. They think tourism will take over from oil...

Everyone should form an orderly queue for visiting a region that is unbearably hot for 6 months of the year, where alcohol is frowned upon,  that's a relatively long plane ride away and that's infamous for terrorism.

IMHO, the only reason Dubai has a tourist industry is that the Government gives the airline cheap fuel so that Dubai is a transit hub.

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On 9/28/2017 at 13:06, swissy_fit said:

They have oil, and money(which is probably funnelled into our political parties via City launderers), and buy our weapons. Therefore they are our friends. Get with the programme. o.O

Some of those weapons also likely being funnelled back into the eu and then on to the UK possibly via the NGO boats which are apparently smuggling illegal immigrants and also likely trafficking ISIS supporters into the eu to use those guns if not right now then sometime in the future. 

They are our friends of course.

Edited by twocents

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9 minutes ago, twocents said:

Some of those weapons also likely being funnelled back into the eu and then on to the UK possibly via the NGO boats which are apparently smuggling illegal immigrants and also likely trafficking ISIS supporters into the eu to use those guns if not right now then sometime in the future. 

They are our friends of course.

When ISIS attack Birmingham* in their Hawker Hunter attack jet, I will come back to this thread and acclaim your genius and foresight...

*Other shitholes are also available.

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